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They should stick one of those scopes on a 7lb .30/06, load up some stout 180s, and make every nerd on that scope design team fire a magazine full of rounds out of it... prone... off a pack.
I bet there’d be a need for a suture kit.... and a new drawing board....
You better pray to the God of Skinny Punks that this wind doesn't pick up......
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Campfire Outfitter
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Why should they do that if that's not what it was intended for? Probably just fine on an AR. If somebody buys a scope with inadequate relief for their use I'd say that's their own fault. Having said that, it sure seems like they could have designed in more relief.
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If it’s built for an AR.... then it ain’t a “hunting scope”... it’s a “lightweight AR scope”.
You wanna call it a “hunting scope” it better be able to ride an ‘06..... or a 7 Mag.... or a .270.... etc. Sub-3” eye relief ain’t gonna cut it on any of those.
You better pray to the God of Skinny Punks that this wind doesn't pick up......
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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They should stick one of those scopes on a 7lb .30/06, load up some stout 180s, and make every nerd on that scope design team fire a magazine full of rounds out of it... prone... off a pack.
I bet there’d be a need for a suture kit.... and a new drawing board.... Make it uphill prone to get extra sporty.
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I know a lot of people who hunt with ARs chambered for the likes of 6.8SPC, 6.5Grendel, 300Blackout, etc.
For those applications, anything with more than two inches of eye relief is plenty.
I suspect that this will be an excellent scope for that use.
Personally, I am partial to the 6.5Grendel and it seems to work just fine on pigs.
I probably would not put this scope on a safari gun, but there are plenty of other scopes out there for that.
ILya
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I know a lot of people who hunt with ARs chambered for the likes of 6.8SPC, 6.5Grendel, 300Blackout, etc.
For those applications, anything with more than two inches of eye relief is plenty.
I suspect that this will be an excellent scope for that use.
Personally, I am partial to the 6.5Grendel and it seems to work just fine on pigs.
I probably would not put this scope on a safari gun, but there are plenty of other scopes out there for that.
ILya nose to charging handle is incorrect way to hold the gun imo. Standard eye relief works best on those.
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nose to charging handle is incorrect way to hold the gun imo. Standard eye relief works best on those.
Nose to CH works wonders for me. I prefer to drive the gun rather than let it drive me, especially on a fighting carbine...
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nose to charging handle is incorrect way to hold the gun imo. Standard eye relief works best on those.
Nose to CH works wonders for me. I prefer to drive the gun rather than let it drive me, especially on a fighting carbine... Nose to Charging Handle (NTCH) is the way the Army still trains, and it works for training a consistent cheek weld and sight picture. Back to back World War winners, and all.
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Nose to bolt shroud on an ‘06 don’t work nearly as well....
You better pray to the God of Skinny Punks that this wind doesn't pick up......
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 38
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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I hope that with this ultra-light scope, SWFA is not going to blemish its reputation. There is no free lunch with scope weight, as is obvious by Leupold's failures. If this scope is durable, then it will gain a good rep. If not, the SWFA just hurt themselves with a Leupold clone.
It's definitely not a Leupold clone. If it was, it would have adequate eye relief despite it's other Leupold shortcomings.
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I know a lot of people who hunt with ARs chambered for the likes of 6.8SPC, 6.5Grendel, 300Blackout, etc.
For those applications, anything with more than two inches of eye relief is plenty.
I suspect that this will be an excellent scope for that use.
Personally, I am partial to the 6.5Grendel and it seems to work just fine on pigs.
I probably would not put this scope on a safari gun, but there are plenty of other scopes out there for that.
ILya I don't disagree,but I can't for the life of me figure out why you wouldn't just design it with a slightly larger ocular if needed and at least 3.5" eye relief. I really prefer 3.75"-4" because it increases options on where it will work. I just see no advantage to such short ER at the disadvantage of maybe one ounce more weight.
Last edited by R_H_Clark; 07/02/18.
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Campfire Regular
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I know a lot of people who hunt with ARs chambered for the likes of 6.8SPC, 6.5Grendel, 300Blackout, etc.
For those applications, anything with more than two inches of eye relief is plenty.
I suspect that this will be an excellent scope for that use.
Personally, I am partial to the 6.5Grendel and it seems to work just fine on pigs.
I probably would not put this scope on a safari gun, but there are plenty of other scopes out there for that.
ILya nose to charging handle is incorrect way to hold the gun imo. Standard eye relief works best on those. I do not shoot quite NTCH, but I do run my AR stocks with a little shorter LOP than I do my boltguns. Still, I am not sure how that is relevant for this discussion. ILya
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Campfire Regular
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I know a lot of people who hunt with ARs chambered for the likes of 6.8SPC, 6.5Grendel, 300Blackout, etc.
For those applications, anything with more than two inches of eye relief is plenty.
I suspect that this will be an excellent scope for that use.
Personally, I am partial to the 6.5Grendel and it seems to work just fine on pigs.
I probably would not put this scope on a safari gun, but there are plenty of other scopes out there for that.
ILya I don't disagree,but I can't for the life of me figure out why you wouldn't just design it with a slightly larger ocular if needed and at least 3.5" eye relief. I really prefer 3.75"-4" because it increases options on where it will work. I just see no advantage to such short ER at the disadvantage of maybe one ounce more weight. As a general disclaimer, I do not do product development with SWFA. I have a cordial relationship with them, so I often get to see prototypes before they are released, but that is largely it. If I were a betting man, I would bet that they looked at the one part of the hunting market that is actually growing and tried to make a scope for that application. I suspect, that they were also trying to get the weight under 10 ounces, so every little bit of weight saving makes a difference. As has been pointed out earlier, there is only so much lightening you can do on the insides before you sacrifice durability, so I suspect the eyepiece was the next logical place to streamline things without sacrificing quality. To be brutally honest, if I were them, I would probably do the same thing. People simply do not buy 32mm objective scopes for conventional big game hunting rifles any more. If you want to introduce a lightweight scope, you have to look outside of the 30-06 boltguns. I have seen this before: what people say they would do and what they actually do are not the same thing. If I were to run a poll here on how many people would buy a 12 ounce 2.5-10x32 scope with 4" of eye relief and then went on to build that scope based on positive feedback, I would go bankrupt. The number of scopes I would sell would end up at best one tenth of the number of people who said they would buy it. ILya
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Bears a startling resemblance to one of my favourite hunting scopes 2.5-10x32 Sightron What caliber is that rifle chambered for? ILya
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Campfire Tracker
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I know a lot of people who hunt with ARs chambered for the likes of 6.8SPC, 6.5Grendel, 300Blackout, etc.
For those applications, anything with more than two inches of eye relief is plenty.
I suspect that this will be an excellent scope for that use.
Personally, I am partial to the 6.5Grendel and it seems to work just fine on pigs.
I probably would not put this scope on a safari gun, but there are plenty of other scopes out there for that.
ILya I don't disagree,but I can't for the life of me figure out why you wouldn't just design it with a slightly larger ocular if needed and at least 3.5" eye relief. I really prefer 3.75"-4" because it increases options on where it will work. I just see no advantage to such short ER at the disadvantage of maybe one ounce more weight. As a general disclaimer, I do not do product development with SWFA. I have a cordial relationship with them, so I often get to see prototypes before they are released, but that is largely it. If I were a betting man, I would bet that they looked at the one part of the hunting market that is actually growing and tried to make a scope for that application. I suspect, that they were also trying to get the weight under 10 ounces, so every little bit of weight saving makes a difference. As has been pointed out earlier, there is only so much lightening you can do on the insides before you sacrifice durability, so I suspect the eyepiece was the next logical place to streamline things without sacrificing quality. To be brutally honest, if I were them, I would probably do the same thing. People simply do not buy 32mm objective scopes for conventional big game hunting rifles any more. If you want to introduce a lightweight scope, you have to look outside of the 30-06 boltguns. I have seen this before: what people say they would do and what they actually do are not the same thing. If I were to run a poll here on how many people would buy a 12 ounce 2.5-10x32 scope with 4" of eye relief and then went on to build that scope based on positive feedback, I would go bankrupt. The number of scopes I would sell would end up at best one tenth of the number of people who said they would buy it. ILya You’d sell a schitt load more of them with 4” eye relief than you will with 2.5”.... that’s for phuggin sure.
You better pray to the God of Skinny Punks that this wind doesn't pick up......
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
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Why would you want more than 2.55 inches of eye-relief? Don't need no stinking eye relief with a 6.5 creedmire, they are recoil-less
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Joined: Sep 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Vortex Razor HD LH 2-10x40...R.I.P. He saved me from buying one as well
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Campfire Tracker
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[quote=R_H_Clark][quote=koshkin]I
I have seen this before: what people say they would do and what they actually do are not the same thing.
If I were to run a poll here on how many people would buy a 12 ounce 2.5-10x32 scope with 4" of eye relief and then went on to build that scope based on positive feedback, I would go bankrupt. The number of scopes I would sell would end up at best one tenth of the number of people who said they would buy it.
ILya
you mean all the people saying they want fixed power scopes? Then when I post about the cameraland exclusive S&B fixed power scope, they complain. The whole fixed power thing is so overplayed it aint even funny. I am not sure SWFA needed to go the ultralite route. I think they would have sold plenty of robust 2.5-10 models they could have if they kept the weight even at 1 pound or less. Think about the rifles you really care about saving weight on. they are going to have more recoil than heavier guns simply because they are lighter. If I am putting together a light rifle I am probably going to just pick up a tikka t3, in one of the big game calibers. on that gun I will be wanting a scope with 3.5" or a tad more. Leupold makes scopes with eye relief in that range without huge eye pieces. nose to charging handle means you have to shorten the stock way too much on an AR, it just don't fit right. and I am not going to shoot my gun like that.
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Campfire Regular
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I know a lot of people who hunt with ARs chambered for the likes of 6.8SPC, 6.5Grendel, 300Blackout, etc.
For those applications, anything with more than two inches of eye relief is plenty.
I suspect that this will be an excellent scope for that use.
Personally, I am partial to the 6.5Grendel and it seems to work just fine on pigs.
I probably would not put this scope on a safari gun, but there are plenty of other scopes out there for that.
ILya I don't disagree,but I can't for the life of me figure out why you wouldn't just design it with a slightly larger ocular if needed and at least 3.5" eye relief. I really prefer 3.75"-4" because it increases options on where it will work. I just see no advantage to such short ER at the disadvantage of maybe one ounce more weight. As a general disclaimer, I do not do product development with SWFA. I have a cordial relationship with them, so I often get to see prototypes before they are released, but that is largely it. If I were a betting man, I would bet that they looked at the one part of the hunting market that is actually growing and tried to make a scope for that application. I suspect, that they were also trying to get the weight under 10 ounces, so every little bit of weight saving makes a difference. As has been pointed out earlier, there is only so much lightening you can do on the insides before you sacrifice durability, so I suspect the eyepiece was the next logical place to streamline things without sacrificing quality. To be brutally honest, if I were them, I would probably do the same thing. People simply do not buy 32mm objective scopes for conventional big game hunting rifles any more. If you want to introduce a lightweight scope, you have to look outside of the 30-06 boltguns. I have seen this before: what people say they would do and what they actually do are not the same thing. If I were to run a poll here on how many people would buy a 12 ounce 2.5-10x32 scope with 4" of eye relief and then went on to build that scope based on positive feedback, I would go bankrupt. The number of scopes I would sell would end up at best one tenth of the number of people who said they would buy it. ILya You’d sell a schitt load more of them with 4” eye relief than you will with 2.5”.... that’s for phuggin sure. No, it is not for sure at all. If they make scope with this eyepiece diameter and 4" of eye relief, everyone will complain how the image looks too small. If they make it heavier, everyone will complain that it is too heavy for an ultralight. Sometimes you have to make compromises. The market is weird that way. We'll see how this scope does for SWFA. If my guess is correct and target market for this is hunting ARs, they should do well with it as is. ILya
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[quote=R_H_Clark][quote=koshkin]I
I have seen this before: what people say they would do and what they actually do are not the same thing.
If I were to run a poll here on how many people would buy a 12 ounce 2.5-10x32 scope with 4" of eye relief and then went on to build that scope based on positive feedback, I would go bankrupt. The number of scopes I would sell would end up at best one tenth of the number of people who said they would buy it.
ILya
you mean all the people saying they want fixed power scopes? Then when I post about the cameraland exclusive S&B fixed power scope, they complain. The whole fixed power thing is so overplayed it aint even funny. I am not sure SWFA needed to go the ultralite route. I think they would have sold plenty of robust 2.5-10 models they could have if they kept the weight even at 1 pound or less. Think about the rifles you really care about saving weight on. they are going to have more recoil than heavier guns simply because they are lighter. If I am putting together a light rifle I am probably going to just pick up a tikka t3, in one of the big game calibers. on that gun I will be wanting a scope with 3.5" or a tad more. Leupold makes scopes with eye relief in that range without huge eye pieces. nose to charging handle means you have to shorten the stock way too much on an AR, it just don't fit right. and I am not going to shoot my gun like that. That is a good example. Same for everyone clamoring for a fixed power 4x scope. And for everyone who claims they are OK with an objective lens smaller than 40mm. Outside of a few budget scopes and most of these simply do not sell. Leupold faithful keep the 2.5-8x36 alive. People who want a premium model, buy 3-9x36 Swaro. People who are on a budget, get a 2-7x35 Fullfield II or Diamondback. Nothing else in this size range seems to sell. Maybe Nikon 2-8x32. ILya
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