Ok, well thought out response. If you had started out that way, we would not have been pissing on the keyboard. I just got in from grouse hunting and going out again early tomorrow, so I have to do this quick. I still disagree with you, but you have made me put more thought into my opinion. Another area that I question is the validity of even shooting at a 50+ yard pheasant. This is not meant to be argumentative. My experience comes from a different direction than yours. I don�t know how much you shoot-and I�m not saying this to brag -but I shoot somewhere between 15,000 to 18,000 shotgun shells a year between competition and practice. Maybe you shoot as much or even more, but most don�t. I really should be much better than I am!!! Because of that I know how difficult it is to consistently break a 50 yard target. And we both know a pheasant is harder to bring down than a clay target. Sometimes you get on a roll and can�t seem to miss. Others you can�t buy a chip. This is when you are setup with the best foot position, hold point, predetermined break point, visual awareness, know when and where the target will appear, etc. In the field you don�t have those advantages. Consistency in competition or the field should be one or goals. It�s how we get better.
The second reason that I don�t shoot at 50 yard pheasants is let�s say were in S.D. There are so many birds available, why take the chance of crippling a bird when another one will be flushed shortly. If the opposite is the case, and you are hunting an area with few birds, I wouldn�t shoot because you are dealing with a limited resource. Once again just my opinion regarding the value I place on a hunted animal.
As I said your comments have made me think. But I have a question for you. What are your thoughts on the examples I gave regarding the best competitive shooters using the 12 over other gauges when permitted to do so? My position is not just based on my own opinion, but has developed also because of bs sessions we have had. They wouldn�t think of entering a sporting clay championship and expect to win with any thing other than the 12. As I stated previously, I have nothing against anyone using a 20 or any other gauge, as long as they use it within its reasonable limitation.
Took the time to read your link, and it doesn�t give me any reason to disagree again. In clay shooting chokes are something I don�t worry much about, because of the variability that occurs with distance, shell used, temperature of shell, position of clay, perhaps even altitude and other factors I don�t understand. I do know that the best tend to use tight chokes, and rely on their pointing ability and not pattern spread to break a target. I personally believe if you make the perfect move and point and put the clay on the front edge of your shot string-there�s that word again-cylinder will break any target that can be broken. However, again it goes back to that perfect move.
Ok gotta go. At least I don�t have to wipe off the keyboard!!!!
There are a plethora of reasons that attempting to apply clay-chipper values to pheasant hunting does not work-- not the least of which is the lack of 12 ga. "class" sporting clay loads (1-1/8 oz.) in 20 ga. AA or STS platforms. Weight is of little factor in clay sports compared to field use, except that many folks (myself included) find longer, heavier guns to be smoother and obviously softer shooting-- very important when eating cases of shells. Totally unimportant to me when two shots in a day is all there is.
Determining a suitable load for pheasants is not that difficult at all-- you pattern the gun at the ranges you intend to bag birds at.
The pattern board determines the adequacy of a given shell / choke combination at a specific range. Once you have found what you feel is a "no-patch" 100% lethal load for the distances you intend to shoot at, the rest is practice placing that pattern where you need to place it.
If your gun does not fit you, if your gun does not shoot to point of aim . . . you might as well stay home. If you don't pattern your gun, you will have no idea what you are trying to place on the bird. Fine if you enjoy having no idea, not so fine if you want the most out of your shotgun and your time afield.
This is all fine and dandy but the future of pheasant hunting is going to be the use of non-toxic shot. The MN DNR is even thinking of requiring ALL non-toxic on public and private land. So I think the banter here should be directed at the 20ga. and its ability with ringnecks using non-toxic. I opened a thread on this a couple of weeks ago but it has generated limited response.
My home is the "sanctuary residence" for my firearms.
�There are a plethora of reasons that attempting to apply clay-chipper values to pheasTant hunting does not work-- not the least of which is the lack of 12 ga. "class" sporting clay loads (1-1/8 oz.) in 20 ga. AA or STS platforms.
There is another shotgun game, not as well known as sporting clays, but in reality is a more difficult form of sporting clays. Target distance on the whole is farther and presentations more complex. It�s called FITASC. Becoming more popular each year. The shot load maximum is 1 ounce. Winchester makes a 20 ga. 1 ounce AA target load-their class target load-in 1 ounce. Nobody who wins uses it. Since you where comparing 1 1/8 ounce to 1 1/8 ounce the reference applies since we are now comparing 1 ounce to 1 ounce. Probably in the next 2 years, sporting clays in the U.S. will mandate maximum load to 1 ounce in order to be the same as the rest of the countries with which it competes, since the game is becoming more international with each year. Wonder what will happen then?
�Determining a suitable load for pheasants is not that difficult at all-- you pattern the gun at the ranges you intend to bag birds at.�
�I dropped this rooster right at 55 yards with a B-80 20 ga., Fiocchi GP #5's, and the help of a Trulock PH extended choke. They don't get much deader better.�
Are you saying you go out with the intention of shooting pheasants at 50 plus yards? If so and you consistently make clean kills, I tip my hat.
This is all fine and dandy but the future of pheasant hunting is going to be the use of non-toxic shot.
I certainly hope that isn't the case. Lead is non-soluble in water, and the ground is where it comes from.
As far as toxicity, we can all suck on exhaust pipes of cars or look at coal-fired generating stations to find enough to satisfy Greenpeace. Far better to stick it to hunters, where crop damage and automobile damage is uncleverly ignored though it has been estimated exceed to 1-1/2 billion a year.
So I think the banter here should be directed at the 20ga. and its ability with ringnecks using non-toxic. I opened a thread on this a couple of weeks ago but it has generated limited response.
Your posting was not ignored. I simply have zero experience with "no-tox" on pheasants, so have nothing to offer.
I can theorize, of course. "No-Tox" means nothing specific, and there is a big battle going on right now in the price / performance dept. With some of the better Hevi-13 / Fed. Heavyweight / Wingmaster HD / Olin Xtra Range loads now going for $4 a shell, or more-- there is a limit as to what families can afford to "shell out." Literally.
It may not impact pheasant hunting as badly, as anyone who goes through 2 boxes of shells around here has had a great year. But a family outing for doves?
What I suspect, but do not know, is that due to the larger case capacity required for larger shot, along with the tremendously thicker wads used for steel . . . the 20 ga. will return to what it was considered back when the 1 oz. 2-3/4 in. load was as good as it got: a limited range, poor sub. for a 12 ga. based primarily on insufficient pellet count to properly populate a pattern at significant range.
I to believe the non-toxic line is a bunch of bs. And unless we can invent a cheeper substitute or find a new elemental element-highly unlikely-shotgunning will definitely change as we know it. There are two obivious answers to the problem. The first is to find ways to lower the cost of existing non-toxic shells. This really should not be one of the solutions, but unfortunately it may be. The second is to educate and place political pressure on legislatures. Along with defense of second amendment rights groups such as the NRA should work to defeat the enactment such regulations. The mandated use of non-toxic and firearm restrictions are in essence different sides of the same coin. My question to many is do you belong to the NRA? I certainly don't agree with all their positions, or for a better way to say it, I don't always agree with the way they get the job done, but to their credit they have done a good job. The debate is also presently going on with the use of rifle bullets in Calif. If we don't respond soon it will be to late or more difficult to correct in the future.
I'm not one of the "shotgun experts" that have posted prior to me, I just go out and hunt pheasants. I have a 12 ga O/U that I shoot 1.5oz #6 (the stock is too long for me) with pretty poor results. On the other hand I can shoot my 20 ga, (with a 1" shorter stock) using 1 1/8 oz #6 pretty darned good. My partner and I took 15 birds yesterday.
I Have shot most of them with a 20, lately all with a 28 ga. I make no attempt to shoot at the 50-yarders, but specialize in killing all the close ones. Last year I went with 7 guys to SD, after Thanksgiving(late season), killed a limit a day, no cripples lost. Every one else in the party lost a couple of cripples. I shoot an ounce of 5's in a 5-pound sxs.
I went hunting at a place here in AZ this past weekend and used my 20ga Superposed. Worked like a charm, just like always
It is not enough to fight for natural land and the west; it is even more important to enjoy it. While you can. While it's still there. So get out there and hunt and fish and mess around with your friends...
I've used a Steven's model 311 20 ga. for years to shoot pheasant. #6 shot in a 2 3/4 high brass shell. No need for the 3 inch stuff. I've used the 3 in. on ducks and it seemed to work well. kwg
For liberals and anarchists, power and control is opium, selling envy is the fastest and easiest way to get it. TRR. American conservative. Never trust a white liberal. Malcom X Current NRA member.
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