|
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,222
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,222 |
i'm thinking about a 416 taylor, anybody shoot one, tell me about them. i'd like a big bore just for fun!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,582
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,582 |
I had one, my first of 4 .416s Excellent and stingy on powder. Close to the RM using 10/15 grains less powder. If I knew now what I did then I would go 411KDF and use 41 mag, 405 type bullet hand loads for fun and medium game and stout 411s or X bullets for bear. Guys going to Africa should stick with 416 RM or other non wildcat type guns and ammo.
Watch 'Yer Topknot!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,701
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,701 |
IMO the only real reason for the 416 Taylor was that it could be shoehorned into a standard length action. These days, I think the 416 Ruger is a better option as it is about the same length but has greater capacity. That's what I built myself.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,582
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,582 |
That was 25 years ago! A pal gave me a shoe box of 458s, one pass in the sizer die... and presto Taylors! And it is efficient. Not a bad choice, I still say.
Watch 'Yer Topknot!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 4,936
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 4,936 |
The Taylor pressure is much lower than the Ruger. Like Uncas says one pass and wala taylor brass.
What you have done is not nearly as important as how you have done it!!! The Old Fart 2008 A.D.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,222
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,222 |
cool guys keep it coming!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,701
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,701 |
One swipe of my CC and walla, 416 Ruger brass. By the way, the Ruger is SAAMI approved at lower pressure than the 416 Taylor.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Campfire Oracle
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
Easy to handle with 400's and moderate charges, full charge gets your attention a little but not unbearable at all. I had one on a VZ 24.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 942
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 942 |
I built one on a Ruger 77 action. First stock was poorly inletted. It came apart. Second stock was well done. Foolishly I let it go the other year when I gave up on ever getting back to Africa. I loved mine. I shot a lot of 350's and 400's with Reloaded 15. It was unbelievably accurate for me. I didn't find recoil that bad, but I'm not the sharpest marble in the box. Never got to shoot anything bigger than a groundhog. I'd stick to those little 350's for them. Plenty of penetration If you can lay in a supply of cast bullets and some Trail Boss or 5744, you can have a blast. The brass was easy to form and she was cheap to shoot for a big bore. Wish I still had mine. If I could find another one that I could afford, I'd buy it.
Go for it! Bfly
Be nice and work hard, you never have enough time or friends.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 5,505
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 5,505 |
I like the Ruger and the fact of it having no needless belt, but I have made quite a few Taylors and owned 2 of them myself. They do the 1910 ballistics of the 416 Rigby quite well. 400 grain .416" bullet at 2350. In some guns you can get over 2400, but I see no point in doing it. The Rigby's ballistics are wonderful and need no "improvement".
When the 416 Ruger came out I fully expected it to become the new round to be asked for. So far it has not. Not for any reason I know of, but so far no one has asked me to make a 416 Ruger for them. I have made about four 416 Taylors in the last 8 years.
There is nothing to complain about with either one.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 96
Campfire Greenhorn
|
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 96 |
I built one on a VZ24 Mauser Douglas 24" barrel Boyds laminate stock. Put a Limbsaver recoil pad on it. Shoots great. I used 458 brass and 338 brass before I faound a few 416 headstamped brass. Not very practical for my needs but a nice rifle that will do anything. I think my load is 72 gr Reloader 15 400 gr. Hornady. Same load 72 gr R-15 I use for my 375 Ruger 300 gr Partitions.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Campfire Oracle
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
400's at 2150 or so are fun, 2350 gets a little sporty.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 5,505
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 5,505 |
The 450/400 was just that and was (and still is) a VERY well respected round in Africa. I own a 404 Jeffery and I like to load my bullets to 2250 instead of the Modern 2370 that the Germans load to. I love it's accuracy and I can't think of any game I would be under-gunned for shooting that load.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,055
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,055 |
416 Taylor really started the 416 resurgence, lots of published data on it if you dig. Buried by the Ruger and RM but they all run about the same. Supposedly Winchester looked hard at legitimizing it then had a change of players and proponents, it was too specialized for mass production - money talks, etc
It's a build I'd love to do one day - even bought a reamer for it!!
And these zombies line up and eat from the media’s trough
Cowards CANNOT be free. Nor should they be.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,360
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,360 |
Buried by the Ruger and RM but they all run about the same. Not sure the 416 Ruger is all that popular yet, I wouldn't be surprised if the 416 Taylor is still used more in Africa. No longer a wildcat having a SAAMI proprietary offering at one time by A-Square, it is still fairly popular and performs the same as all 416s do, except the 416 Wby, which is another story. In Africa the 500/416 single and double rifles may now be encountered more than the other 416s. I would rather shoot the Taylor in a compact rifle over the Rem Mag. I see the Rem Mag offering nothing over the Taylor except being less efficient in powder, bolt throw, rifle weight, etc., if that really means anything to anyone. Double Tap (somewhat hot ammo) loads 350gr - 450gr grain loads for the 416 Taylor. i'm thinking about a 416 taylor, anybody shoot one, tell me about them. i'd like a big bore just for fun! Below is a 1975 article by John Wooters who is probably the most noted user of the 416 Taylor on DG. It is by all accounts quite a hammer. Wooters on 416 Taylor
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,448
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,448 |
Case capacity of the Taylor is minimal. The 416 Rem Mag has always been considered low on case cap and it is a good 10 grains larger than the Taylor. The 416 Ruger is only a couple grains smaller than the Rem Mag and should be a more efficient shape. Would believe lower pressure loads are an advantage in a hot climate especially if dealing with DG. A short recap. Length - Capacity and Velocity with 400 grain bullet. 416 WSM 2.050" ----78 grs,-----2300 416 Taylor 2.500" ---92 grs.------2350 416 Remington 2.850" 104 grs.----2400 416 Ruger 2.570" ----102 grs.----2400 416 Murphy 2.570" ---104 grs. ----2400 416 Dakota 2.850" ----110 grs.----2500 416 RUM 2.860" ------118 grs,-----2550 416 Rigby 2.900" -----128 grs.-----2400 (original ballistics) 416 Weatherby 2.913"-134 grs.----2600 Chart from here- http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com...a-416-Taylor-comparitive-case-dimensions
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,701
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,701 |
.... The 416 Ruger is only a couple grains smaller than the Rem Mag and should be a more efficient shape. Would believe lower pressure loads are an advantage in a hot climate especially if dealing with DG. A short recap. Length - Capacity and Velocity with 400 grain bullet. 416 WSM 2.050" ----78 grs,-----2300 416 Taylor 2.500" ---92 grs.------2350 416 Remington 2.850" 104 grs.----2400 416 Ruger 2.570" ----102 grs.----2400 416 Murphy 2.570" ---104 grs. ----2400 416 Dakota 2.850" ----110 grs.----2500 416 RUM 2.860" ------118 grs,-----2550 416 Rigby 2.900" -----128 grs.-----2400 (original ballistics) 416 Weatherby 2.913"-134 grs.----2600 Chart from here- http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com...a-416-Taylor-comparitive-case-dimensionsOne of my reasons for selecting the Ruger over the Taylor. the Taylor has to operate at higher pressures to overcome its limited capacity. Also, the Ruger velocities are most often reported from a 20" barrel. It is easy for me to hit 2400 fps with a 400 at loads below book max in my 24" barrel. Again, its biggest attraction was the ability to be used in a standard 3.400" magazine. That made it very popular among folk building them on Mauser 98 actions.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,360
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,360 |
Case capacity of the Taylor is minimal. Minimal for what? Again article above shows Taylor duplicates 416 Rigby in the field in Africa with no worries from tropic temps and no pressure signs pushing three 400 gr bullets averaging 2,400 fps. Article is 43 years old, imagine how good the 416 Taylor is today with today's bullet and powder technology. Back then a 400 grain solid from a 416 Taylor fully penetrated an elephant's brain from any angle (not knocking the 416 Ruger, it is no better or worse than the Taylor) with today's components. Larger platforms with the same bullet and bullet weights having more powder and higher velocity than 2,400 fps may show a decrease in their ability to penetrate. That may be why some PHs on DG like heavy for caliber bullets at slower speeds (.375 w/350 gr at 2,250 fps; .416 w/450 gr at 2,200 fps and .458 w/500gr at 2,100 fps. There is a point of diminishing returns on penetration when higher velocity is utilized. John Linebaugh has been one of the foremost authorities on studying heavy projectiles, velocity and penetration. Its funny that the outcomes are the opposite of what one would traditionally expect.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,158 Likes: 3
Campfire Oracle
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,158 Likes: 3 |
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,448
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,448 |
Rossimp, As much as I respect Wooters work and have enjoyed his writing, looking at primers and brass is not an accurate means of determining pressure. Other means are now available to writers which are accepted as reasonably accurate. IIRC, Linebaugh's penetration tests were conducted in wet newspaper which is a questionable test medium. 416 Rem Mag runs 62k psi to make 2400fps, 12% less case capacity of the Taylor can't be good.
|
|
|
|
474 members (007FJ, 160user, 17CalFan, 12344mag, 10gaugeman, 10ring1, 42 invisible),
2,177
guests, and
1,163
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,192,377
Posts18,488,476
Members73,970
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|