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Joined: Nov 2015
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I was simply correcting the false info you posted. Keyholes in the target are not produced by a bullet with an SG between 1.0 and 1.5. Show me where I said that.
"He is far from Stupid"
”person, who happens to have an above-average level of intelligence”
– DocRocket (In reference to ElkSlayer91)
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 4,859
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2015
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Elkslayer91,
You should pick up some of Brian Litz's books if you really want to understand this stuff, instead of guessing about it. His books are somewhat pricey, but well worth it. However, I do realize that most shooters (and apparently most other people) believe they can educate themselves for nothing by reading Internet sound-bites. How can I be guessing when all I was doing is repeating information produced by the Berger calculator? As Jordan noted, "marginal stability" on the Berger site's stability program doesn't mean the bullet might fly sideways. Below an SG of 1.0, the Berger program states the bullet is "unstable." That's when they tend to tumble, not at 1.5, or even 1.1. I'm fully cognitive of that fact sir. It wouldn't say marginal if they were tumbling. Wanna show me where I stated they would tumble between 1.0 - 1.5?
"He is far from Stupid"
”person, who happens to have an above-average level of intelligence”
– DocRocket (In reference to ElkSlayer91)
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 4,859
Campfire Tracker
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Joined: Nov 2015
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elkslayer91 is a source of "interesting" information. I've graded enough math homework/tests to have a sensitive "tenuous understanding" detector. It's been beeping lately. Since you're so great in math, perhaps you should go explain the simple concept of hold-over, and hold-under, when the trajectory (arc) of a projectile is known in the 7-08 thread. They seemed to be quite uncomfortable with any new lessons being taught here. They showed to be very "tenuous" in that area. Maybe a mathman could teach it better. Why even on this site, 300 yard zero is used in tables discussing long range marksmanship: https://www.24hourcampfire.com/loads_for_the_long_shot.htmlI guess 350 yard zero was just too much to handle. I loved math. Made all A’s.
"He is far from Stupid"
”person, who happens to have an above-average level of intelligence”
– DocRocket (In reference to ElkSlayer91)
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,529 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,529 Likes: 2 |
I was simply correcting the false info you posted. Keyholes in the target are not produced by a bullet with an SG between 1.0 and 1.5. Show me where I said that. Here you go: Your 1:10 is the problem. You are right on the edge with those 160g for stability.Nosler Reloading No.3 book shows 1:9 for 7mm RM and 7mm Wby Mag for the barrel used with loads up to 175g. I can’t believe Wby made that rifle with a 1:10, and not 1:9. Go to the Berger twist rate calculator: http://www.bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/Right side drop dwn menu > click the 7mm 168 VLD > change muzzle velocity to your 3219 > make sure twist is set at 10 > click calculate. You’ll see that 168 VLD isn’t stable, SG 1.40. Bullet is 1.43” long. Chart shows needs min. 1:9.5 rate for that length bullet. Now change bullet to the 168 Classic 1.37” long. Chart shows SG = 1.59, just barely over the min SG 1.5 to be stable with the 1:10 rate. That’s why all of the others you tried are stable. They are right on the edge to the good side obviously. Check the length of that FED bullet, and check the length of the bullets that have worked, and you’ll see where exactly your line in the sand is for bullet length for stability in that 1:10. You need to finish that box at 200 yds., where they will be slipping sideways through the paper, and call it TarArt. Then frame them and sell them as modern art. You know those crazies will buy anything as long as it is labeled as “modern art”. EDIT - See Mule Deer's post below a few post's down. The Berger calc I used gave me wrong data.
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Joined: Nov 2015
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Campfire Tracker
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I was simply correcting the false info you posted. Keyholes in the target are not produced by a bullet with an SG between 1.0 and 1.5. Show me where I said that. Here you go: Your 1:10 is the problem. You are right on the edge with those 160g for stability.Nosler Reloading No.3 book shows 1:9 for 7mm RM and 7mm Wby Mag for the barrel used with loads up to 175g. I can’t believe Wby made that rifle with a 1:10, and not 1:9. Go to the Berger twist rate calculator: http://www.bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/Right side drop dwn menu > click the 7mm 168 VLD > change muzzle velocity to your 3219 > make sure twist is set at 10 > click calculate. You’ll see that 168 VLD isn’t stable, SG 1.40. Bullet is 1.43” long. Chart shows needs min. 1:9.5 rate for that length bullet. Now change bullet to the 168 Classic 1.37” long. Chart shows SG = 1.59, just barely over the min SG 1.5 to be stable with the 1:10 rate. That’s why all of the others you tried are stable. They are right on the edge to the good side obviously. Check the length of that FED bullet, and check the length of the bullets that have worked, and you’ll see where exactly your line in the sand is for bullet length for stability in that 1:10. You need to finish that box at 200 yds., where they will be slipping sideways through the paper, and call it TarArt. Then frame them and sell them as modern art. You know those crazies will buy anything as long as it is labeled as “modern art”. EDIT - See Mule Deer's post below a few post's down. The Berger calc I used gave me wrong data. You're wrong. Nowhere you bolded, or anywhere for that matter, was the word keyhole, and that is what you said in your original statement, which I bolded for you, and what I was referring to.....keyhole. You did not say stability, you said keyhole, and I never stated anything about when they keyhole. Wanna try again?
"He is far from Stupid"
”person, who happens to have an above-average level of intelligence”
– DocRocket (In reference to ElkSlayer91)
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,529 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,529 Likes: 2 |
I never said you said the word "keyhole". I simply said that I was correcting false info, which is what I bolded. My choice to use the word "keyhole" was to help explain and correct.
What do you think "isn't stable" means? What shape hole does such a bullet produce in a paper target?
LOL, good luck. You'll do great here.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,167 Likes: 16
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,167 Likes: 16 |
Yep, he's made quite an impression so far....
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,871 Likes: 5
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,871 Likes: 5 |
I loved math. Made all A’s.
That's great. What was your most advanced course?
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,625 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,625 Likes: 1 |
I loved math. Made all A’s.
That's great. What was your most advanced course? "rithmetic"
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Posts: 3,736
Campfire Tracker
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When it comes to Math, I'm a lot like Mathew Quigley..."never said I couldn't do it, I just never had any use for it." lol I "skirted" Algebra/Geometry/Trig/Calculus in High School. I went the "Related Math I & II". I then joined the Army and my 3rd job was in Fire Direction Center, Artillery. I had 30 days to get ready for the Field. Trigonometry Class/8 Inch Howitzer ballistics, 8 hrs a day and 2 hrs of homework every night. I felt I had my grey matter worn down to the white meat! ha Once we got to shooting, it was a hoot. Yeah, I can do it....just don't like it. Hurts my head....ha
Last edited by Jim_Knight; 01/03/19.
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