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Hello everyone. I am trying to decide what type of powder to utilize in my Ruger M77 Hawkeye guide gun. The firearm shoots outstanding but has only a 20 inch barrel. Because Yogi said only I can prevent forest fires I am trying to keep this rifle from being as much of a fire breather and get some performance out of it as well. Here is what I have decided will be my main components so far for my upcoming black bear, wolf hunts with the need for some brown bear defense thrown in.
Hornady cases Nosler 225 grain Accubond CCI Primers
here is where I am stuck: I need to find a powder that will burn quick enough but also give me as much performance as possible. I have been looking at IMR 4831 / 4350 and RL 26. 4831 and 4350 has plenty of data but I just don't have any experience if it will burn enough powder up in 20 inches. RL26 I can not find much data on but was recommended to me by a friend at work. If you were to complete this firing solution what would you utilize as your powder? Thanks for the help in advance.
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I'd approach a 20" barrel exactly the way I would one that was 22" or 24" or 26"
Accuracy trumps.
"I'd rather have an Army of Asses led by a Lion, than an Army of Lions led by an Ass." (George Washington)
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Campfire Ranger
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I'd approach a 20" barrel exactly the way I would one that was 22" or 24" or 26"
Accuracy trumps.
Yup. I wouldn’t expect RL26 to be the scnizzle but any 4350 variation would be a good place to start and likely end. I would avoid most heavily coated ball-type powders if you don’t want a flare gun effect. (Perhaps Hunter or Big Game would be an exception. I dunno.???)
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I'd start with H4350
With my 26" barrel, I've had good luck with both H4831 and H4350. With shorter barrels it preferable to favor the faster powder, but no need to go crazy far in that direction. Just stay off the crazy slow for caliber side of the burn chart and you will do fine. The slowest powders for caliber produce the best velocities in longer barrels.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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I would be looking at RL 16 & RL 17
PASS IT ON!
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My 20" Ruger Guide Gun in 375 Ruger like RL17. I see Alliant Powders list 338win in their load data too.
Nothing like a Remington 700xcr.
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My 20" Ruger Guide Gun in 375 Ruger like RL17. I see Alliant Powders list 338win in their load data too.
Nothing like a Remington 700xcr.
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Campfire Outfitter
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I would be looking at RL 16 & RL 17 +1. memtb
You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel
“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
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Almost ALL the powder that's going to burn, will burn within a couple inches in front of the chamber. The same powders that result in the highest velocity in a 24-26" barrel will result in the highest muzzle velocity in a 20-22" barrel.
The "flash" at the muzzle isn't powder that's still burning, but the hot gas reigniting when it hits the atmosphere's oxygen. Rifle powder contains it's own oxygen source, but by the time it leaves the muzzle is oxygen-starved. It's still plenty hot, however, and with the "new" source of oxygen reignites--but isn't likely to cause a forest fire, unless you insert the muzzle into a bunch of dry tinder.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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My experience is different to the powders recommended so far. Since I got my first 338, the ONLY powder that gave great accuracy has been RE19, the best part of that is the fact it runs 100fps faster than any other powder I tried behind the 225gr Accubond. I ran with a load in either Win or Rem brass, WLRM primer and 76gr of RE19 with 225gr Accubonds, this gave me 2890fps in a 26” barrel and 2820fps in a 24” barrel. With 200gr bullets and lighter, 2 powders stood out for me, Win 760 and H4350. Picking a powder is not governed by barrel length, it is governed by what performance you want. For me, I look at several manuals, starting with the bullet manufacturers data, then look at several other sources and look for the powder that provides the HIGHEST velocity across all those sources, then I evaluate IF it is going to be sourcable, as Alliant powders here are impossible to get, then I will select the three TOP powders across those manuals that are the highest velocity providers. The reason for this is because those powders are the most suitable in efficiency for that expansion ratio. Then I will load 3 cases starting at 5% reduction from max and work up in 1gr increments and shoot groups, choose the tightest group and then do a ladder at 300mtr with +/- .3gr increments. I'd start with H4350
With my 26" barrel, I've had good luck with both H4831 and H4350. With shorter barrels it preferable to favor the faster powder, but no need to go crazy far in that direction. Just stay off the crazy slow for caliber side of the burn chart and you will do fine. The slowest powders for caliber produce the best velocities in longer barrels. This statement about faster powders being preferrable in short barrels is complete BS. The powder that provides the FASTEST velocity in a LONG barrel will also be the powder that provides the fastest velocities in a SHORT barrel. It is time for this MYTH to be buried forever, it is simply false and misleading.
Last edited by 416RigbyHunter; 07/08/18.
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I am contemplating converting my Kimber Talkeetna to a 20-22" 338 WM. I know that I was getting 2930 fps in my 24" Ruger 338 WM with a 225 accubond w/ RL-17 so that is where I would likely start in my next 338 WM.
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I am contemplating converting my Kimber Talkeetna to a 20-22" 338 WM. I know that I was getting 2930 fps in my 24" Ruger 338 WM with a 225 accubond w/ RL-17 so that is where I would likely start in my next 338 WM. Lets do this I have a dull hack saw blade ready to do this!
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego. Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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Haha that’s too up town for me...I was just gonna file it down
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Haha that’s too up town for me...I was just gonna file it down You can use my dremel to grind in a nice crown..
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego. Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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Thank you everyone for the reply's, I think I am going to go with a 4350 or RE19. Think I might actually already have 4350 laying around. Will post how it goes, again thank you.
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I'd approach a 20" barrel exactly the way I would one that was 22" or 24" or 26"
Accuracy trumps.
This is the correct answer. The same powders that generate the highest velocity in long barrels perform the same in shorter barrels because the powder is burned in the first few inches anyway. John
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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My experience is different to the powders recommended so far. Since I got my first 338, the ONLY powder that gave great accuracy has been RE19, the best part of that is the fact it runs 100fps faster than any other powder I tried behind the 225gr Accubond. I ran with a load in either Win or Rem brass, WLRM primer and 76gr of RE19 with 225gr Accubonds, this gave me 2890fps in a 26” barrel and 2820fps in a 24” barrel. With 200gr bullets and lighter, 2 powders stood out for me, Win 760 and H4350. Picking a powder is not governed by barrel length, it is governed by what performance you want. For me, I look at several manuals, starting with the bullet manufacturers data, then look at several other sources and look for the powder that provides the HIGHEST velocity across all those sources, then I evaluate IF it is going to be sourcable, as Alliant powders here are impossible to get, then I will select the three TOP powders across those manuals that are the highest velocity providers. The reason for this is because those powders are the most suitable in efficiency for that expansion ratio. Then I will load 3 cases starting at 5% reduction from max and work up in 1gr increments and shoot groups, choose the tightest group and then do a ladder at 300mtr with +/- .3gr increments. I'd start with H4350
With my 26" barrel, I've had good luck with both H4831 and H4350. With shorter barrels it preferable to favor the faster powder, but no need to go crazy far in that direction. Just stay off the crazy slow for caliber side of the burn chart and you will do fine. The slowest powders for caliber produce the best velocities in longer barrels. This statement about faster powders being preferrable in short barrels is complete BS. The powder that provides the FASTEST velocity in a LONG barrel will also be the powder that provides the fastest velocities in a SHORT barrel. It is time for this MYTH to be buried forever, it is simply false and misleading. You are factually wrong. Long barrels favor slower powders, but so slow enough and they will plateau in shorter barrels before reaching maximum powder charge. By the same token, you don't have to go much faster to mitigate this effect. As I mentioned above, a small change, such as going from H4831 to H4350 can be enough for proper mitigation.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Outfitter
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Almost ALL the powder that's going to burn, will burn within a couple inches in front of the chamber. The same powders that result in the highest velocity in a 24-26" barrel will result in the highest muzzle velocity in a 20-22" barrel.
The "flash" at the muzzle isn't powder that's still burning, but the hot gas reigniting when it hits the atmosphere's oxygen. Rifle powder contains it's own oxygen source, but by the time it leaves the muzzle is oxygen-starved. It's still plenty hot, however, and with the "new" source of oxygen reignites--but isn't likely to cause a forest fire, unless you insert the muzzle into a bunch of dry tinder.
.................+2.............................Shamus....Here is what you do......You reload and treat your 20" 338 just as though it had either a 22" barrel, a 24" or a 26" er. So called flame throwers from shorter tubes are imo over exaggerated. I own a 300 WSM Ruger Frontier w/ a 16.5" barrel and have yet to see all this so-called flame from the muzzle. Now I suppose if I were firing in pitch black darkness or during extremely low light then I might see some of these flames. Yes. Pursue your velocity or performance. Use a chrony. But also pursue accuracy. Let the so called flame throwing chips fall where they may.
28 Nosler,,,,300WSM,,,,338-378 Wby,,,,375 Ruger
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So called flame throwers from shorter tubes are imo over exaggerated.
I agree with that 100%. I have 18" 325 WSM even and its not the fire breathing dragon I was told it was gonna be.
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