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Joined: Oct 2016
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2016
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Smokepole,
I'll be packing camp via horse and mules into the Bob Marshal wilderness area in Montana. Its some beautiful country with excellent fishing also. If you ever go back in there just beware and expect possibility of grizzly encounters. Glad your packing into a wilderness area also. Nothing like that kind of hunting.
Wish you the best on your hunt
Trystan
Good bullets properly placed always work, but not everyone knows what good bullets are, or can reliably place them in the field
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Campfire Tracker
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Run the 277 140 NAB vs the 280AI 160 AB and see what all the fuss is....
I did just for fun, only ran it to 600 yards though. I picked 600 yards because that is going to be beyond the range that the majority of game will be taken by most hunters. Honestly, I knew the .280 AI was going to win. .270 Win 140 grain Accubond MV 3018 FPS per Nosler data. JBM Ballistic Data set at 4000 ft elevation, 40 degree temp. MPBR 370 yds 1788 ft-lbs energy. 600 yds, -11.1 MOA drop, 3.6 MOA wind, 2051 FPS, 1308 ft-lbs energy. .280 AI 160 grain Accubond MV 3045 FPS per Nosler Data. JBM Ballistic Data set at 4000 ft elevation, 40 degree temp. MPBR 375 yds 2137 ft-lbs energy. 600 yds, -10.6 MOA drop, 3.3 MOA wind, 2130 FPS, 1612 ft-lbs energy. .280 AI MPBR +5 yds, +349 ft-lbs energy. .280 AI @ 600 yds, +0.5 MOA drop (3.141"), -0.3 MOA wind (1.8846"), +79 FPS, +204 ft-lbs energy. While the .280 AI wins on paper, I can't hold less than 2" of wind at 600 yards and I'm pretty sure what ever I hit at that range can't tell the difference of 204 ft-lbs energy. While I said I wanted a 1:8 twist .270, there isn't anything I couldn't do with the standard 1:10 twist. A little math error . . . difference is 304 ft-lbs, or about 23%
FÜCK Jeff_O!
MAGA
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,032
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,032 |
Smokepole,
I'll be packing camp via horse and mules into the Bob Marshal wilderness area in Montana. Its some beautiful country with excellent fishing also. If you ever go back in there just beware and expect possibility of grizzly encounters. Glad your packing into a wilderness area also. Nothing like that kind of hunting.
Wish you the best on your hunt
Trystan Best of luck to you too Trystan, I really like the idea of packing in with horses and mules. They make it possible for even a short, chubby lazy slug like me to go elk hunting!!
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,688
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,688 |
Smokepole,
I'll be packing camp via horse and mules into the Bob Marshal wilderness area in Montana. Its some beautiful country with excellent fishing also. If you ever go back in there just beware and expect possibility of grizzly encounters. Glad your packing into a wilderness area also. Nothing like that kind of hunting.
Wish you the best on your hunt
Trystan Best of luck to you too Trystan, I really like the idea of packing in with horses and mules. They make it possible for even a short, chubby lazy slug like me to go elk hunting!! Lol........the mules and horses are packing my camp and your packing yours on your back so perhaps my analysis of your stature was more than a little off 😊 In my defense it is a bit hard to read other folks via the internet 😒😁 Trystan
Good bullets properly placed always work, but not everyone knows what good bullets are, or can reliably place them in the field
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,168
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2008
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Run the 277 140 NAB vs the 280AI 160 AB and see what all the fuss is....
I did just for fun, only ran it to 600 yards though. I picked 600 yards because that is going to be beyond the range that the majority of game will be taken by most hunters. Honestly, I knew the .280 AI was going to win. .270 Win 140 grain Accubond MV 3018 FPS per Nosler data. JBM Ballistic Data set at 4000 ft elevation, 40 degree temp. MPBR 370 yds 1788 ft-lbs energy. 600 yds, -11.1 MOA drop, 3.6 MOA wind, 2051 FPS, 1308 ft-lbs energy. .280 AI 160 grain Accubond MV 3045 FPS per Nosler Data. JBM Ballistic Data set at 4000 ft elevation, 40 degree temp. MPBR 375 yds 2137 ft-lbs energy. 600 yds, -10.6 MOA drop, 3.3 MOA wind, 2130 FPS, 1612 ft-lbs energy. .280 AI MPBR +5 yds, +349 ft-lbs energy. .280 AI @ 600 yds, +0.5 MOA drop (3.141"), -0.3 MOA wind (1.8846"), +79 FPS, +204 ft-lbs energy. While the .280 AI wins on paper, I can't hold less than 2" of wind at 600 yards and I'm pretty sure what ever I hit at that range can't tell the difference of 204 ft-lbs energy. While I said I wanted a 1:8 twist .270, there isn't anything I couldn't do with the standard 1:10 twist. A little math error . . . difference is 304 ft-lbs, or about 23% Thanks for pointing out my math error, my fat finger must of got in the way on my phone I'll fix it. However, I doubt an animal will be 23% deader as a result of 304 ft-lbs of energy.
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In most cases, I agree, but bigger is always bigger, faster is always faster, and more is always more.
When the downsides are negligible, I'll take it.
FÜCK Jeff_O!
MAGA
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Very few people ever shoot 175 and 160 grains bullets in their 280's or 270's. Just saw this and it's BS. Long range 7 mm shooters use a lot of 180s, there are a couple of threads on these forums right now. I have some on my loading bench just waiting on some empty cases to reload. What, all 10 of you? Ive shot the 280 for 25 years and never had the desire nor need to run anything over 160grs. Ive never had any sniper fantasies though. You guys can pull all the ballistic bull shat you want, but in the real world there is very little differance between the 270 and 280.
Last edited by BWalker; 08/20/18.
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Joined: Jun 2006
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
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Ive shot the 280 for 25 years and never had the desire nor need to run anything over 160gr.
So what. I have a 7-08 that I've never shot anything other than 120 grain NBTs out of. The difference is, I know that my own personal preferences don't mean squat.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Oct 2002
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Even Jack O'Connor finally realized the 280's superiority over the 270. That was his last custom rifle. Actually he was dissappointed in the 280 saying he couldn't match the velocity of the 140 grain bullet with the 130 gr. 270 bullet. Similar BC and SD back then.
Dog I rescued in January ![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/yYDjsxrQ/IMG-0124.jpg)
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Joined: Oct 2002
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Very few people ever shoot 175 and 160 grains bullets in their 280's or 270's. To suggest there is much real world difference between the two cartridges is really pole vaulting over mice turds. with a tooth pic!
Dog I rescued in January
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Joined: Jun 2010
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Even Jack O'Connor finally realized the 280's superiority over the 270. That was his last custom rifle. Actually he was dissappointed in the 280 saying he couldn't match the velocity of the 140 grain bullet with the 130 gr. 270 bullet. Similar BC and SD back then. Yeah I think that whole "JOC preferred 280 Rem" thing was debunked by BobinNH.
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In most cases, I agree, but bigger is always bigger, faster is always faster, and more is always more.
When the downsides are negligible, I'll take it. I don't disagree with any of that, but I won't be trading in my .270 for a .280 AI in the near future. If I were buying a rifle without any experience with either I'm sure those numbers could sway me towards the .280 AI. I bought my first .270 over 20 years ago, and I see no point to change what worked then and still works now better than ever.
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Joined: Feb 2010
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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When the upside is negligible, I'll stay put. Reckon everyone should just roll 338 Laupa or 50 BMG.......oh crap, another thread.
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Of course you will. You've bought your last rifle. Besides, I can't see Walmart stocking 280AI ammo anytime soon. 
FÜCK Jeff_O!
MAGA
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I do enjoy see them load ammo for me....into a bag. I remember trying to decide between 140 Corlokts or 140 Corlokts when I had my 280. Non-AI of course.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Someone please explain what "better" bullet selection means?
You need it explained? It has to do with both size and BC. For example if you think you need a stout, heavier bullet for big animals the biggest Partition you can shoot in your .270 is 160 grains; the biggest for the .280 is 175 grains. The heaviest TTSX Barnes lists for the .270 is 130 grains; for the .280 it's 150. Woodleigh do a 180 grain .270cal .270cal TSX is available in 130,140,150 All the talk about better bullet selection , yet whenever someone posts asking advice on .270cal BG bullet, the overwhelming number of responses say 150 NP
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Campfire Ranger
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Here is the gods awful truth.
To get 280 ballistics of a 165-168 grain at 3k FPS (which can be done in a 280AI)
You have to use a 140 grain in a 270... which means it’s slower than you might like.
I rebarrelled my 270 to 280AI..
of and that gay rainbow thing in your scope goes away too.
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I’ve been getting 3k chronod out of my 2- 270s with 150s...no sweat.
I like 7mms better but all things considered...270 is the better choice by a long shot. There is just no real downside while the 280 has a couple big ones...lack of rifles and factory ammo chief amongst them.
-Joe-
The "Anti-Tactical"
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
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Someone please explain what "better" bullet selection means?
You need it explained? It has to do with both size and BC. For example if you think you need a stout, heavier bullet for big animals the biggest Partition you can shoot in your .270 is 160 grains; the biggest for the .280 is 175 grains. The heaviest TTSX Barnes lists for the .270 is 130 grains; for the .280 it's 150. Woodleigh do a 180 grain .270cal .270cal TSX is available in 130,140,150 Yes, I know. And there are others that make big bullets for .270s, like Matrix. But if you go back and look at the post I was responding to, you'll see that the poster specifically mentioned a few different brands and makes of bullets, including Bergers, TTSXs, and Partitions, so his examples are what I used to show that bigger bullets are available in the .280..
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Even Jack O'Connor finally realized the 280's superiority over the 270. That was his last custom rifle. Actually he was dissappointed in the 280 saying he couldn't match the velocity of the 140 grain bullet with the 130 gr. 270 bullet. Similar BC and SD back then. Yeah I think that whole "JOC preferred 280 Rem" thing was debunked by BobinNH. The last custom rifle JOC had made and never received was a 280. Also if you read between the lines he thought the 30-06 was pretty good and stopped just short of saying it was better than the 270. The 270 was his meat and potatoes/bread and butter so just like don't leave the one that brought you he remained loyal to the 270 even if he lusted in his heart over other cartridges. I don't think they have made enough whiskey to permanently resolve this issue but fun to keep it going.
I rebarrelled my 270 to 280AI..
of and that gay rainbow thing in your scope goes away too.
That and the damned thong thing.
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
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