Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Rimfires OK "Old Timers" - learn me up some....

So, I've come to appreciate the old .22's more and more, but I didn't grow up with them so I don't really know them.

What are the best models to look for today? The ones that have stood the test of time?
And that the average guy can afford (Winchester 52's make my wallet squeak and try to hide deeper in my pocket).

Rifles you can scope without drilling holes in them are a big plus. Good triggers are another.

ps - just picked up a Savage 23AA and other than the scope mounting challenge I couldnt be happier.

Winchester 69s and 75s, Remington 500 series (510, 513, etc), Mossbergs of various models, which are often overlooked because they were not as popular but are usually good shooters. Most all of the later versions of the mentioned ones usually have grooved receivers.
The triggers on any of them may require a little work depending on your expectations.

drover

I like the 511's and 512's - they caught my eye years ago because I assumed the two lug bolt would be good for accuracy.
Sounds like it was a good guess.

Drover made all good suggestions and your Savage 23 is a good one too! The Remington 510 series rifles have only one issue and that’s the trigger (as mentioned) - only so much can be done with the design to make it “better”. I would also add the Mauser series rifles (340s, 350s, 410 & 420s, & 201s) which sometimes can be found fairly reasonable. Kleinguenthers, some Voeres, Stevens (416) & some single shot versions, Savage 19, Winchester 72, Walther KKJ and KKM, early Anschutz, and Marlin 1897 & 39s are all that I have experience with and all shot great. Many are not scope compatable and if in good condition would not be something that I would drill and tap. I shoot many with factory irons or period receiver/tang sights. There are probably many others that I’m forgetting but seems like most pre-60s .22s shot very well even many of the “cheap” single shot versions. Good luck - I’ve found it a lot of fun over the years picking up older 22 rifles that I was not familiar with, to see how they shot, and was often times pleasantly surprised - plus many of these older less “popular” rifles can be had at reasonable prices.

PennDog

Remington 40x RF sporter. Just joking. If you think the 52's are high....

I'll second or third the motion on Rem 500 series. Had shot them but never appreciated them when I was younger. Bought a 512 a few years back & I still can't believe how much I enjoy it. Bought a 1953 model 550-1 last year. Kind of a bulky looking semiauto. But it had purdy wood, a Williams peep, it was made in my birth year. and......... it was $210 out the door. If most semi auto 22's made knew this gun they would hang their head in shame over its accuracy & dependability.

Nylon 66's are a blast, & again, their dependability makes all other semi auto's pale.

The icing for the cake? Get on ammoseek.com & have a look at current 22 RF pricing. It hasn't been this good for 15 years.

Don't overlook some of the modern examples, CZ for instance. Think good scopes with fine x hairs & adj. parallax. Over the years some fine 22's have been downgraded by folks installing a... " it's just a 22, any old scope will do". This is usually far worse than feeding one crappy ammo.

I've been looking for a good 550-1 for a while, and while not exactly "vintage" I have had great luck with my 552 and 582.
I'm also lucky to own a fine shooting CZ 455 "Lux" (not like the 452 Lux) and a dolled up 10-22 that is the most accurate .22 that I have ever seen.

But I know there are some truly well crafted old .22's out there that id like to experience for myself (yeah, maybe even a 52 someday...)
I just don't know which ones they are, which is why I really appreciate it when people like you share your knowledge.

ps - I'm with you, and I routinely mount some very good glass on my rifles. I think that a small-bell 4-12 with AO is very appropriate for an accurate .22 and if its a target gun I don't see a reason to limit the mag or quality. AO is nearly a must for me & rimfires, but I find that low mag scopes just don't need it for field use.

If I were buying now,I would look used at the 54 and 64 action Anschultz,depending on target or hunting. The CZ 452's and 453's are nice and I think about as good for the money as you can buy in a sporter. Lots of nice ones,but it would be hard to go wrong with one of those.

Check out www.rimfirecentral.com

The older .22's are a step back in time. Many bolt guns especially ,can be very good shooters , if properly cared for thru their life. Many guns that we paid 30-40 $ for in the '50's and '60's....now bring several hundred $ in good to excellent shape. The Rems, Marlins, Mossbergs, Winchesters and others can be a lot of fun and very serviceable .

The later would be grooved for scopes. The long BBLs. on many made for excellent shooters. ( some had 25" BBLS ). Of course, if you are on a nostalgia trip, the one thing that has changed is ones' eyesight.

The triggers were mostly medicore, with little to be done for much improvement. A slight amount of honing/ polishing may be helpful. However , most of the time not much improvement can be acheived ,nor is it needed.
I have futzzed around changing angles slightly....but not recommended.

The older rifles ( not only rimfires) are a lot of fun.

This is from a guy that appreciates the newer firearms also. That would include the Annies, Coopers, etc. I am an equal opportunity powder burner.

Have fun.

Pump Winchesters and Remingtons and a couple of these lever actions are great shooters. And very well made from the 50's-early 70's.

Winchester lever 9422
Winchester pump 61


Remington pump 121

Marlin 39

Awesome 22's

Thanks guys

What I'm looking to do is bring together a small battery of classic .22's to enjoy, and some of the fun is going to be learning about them. In sure some of the "fun" will be finding them too.

I was a machinist/Toolmaker when I was young, and a mechanical designer for a time after that. Now I shuffle paper. I find myself wanting some good old craftsmanship to appreciate and I'm a gun nut so.... here we are.

Just looked at a Rem 550 at a local store. Good bore, so-so cosmetic condition, heavy/mushy but clean trigger that I'm assuming is typical. It does have a grooved receiver. Thoughts on its value?

Thanks!

I’ll second the .22 pumps, both Winchester and Remington. I’m a huge Marlin 39A fan, Winchester 75 bolt gun and Winchester 74 for a semi auto. H&R model 12 is a real nice shooter and as already mentioned those Mossberg trainers are a real steal.

"I am an equal opportunity powder burner"

You go cisco! An excellent quote. I might steal this one.

And yes, Stan, the 61 is nice, but it's a Winchester & will command bigger bucks for the name. Is it better than the 121 Rem ? The Rem ain't cheap for a nice one , but the Win will usually command more. I'm on a quest for a 121 BTW. As nice as I can find that won't cost a months SSI. I look weekly.
The Marlin 39 was/is a standard gun for a complete 22 RF battery. How could a RF lover not have a 39?

Longer barrels....... they will extend your iron sight shooting for 5 or ten years. When looking at a 512 Rem that was for sale, which has a 25.5" barrel, my 5 year old younger brother said, wait a minute, I can see the front sight on this gun. I said let me see that, & grabbed it from him, shouldered it & soon told the seller I'd take it.

I've often thought about the numbers of a battery of guns one should have, others strive for that too. Three centerfires should do it, as well as 3shotguns & 3 to 5 handguns.
22 RF's don't count, a man ought to have as many of those as he wants.

"Centerfires seem to be tools while rimfires are joy" gunzo

I like the Winchester 77s with tubular magazines, don't like the detachable magazine style at all, and they are still reasonably prices and show up on GB all the time.

Another Winchester semi-auto that I like is the 490, but it isn't what I'd consider "old time".

All good sound advice. I would suggest also saving your nickels and adding at least one top tier target rifle from the mid-20th century. While many of the aforementioned rifles are known for their accuracy, there was a reason you never saw any of them being used by top competitors in their day. Experience a Model 52 Winchester, M37 Remington, or MkII or III Martini and have your eyes opened- you'll realize your wallet squeaking wasn't justified and was trying to tempt you away from an adventure in true accuracy. One Model 52 or two Remington M12's, hmmmmm. An inch, inch and a half at 50 yards or aspirins at 50 yards, hmmmmm.

Another realm of interest are the .22 milsurps: British Enfields, Mausers, Mas 45's, and of course the king of the heap the Springfield M1922/M1/M2 series. Some of them are as salty as a Winchester 52, others a lot less. Many are stunningly accurate (such as the Springfield), all are stunningly fun.

My favorite: Winchester 63 semi auto, 2nd Winchester 62 Pump, 3rd Winchester 61 pump.

Two recently discontinued Remington bolt action .22's that have become popular classics are the Models 741 and 741T.
The T has a heavy barrel and the 741 is a sporter.

EDIT: I MEANT TO SAY REMINGTON MODEL 541T & 541T - HB. THE 541T IS A SPORTER AND THE 541T-HB HAS A HEAVY BULL BARREL

Good Morning Kragman,

Pickup a late '50's Gun Digest Catalog or Shooters Bible ...lotsa info there.

Are these different rifles than the 541S and 541T?

I usually pickup all the old nice blue/walnut 22 I can find between 100-300 bucks. Anything from 1900-1960s...that style stuff.

you need a nice old winchester 67, any of the old pumps..I have a rem 121, win 62, and win 1890. Found an old savage 120 awhile back that is a shooter. Winchester 310 or 320. Marlin 99. Sold my Rem Apache but which I had kept it. I'd love to have a nice Win 63. Oh...and a Rem speedmaster 552 is a must. Old Ruger Standards or MKi. I've passed on a lot of other stuff that was in a little too far gone condition, I'd like a nice set of the Rem 500 series....I see them from time to time in shops, just nothing quite clean enough for me.

You weren't looking hard enough... I bought a really nice 550-1 (1967 vintage) on gun broker for $200 from a shop in Rhode Island....I'd bet it hadn't had a brick run through it.

Hey Middlefork Miner - you know that you poached that 550-1 straight out of my backyard, right? lol


You should post a pic. I'd love to see it.

Yes, there is an important difference but first let me correct my mistake with the model numbers that I was referring to.
I should have said the MODEL 541T and the MODEL 541T - HB.only because those are the models that I'm used to seeing and are more recent production.
The 541T is a sporter and the 541T - HB has a heavy bull barrel.

The Model 541S is a different model for more than just cosmetic reasons.
While the 541S may have been an older production model, it's reported to have had a better trigger and accuracy and probably even better cosmetics than the 541T.
I didn't mention it because I'm just not as familiar with it - I'm only familiar with the T and T-HB models.
I'm not sure that any Model 541S had sights even though its a sporter.
At least some of the 541T had sights.
The 541T - HB is more of a bench rest or heavy varmint type of rifle that can out shoot both of the 541 sporters.

Thanks for bringing the 541S Model to my attention and my mistake with the model numbers.
There's information that can be Googled about their differences which I learned from.

Just picked up a Win model 63. My dad had one maybe 50 years ago. Neat accurate well balanced gun. Put it up against anything made today.hopefull the picture shows.

https://m.imgur.com/account/Hikerbum/images/4aovUiW

I was gifted a M1903 Winchester, in pieces, all there, sewer pipe bore. Debating whether to go through the hassle of lining the barrel and changing/altering internals to use .22LR ammo or just put it together and keep it original- and never shoot it because .22 Auto ammo is non-existent in shooting quantities.

Kragman1: If I were looking for a "scopeable" oldy and a goody to recommend to you I would go with the bolt action Winchester Model 69 with grooved receiver.
I have and do own many of these Rifles and the ones I have shot all were pleasingly accurate.
Good luck in your worthy pursuit.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I would like to add to my prior posted list, a couple of nice old school 22 lr pistols. There are a ton but a couple I will mention because of personal experience is a Ruger Mark II slab side ( yea I know not that old but getting close to classic status.) Another would be a older Dan Wesson revolver from the late 70’s or early 80’s. Why I let that one go is beyond me but I was young and impulsive at the time. And of course a S&W revolver has to be in the mix.z

Good question - would you all say that the Ruger original models and Mark I pistols should be considered classics these days?
I feel like I do, especially the early target and government models.

I was only thinking of rifles when I first posted, but that was short sighted. Can't ignore all the High Standards, Colts and Model 41's can we? Or the Smith revolvers and three screw Rugers.

Or the Dan Wessons

Looked at an old Walther single shot once that was pretty cool. Can’t remember the model number but it was a sporter version of the 98 style trainer. Rear sight was mounted in a groove on the barrel and it had large grooves in the receiver for mounting a scope. Externally adjustable trigger too.
But I hate the big flag 3-position safety, and this one had some pitting near the end of the long heavy barrel too.

I wanna say it was Sport Modele V or something like that. I’m sure there’s a slightly more modern version with a different safety that is more scope friendly.

gnoahhh.....FWIW Aguila makes it and it’s still available as far as I know but of course it’s pretty expensive.
I picked up some for my 1903 and it shoots pretty good. Fun little gun just like it’s offspring (Model 63).

PennDog

I'll try to remember to take a pic... it's a great shooter too...

Thank you. I know its a hassle to post pics but I hope you get one through....

I'm not much help, as my only old .22 rifle is a 1957 39A. Still shoots pretty good. Damn things are getting up there in price tho. Keeping this one. Good luck in your endeavor.

I haven't shot either of my 40X customs yet, but my Remington 37s all shoot lights out. My old CZ452s were pretty good shooters.
I did have a nice 10-22 custom that really shot well, but gave it to a friend.

Hi Birch

Just curious - as made by Remington, which would you say is the more accurate rifle: the Model 37 or 40X?

Remington earlier 500 series 22's with grooved a reciever, all metal, and wood. no plastic.
Can be had very reasonably, well made, and are good shooters.

I hear you. Those 03/63's were/are probably the epitome of what a .22 autoloader should be.

I never judge a .22 autoloader by how well it groups on paper. What matters is how well I can keep an empty beer can bouncing with one (what, you didn't think I shoot full ones did you?) and how well I can dispatch a squirrel running across an oak limb. If it'll slop 5 into an inch-inch and a half at 50 yards I'm good to go. If you miss with the first shot you have a second go with just a twitch of the trigger.

Not to hijack my own thread, but to me a good squirrel rifle has a special place in gun heaven, because it has to excel in both objective and subjective ways.
Mine would be my old Remington 552 because of how it shoots - a combination of free swinging, good trigger and accurate.

But they're not exactly vintage, right? I like to think that the 550's handle the same, but that may be fantasy.

So, which vintage semi-autos make the best squirrel rifles?

I recently pickd up a nice Winchester mdl 75 and put a Redfield Alaskan 4x on it. Man that is an accurate gun!

Marlin 56

They made it...but if I'm not mistaken, they no longer make it, what is out there is all there is. I know where an 1903 is sitting right now and I just haven't pulled the trigger due to the ammo. As cheap as I have found it is 17 bucks plus shipping. I'll hold out for a nice '63.

Old school .22s are a bunch of fun. I've been having a good time with this old Winder. CCI Target Shorts are head shot accurate and quiet as a mouse fart.

Gotta love it.

550-1s are great fun too. Haven't found a round mine won't function with, including CB Shorts.

Oh my...

I want.

If'n I ever lose my faculties PennDog get's that one. I'm not planning that tho!

Rats...
I never did like PennDog.

Who is he?

Ahhh.......that would be me - the one whose been lusting after that rifle ever since FB posted a picture of that beautiful, beautiful rifle many years ago😄

Killerv - you are correct. I thought they were still making that ammo, guess I should have bought more when I had the chance!

PennDog

I have a particular fondness for the Mossberg 46B one of which my dad bought at a farm sale back in 1956 or so for a grand total of five bucks. I grew up with that rifle plinking at stuff around the farm. I finally gave it to a nephew for a wedding present. He was more than happy to get Grandpa's gun.

Meanwhile I realized that I missed it so much that I decided I needed another so found one identical to it on Gunbroker. Was pleasantly surprised that it would do one half to one inch groups at fifty yards with just about anything I fed it.

Some of those old beaters are still good for something after all.

Well, okay. Maybe I could be next after you? You know, just in case of an alien abduction or you decide to sail off to Tahiti with some Polynesian Princess?

Sorry, I didn't see your post. I have 3 Model37s left. The one that I bought from Mike Walker is the most accurate that I own.

Found this thread after getting back from hunting. I'm a cheap bastid most of the time but appreciate old blue and walnut, american made rifles in my safe. Besides the couple splurges I made on 40X's, 52 B's, and a 52C (when mama wasn't watching), most of my stuff is pretty pedestrian- but very well made and excellent shooters to boot.

Hard to differentiate by ability to shoot because they all seem to shoot about the same on any given day if I do my part and feed them the right ammo- but here would be my list to watch for, especially at pawn shops, LGS, and other unsuspecting places where you might find a decent deal.
Winchester 69A- later ones have a groove top, all of them are available with excellent aperture sights if you are lucky enough to find one. My last two have Lyman 57 EW sights on them and they are excellent but scopes bring out the best with my old eyes
Winchester 75 Target and Sporter. Both shoot very well and the sporter is very light and well adorned with checkering and usually very nice wood. The 69A and 75 share the same action and trigger.
Winchester 72A- basically a 69A that is tube fed as opposed to magazine fed.
Winchester 9422 in several different configurations and the Marlin 39A are terrific lever actions and tons of fun to shoot. Henry and several others make lever actions the look somewhat like them, but if you pick up the Marlin and Winchester and work the actions and then the Henry and other look-alikes, you'll only look at the Winchesters and Marlins from then on.
Remington 541S and 541T- beautifully made rifles when Remington still cared about those things with excellent wood and handle exceptionally well. Both of mine are capable of very fine shooting- some days will give my 52B a run for it's money at 50 yards.
Remington 581, 582, 580 in the order I would put them in. The 581 is mag fed, 582 is tube fed IIRC, and the 580 is single shot.
Remington 5 teen rifles- 510, 511, 512, 513, 514
Mauser, Walther, Erma, and other German .22 trainers can be found for decent prices if you are very lucky and are all very good shooters.

There are lots of others, but these are my favorites to shop for. I would love to have a nice Anschutz or Sako, but they are just a little bit out of my budget and I'm having plenty of fun trying to keep these kids happy. My buddy owns the Remington teens and they are very good shooters- I haven't gotten that far yet....

If you budget is in the market for Remington 37's, 40X/40XB, or the Winchester 52's, the list gets much longer.....


Bob

Yep, the Rem 582 I bought about 50 years ago is still pretty accurate. Back in those days the local hardware store sold Hodgdon 22s in 500 count bricks for seems like 8 bucks. It was the most accurate in this rifle I could find, with Super-X coming in a close 2nd. Many a time I got in trouble for not getting chores done fast enough, burning through a brick a month can slow a guy down somewhat.

I just bought another LH 581.

Actually, there are few .22's from the 20th century that don't rate ownership by gun cranks. A couple I've studiously avoided were Nobles, Floberts, and Quackenbushes. Even they have their place in the overall scheme of things.

A neat pump design that simply doesn't work worth a tinker's dam (at least the couple I owned) was the Stevens Visible Loader. Interesting and innovative from nigh on 100 years ago, it has a universal reputation for unreliability. Nickname: "The Miserable Loader." In their defense I've heard of a couple that were dead reliable, but I never saw one like that.

Another neat old autoloader that does work reliably was the Savage 6/Stevens 87- what's called the "click clack repeater". (The bolt stays retracted if you hold back the trigger and releases when the trigger is released- takes some getting used to, but rapid fire is no problem with one afterwards.) They also have a feature whereby the bolt knob can be manipulated to lock the bolt for single shot use. Kind of hard to describe, you have to see one and play with it to fully understand it. Mine shoots like a young target rifle.

Oh, now you suck!

I'll post a photo of it when it gets in.

Look forward to it. Where the heck did you find that one? NEVER see them in the LGS's or pawn shops around here.

Well since it isn’t mine I am more than willing to give it to you when I leave with that Polynesian Princess😄

PennDog

Excellent!

Oddly enough, I found it on Gunbroker.

Here are some of the listing photos. It appears to be very clean and complete.

I have a 1903 and pick up ammo at gunshows, but Aquila did a run of ammo for them and I still see it for sale, but they can't ship to Canada.

I also like the model 67 my dad gave me that he had for many years, I used to have a cooey 750 but sold it to my dad and he ended up selling it.
I liked it too.

About three years ago, I stumbled into a really nice Remington 511 which is for all intents a sporter version of the Junior Target without the heavy target stock and receiver sights, but scoped, it is every bit as accurate. Pawn shop find at $39.95 OTD. Wow, 50s quality at a steal. It has been sitting somewhere unused for years.

Jack