Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Survey - 41 RM vs 44 Sp in Blackhawk

Had my share of ear splitting 357’s and wrist snapping 44 mag loads - often in a 4” 29 though 10.5 Unique under a 240 SWC at 1050 flattens deer. Seems the new flat top special is a bit more svelte from my understanding. Had 7.5 SBH, 10” TC that was hell on 100 yd rams and loved 180’s at 1910 (Federal). 200’s around 1200 were mild in my 629’s I had and good for offhand jugs at 100 and 150yds back in those days. Noslers over 110/296. In 657’s - Shot my share of 215’s over Unique and Universal Clays and 210 JSP/JHP over 110/296. Always enjoyed those flinch free vs full Keith loads which looked like a grenade going off in a 4” 29.

So I’m figuring a Special would be about right at 1000-1200. Not after bear. Now the 250 in 41 is not one I’ve used. That can be a game changer with a wide meplat WC. No doubt a 45 is larger but if not using on game, does it give more ‘splash’ effect than the slightly smaller bores?

I agree on the short bbl for packing. Never owned a 5.5 but they balance well inc the 22’s.

Good stuff guys! I do know a bud had an old model 41 BH with old Alloy frame, it was very handy. Too bad the new models in SS are heavier. Perhaps an Alloy frame is plenty sufficient. Idk.

I have all three and the .44 SPL is what I carry most.

CrowRifle, tell me about your SPL and what loads you prefer if you don't mind.

Folks, not being "in the know" of the 44 Sp, I would be interested in hearing about the loads you use - if you care to share. What bullets/powders/speeds are you running?

On the 250 load for the 41 - what powders are you guys using? Assuming 110/296 and 2400, but maybe that's old school?

Thanks all.

the original post was about 41rm vs. 44special.
keep in mind .41magnum is .410
44 is .429
not a lot of difference there.
i think all of it for most practical purposes is a 200plus grain bullet at about 1000 fps for working purposes, and 41mag, 44sp, 44mag 45colt will all do that.
I own all three.
my favorite is 41magnum, i can down load easily for popcorn loads, or run them pretty darn hot.
there is a lot of range there between 170 grain up to 300grain. sticking a 250grain 41 mag bullet next to a 44mag 250 grain, they look the same.
as to the powders, i have used a lot of them, but as my enabler says, unique covers most situations or 2400.
I have a box of 41mag powdered coated 250 grain hollowpoints sitting on my desk right now. Awesome.
I don't often run any of these loads at the firewall. There is a lot of overlap at 1000fps, and 250grains. The differences are splitting hairs.
i like 44special, in fact more than 44magnum. But you have to push a 44special to get those loads up there, a 41magnum is designed for heavier loads.

'Nother vote for the 44 special in a Ruger flattop.

I've owned .44 mags, .41 mags, and .45 Colt handguns.

The 4-5/8" flattop .44 special is my all time favorite.

Virgil B.

At the time I bought this Flattop in 44 spl. Brian Pierce wrote an article on loading for it. Very informative -- maybe you can locate it.
I use 2400 for the fastest loads and Power Pistol for all others.

I get 1080 fps with a 255 grain hardcast.

Accuracy winner is 200 XTP over PP, but most loads/bullets shoot very well. Shooting a lot of high pressure loads wears on my knuckle a bit.

H110/W296 Whatever it takes to fill the case to the base of the bullet. In my situation with my seating depth it is 20.0 gr with my 250 cast. The bullet sits just a couple 1/1000s inside the chamber on the 657, easily fits in the SBH, and extends well past the cylinder face on the Taurus Tracker. ETA Let me correct that. I just looked. The cylinder is the same length on the 657 and the SBH. The bullet just fits inside the chamber on either.

But the Tracker is the Titanium model and I am not tough enough to shoot a 250 in it anyway.

As Ron stated our mutual Friend also recommended Unique to me to start with. But I have moved away from it, as at the pressure levels I was using it {ultralight charge weights) it was leaving a lot of carbon at the muzzle and on the cylinder face.

I use Universal and Titegroup for 650 - 750 fps loads with 165, 170, and 210 gr bullets. Then SR 4756, HS-6, and Blue Dot for 1000 to 1100 fps load levels 165, 170, and 210 gr bullets.

You can do some amazing things with the 170 Sierra JHC. The Sierra manual shows it to 1450 fps with H110 or SR 4756.

Basically I have the equivalent of a 38spl or 357 on the light end and on the heavy end it is nearly equivalent to the 44 mag.

In the Flat Top the .44 Special is hard to beat...it does everything well without a lot of extra weight or recoil. A friend has a FA 97/4.25", stainless Flat Top 4 5/8" and a blue Bisley Flat Top 5.5"... I have shot all of them and they are all great... Personally I like the FA as the grip fits me better than the XR3 or Bisley gripframes...

https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/ross-seyfried-lipseys-ruger-flattop-44-special-bisley-revolvers/

http://www.goodrichfamilyassoc.org/44_Special_Articles/

Back in the 1980s I was a big .44 Special shooter...had all six of the S&W 24s/624s...but sold them all off as I found the .41 Magnum suited my needs better than the .44s...

As to which barrel length, 4 5/8s or 5.5...I was a big 4 5/8s guy for many years...sold them all off and ended up keeping the 5.5-6.5" guns...do have one FA 97/4.25" .41 Magnum left but is the hardest gun I have to shoot well....

Powder wise...Unique and H110 are about all I use in the .41s. I do have one Blue Dot load I use in the FA 97 with 165-180 cast bullets...puts them out of the short barrel over 1300 fps...recoil is modest. 250s with 20.0 grains of H110 run 1305 and will get ones attention when they go off in the little 97...

Bob

If you don't mind me butting in, here are some excerpts of posts I made 5 years ago about loads worked up in two different Ruger .44 Specials:
****************************************

Looking back over my old targets and notes, these are from two different Ruger .44 Spl Flattops, one 4 5/8" and one 5 1/2".

Lyman 429244 245 gr. SWC gas check - 7.0 gr. 231 gave 947 fps.

Oregon Trail 200 gr. RNFP - 6.0 231 gave 860 fps, 7.0 231 gave 966 fps.

Lyman 429421 245 SWC - 6.0 231 gave 835 fps, 7.0 231 gave 931 fps

So I'd say 6.0 grains should give you what you want. That much 231 doesn't take up much room in the case so it is kind of position sensitive, you will get a bit better groups holding the revolver muzzle up to position it back against the primer before each shot. My groups show vertical stringing if I didn't do that with that minimal load.

I have a lot of groups with 231 but only the above were chronographed. It looks like accuracy for my two revolvers really came in the 6.5 to 7.5 grain range, but that could be due to the hardness of my alloy requiring more pressure to obdurate well.

*******************************************************
For a very mild load 6.3 grains of Trail Boss and a 200 grain RNFP (or any shape of 200 grain bullet) , standard large pistol primers The lower weight bullet cuts recoil considerably. This load has proven accurate in two Ruger Flattop .44 Specials. The 200 RNFP may be a bit harder to find than the normal 240 grain cast bullets but IIRC Oregon Trail makes them in the 500 bulk pack.

********************************************************

But 2400 does have a nice feature in that you can load it down some and it will maintain its accuracy. I have seen this across the .357, .41 Magnum, .44 Special, .44 Magnum and .45 Colt.

The Keith load is 17.5 grains of 2400 under his 250 cast 429421. I have a 4 5/8" .44 Flattop and worked up from 14 to 16 grains and got good accuracy at each level, this was using that same 429421 bullet. Only chronographed them once but got the following results:
14.0 2400 - 977 fps
15.0 2400 - 1058 fps
16.0 2400 - 1126 fps

As you can see, 14.0 to 15.0 grains gives a decent mid to upper mid-range velocity. I never went above 16.0 as recoil got to be more than what I bought a .44 Special for.

Looking back over my targets, if I had to really recommend one level it would be 15.0 grains as those groups were a bit better overall than at 14 grains and velocity and recoil still was acceptable for extended shooting.


*****************

Hope these help some.

RJM,

Thanks for the links, a treasure trove of information!

[quote=RJM]In the Flat Top the .44 Special is hard to beat...it does everything well without a lot of extra weight or recoil. A friend has a FA 97/4.25", stainless Flat Top 4 5/8" and a blue Bisley Flat Top 5.5"... I have shot all of them and they are all great... Personally I like the FA as the grip fits me better than the XR3 or Bisley gripframes...

https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/ross-seyfried-lipseys-ruger-flattop-44-special-bisley-revolvers/

http://www.goodrichfamilyassoc.org/44_Special_Articles/

.


That IS a treasure trove.

It's spooky that the Brian Pierce article came out in 2005. I would have guessed 6-7 years ago. I'm gettin' old!

I've used all three mentioned cartridges, loaded to the wall in my younger days. I finally discovered that a 4 5/8" mid frame Ruger 45 Colt (New Vaquero in my case) gives me all I want from a handy revolver. My basic load is a 255 grain RNFP at 910 fps and these guns will easily handle a 275-285 grain SCW or LBT at 1050-1100 fps.

The 41 Mag and 44 Special are great cartridges, though; and you can't go wrong with any of them.

The convertible makes a lot of sense if a guy doesn't want to reload.

The 45 always gives more splash; even the 45 Auto Rim, which is essentially the 45 version of the 44 Special. Shoot metal, clock the speeds and notice the physics at work. Assuming similar bullet designs and nominal weights, the 45 "slaps" and moves metal at lower velocity.


The smaller Ruger (original 357 frame) in 44 Special (4 3/8), as deflave has noted, is pretty damn good for minimal packing/maximum snort. Skeeters old 7.5 gr load with the Keith bullet, especially the H&G 503, works great. Sub it for 8 grs. CFE Pistol or Pearce's Power Pistol load and its plenty for about anything and won't tear you up when shooting targets and banging around. The wee Bisley is a peach, but a 24 in a 4" gun or a five shot Ruger are also minimal pack/max snort.

The 41 mag with the 412429 or NOE 237 Keith gets the same powder charge with CFE Pistol. The NOE 237 gives up little to the 250 LBT's and will shoot better at the lower end. I've only used them in the large frame Ruger and N-frame Smith. My pick would be the N-frame 57 in a 4 inch gun.

The 45 Colt is at its best on the large Blackhawk/Bisley frame, 5.5 inch. 13.5-14 grs. Blue Dot or 18 grs. 2400. Bullets from 260-300 grs..
23-25 grs. H110/296 if that's not enough.

I like 4" DA's, but no flies in 5.5 single actions either.

The respected gun writer Skeeter Skelton, liked to load his 44 Specials with 7.5 grains of Unique with 250 grain SWC. MV was 950 +/- FPS, accurate, with low MV shot-to-shot variation. A 250 grain bullet at near 1000 FPS makes for an effective hunting load, without abuse to the shooter. Boringly useful load. Research some Skeeter Skelton stories about the 44 special ( he also liked 15 grains 2400 and 250 grain swc in the 44 special). Good reading.

I think that the 41 Mag, 44 Special, and 45LC are much more alike then they are different. Find the revolver you like best, and then find out the clambering. I also like the 41 mag with 250 gr cast and 18 grains of 110 out of both a Taurus Ti Tracker and a 657 mountain gun. It is the most recoil I can stand. I no longer have a 44 special, but I’ve shot lots of reduced recoil 44 mags in 29’s. An old model Blackhawk in 41 would be nice! For a flat shooting revolver I prefer a new novel Blackhawk in 357 Maximum shooting 180 gr Remington hollow points.

Damn, I don't know if I was ever that tough. I sure as heck am not any more.

Not long after Skeet wrote those articles I was shooting that load from a Charter Bulldog. You could tell something significant was happening when you lit them off.

tag
Hank

The old Skeeter load is great and easy to shoot in the Flattop but I also find a lot of value in the 200gr wad cutters around 750-800fps.

I would think the .45ACP would be just as practical (if not more so) in a SA revolver.