Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa Dogzapper, let's hear about the 30-06 in Africa.........

Great thread Allen... thanks for sharing Steve! I'm sure JJ could chime in with more dismal failures of the 30-06.

Seems to me there are three types of guys that use an 06:

1) Those just starting out who's Uncle Joe tells them; "buy a 30-06."

2) Those that listened to Uncle Joe, bought a 30-06, found it worked and stuck with it because they're not rifle loonies.

3) Those who go back to the 30-06 after a couple decades of dicking with dozens of rifles and cartridges who realize Uncle Joe was a pretty smart fella after all!

Even though I don't have an Uncle Joe I'm in the last camp!

I love the 30-06.If I were limited to one cartridge for northern B.C hunting the 06 would be it.For all the reasons above.

I never owned a .30-06, but Steve, you are not required to pack ammo and rifle separately. Put them together and if you have one, you have both.

Brent - who does not now, and never has owned a .30-06

Allen: I just found an "in the box" Safari Grade (no salt) 3006 that a friend of mine'd had in his safe for years! Finally. It only took a year to find one but it was worth the wait! jorge

Steve, my only gripe about that fine day on the Clackamas was that when I went to fetch the spotting scope, you decided to press the trigger, and I didn't have the pleasure of watching you iron-out your buck! All that was left for me to do was to help you get him out of that steep, muddy, wet, slippery, log-strew clear-cut!

Brent, you can't count on exactly WHAT the airlines are going to ask you to do in terms of packing your ammo. Going on two years ago, I shipped a 300 Win. Mag and a 416 Rem. Mag. to Tanzania in a trunk-style aluminum rifle case. KLM also allowed me to secure all of the ammunition for both rifles in the top compartment of that same case. No problems, other than the fact that my case got the daylights beaten out of it somewhere between Seattle and Dar Es Salaam.

Last year, Delta insisted that my ammunition be packed in my duffle, and not in my guncase. By the time we touched down in Harare, my 338 Win. Mag. arrived without damage, but my duffle was nowhere to be found. This was the second time in the last 12 years that I've had either my rifles or the bag containing my ammo not show up when I did. The next day, we flew out to camp. I made due with the clothes that were on my back and in my carry-on, plus what I could borrow from my hunting partner. Since he also brought a 338 Win. Mag., I hunted with a box of his ammunition for the next five days, until my duffle was finally found and flown out to camp with some newly-arriving clients.

That's why non-standard or poorly-established cartridges aren't a good idea for Africa, as Steve detailed previously. The only way around some of these issues is to make sure that your cartridge headstamp matches the caliber designation on your rifle barrel, and then only go with something exotic if your hunting partner is going to take a rifle of the same caliber, along with the same load.

If you're going it alone, and I have every time so far except for last season, by all means go with a standard factory chambering, such as the 30-06 that we've been discussing........

AD

Not to highjack this thread but it would be nice, convenient, common sense, for the airlines to standardize their rules & regs regarding transporting firearms and ammo-the where and how. No guessing; no last minute changes; no employees not knowing the rules or waffling over your stuff.

Here's a situation that could be solved by pressing the "Easy Button" if only they'd do it.

Jorge, now THAT's a find! I had a Safari grade 30-06 a number of years ago. The one I had was built in 1962 or '63 (I think!), and it still retained the steel bottommetal. It shot pretty well with the first load I put through it, but for some stupid reason I later sent it on down the road. I should have kept it!

I'm gearing up to have a custom 30-06 built. The last custom '06 I had was rathered screwed-up by its maker, and I haven't had a really good and decent 30-06 in the safe that I wanted to hunt with in quite some time. I'm going to now rectify that situation.............

Goodnews, a lot of these airlines and their employees simply don't understand or like guns, hunting, or hunters, and I think this is what's at the root of this lack of standardization. They fear what they don't understand. Because of this, the best we can do is to stay adaptable and versatile.....

AD

I cannot imagine an easier to shoot, more functional cartridge today. My 30/06 is a loaner rifle for a lot of hunters each year. This post was put up about a year ago, but I found it and thought I would share it again in this thread. I'm not sure if the photo's will transfer with the cut and paste method I used.
-----------------------------------------------------------------


As Promised I have recovered and recorded a lot of information on the bullets used this season.

First some of the facts and details regarding the loads and the gun used.

Rifle: Model 70 Winchester PacNor 23� barrel in standard 30/06 cartridge

Winchester Brass
Federal 210M primers
IMR4350 powder 58 grains
Chronographed at 2900 plus at 55deg F

Game shot by 7 different hunters six male one female

6 warthogs
12 impala
6 Kudu bulls
1 Kudu cow
5 Zebra
3 waterbuck
6 wildebeest
4 Red Hartebeest
4 Blesbok
2 Nyala
1 Steenbok
1 Gemsbok

51 total animals. One was not recovered, a Blue Wildebeest was lost although a confirmed hit with a short blood trail.

Shortest shot was an impala at about 40 feet, longest shots were a Zebra at a laser measured 237 yards, Blue Wildebeest at 198 yards, Kudu Bull at 225, and Impala at 177 yards all measured with my LRF 1200.

35 were shot with the Barnes TSX bullets. 7 were recovered
6 were shot with the Federal Fusion factory loads
6 were shot with Hornady Interbonds
4 were shot with the PMC factory loads

My unbiased assessment is as follows. However I must first say that I was admittedly very skeptical of the Barnes bullets based on my prior extensive experience with the original X bullet design. I must also admit to not being very impressed with the Fusions lack of velocity at only 2700plus fps. The PMC bullets were on hand and used to share the difference between factory cup and core bullets and premium handloads. The Interbonds were already a well known performer and had a lot of respect from me.




My rifle was zeroed with the X bullets and shooting hole touching groups at 100 meters. Prior to departure I shot a three shot group to foul the barrel. Upon arrival I shot a 2 shot group to prove the travel did not compromise the scope adjustments. There were 5 shots now through the barrel. Each hunter using this rifle also shot it before their hunt started. The Fusion, PMC, and Interbond bullets would shoot into about a 3+� group mixed POI's with the settings used for the TSX bullets.

The Federal Fusion Bullets: Underpowered for bigger game. The lack of velocity and the unpredictable bullet shapes left me unimpressed. Although they held together they under penetrated and fell short of my desired performance hopes. It�s an excellent inexpensive deer and smaller big game bullet but does not have the kind of killing power I expect with a 30/06 using other loads and bullets. A good choice for deer, impala, blesbok, but I would not likely choose them for anything bigger or even on the tough little warthog. I stopped using this bullet for further shooting on game based on the early limited performance on the recovered game and bullets. With the shallow penetration and oddly shaped mushrooms I was not confident to shoot game as tough as wildebeest, gemsbok and zebra with these bullets.

PMC Bullets: As can be expected with these bullets being Cup and Core design they will kill about like the Fusion bullets. If everything is perfect they work fine, but when something goes wrong they will not provide the edge I would like to see in my bullets. All of them failed to stay in one piece and all lost much if not all functional weight retention.

Hornady Interbonds: Work flawless and 100% predictable 4 out of the 6 were recovered and all had massive expansion with great weight retention. Another hunter used these bullets in his 30/06 AI and had identical performace and recovery percentages as my standard 30/06. The AI version was about 90fps faster at 3000fps. A better bullet would be difficult to choose. I have already posted dozens of pictures and text on these bullets in the past. This years experience is the same. It's a class act by Hornady and difficult to choose another bullet over this design.

The Barnes TSX bullet: Well this was the one that drove this project for me. Although I am very pleased with the performance. I am very happy with the results of so many deadly shots on big tough game animals. I�m still skeptical about some of what I have seen. The 7 recovered bullets look almost identical and have from what I can see 100% weight retention. Not a single petal was broken off and all expanded from the close range 40 yard shots to the longer near 250 yard shots. Some exits were massive and the blood was flowing freely. Others showed me a bore diameter hole and not a drop of blood from the exit. I�m stumped as to how these bullets exit with an exact bore diameter hole? Yet some others have a huge exit hole. I had about a 20% recovered bullet rate from these bullets. The lowest recovery percentage of any bullet I have ever used. Exits are the norm with the TSX. I had a bullet zip clean through the shoulders of a Big Zebra at 237 yards which included the vertebra and one scapula just above the shoulder. This is enough mass that I have seen it stop a 270 grain Swift A frame from a 375HH plenty of times. Yet a 165 grain TSX from a 30/06 passed through. 4 zebra were shot with the 30/06. One needed a follow up shot, all 4 of the TSX bullets passed through these zebra. Only the one follow up shot was inside one of them. Zebra, Gemsbok, and Blue Wildebeest are about the best bullet stopping plains game we have. All three species were shot clean through with this bullet. Few provided a good blood trail often due to the bore diameter exit holes. Those that had good blood trails when recovered always had good exit holes too.

Here is an Impala with a noticeable exit hole but you can clearly see there is no blood flow.



I have 4 other TSX bullets I could photo and post here. However they are identical to the first two in this photo. They would be difficult to tell apart had I not marked them before I left! The only oddball in the group is the one from the zebra. It was recovered inside the heart. It has a wrinkled petal which you can see in this photo. All the others are exactly the same.


The rifle was not cleaned, barrel swabbed out, or oiled during the entire trip. On my last evening I hunted hard for a warthog. I walked from 2:30 PM til dark about 6PM I was hunting alone and looking for a whopper warthog I had seen twice in the prior several weeks I had been hunting here. In the closing moments of light about 5:55 I saw what looked like a shooter. At 75 yards he was trotting parallel to the road I was on, and slightly quartering away from me through the bush. When the warthog cleared a bush and left me with a fleeting moment between bushes I leveled the upper crosshair and touched off the trigger when it was layed behind the last rib. It appeared as if I rolled him over but the muzzle flash was too bright. I walked to the spot and saw a spot of blood. Then there in the flashlight beam just ahead he layed dead. The blood flow was significant and the exit was through the opposite scapula.

Several times I tested the accuracy during the week with targets. Each time the bullets were into the 1� square �bullseye� on the target at 100 meters. With nearly 60 shots fired during this trip and no cleaning I trusted this rifle and bullet combination on the last moment shot at the warthog. There was simply no fouling problems with these bullets and this barrel!



I would certainly feel a whole lot better if the exits looked like they had more consistency in size. However I have also come to another probably arguable conclusion with the TSX and the 30/06. I would much prefer to have a 30/06 with this bullet and a rangefinder then a 300mag of any make with cup and core bullets and no rangefinder. I feel 100% confident that these bullets will penetrate and shoot accurately as far as I would like to shoot. Say 400 yards or so. If you know the distance with the rangefinder hitting the target is not complicated or risky with low wind. These 165 grain TSX bullets in a 30/06 will out perform a 300 magnum with a standard cup and core bullet every time. Sure you can up to range in a 300 magnum and use the 180�s. However if the 30/06 killed 50 of 51 tough big game animals I�m not sure moving to the 300 mag is a practical choice if you want more power. I think moving to the 338 is much more logical. If shooting long range 450 yards plus is the reason then would I agree. However a rangefinder with a 30/06 is still a very do-able shot with these TSX bullets on a calm day.

So do I switch now from the Hornady Interbonds I love so much to the TSX bullets? ����Wow talk about a tough choice! The TSX shoots a tiny bit better in Accuracy, the tips don�t deform, they seat very tight in the brass with the groves. They don�t have the 100% internal damage consistency that the Interbonds have, but they are close and I cannot prove or explain why the holes are bore diameter on some of the game. I do have a photo coming of the exit on a zebra. It looks like the stallion was shot with a small broadhead. It has 4 slices about �� long each. It�s a brilliant exit hole. Why don�t they all show this? Maybe 35 big animals under nearly identical conditions is still not enough information? I will say that If I only saw 10-12 of the best exits I would swear these were the best bullets on earth no question, hands down, end of story. I may yet agree to this statement. However there were those few that leave me wondering why a tiny little exit hole as if the bullet did not open or the petals all sheared off? I will continue to use them until the first time I find one un-opened bullet inside an animal. If that never happens I may not use anything else in this rifle. I think they make a better large big game, Elk, bear, zebra, wildebeest, gemsbok, eland, waterbuck, moose, etc bullet then the Interbond because the exits at least in theory should provide more blood flow. I think the interbonds will provide much more explosive impact and internal trauma on deer sized game like antelope, sheep, blesbok, impala, etc.

They do not have a similar POI or load to shoot well from my rifle. They are as incompatible with a single scope setting as possible. I will have to pick one and stick with it. So for now I�ll stay with the TSX. As far as I�m concerned the TSX does more with the available power of the 30/06 then the Interbond does. The much higher frequency of exits is a benefit to good blood trails. I accept my weakness as a confirmed bullet recovery junky even though I know they should all exit.

I�m not sure you can make a mistake in choosing between the 165 grain AFrame, Interbond, Accubond, TSX, or Partition, The one that shoots best in your barrel and gets a minimum level of functional velocity should do fine. I guess having to choose between the 165 grain Interbond and the 165 grain TSX for me is actually a good problem to have.

AD, I have also noted a great deal of variability in where the airlines want your ammo. KLM let me keep it with the guns in my TUFFpack. BA wanted it together in the same container when I departed DFW but then were aghast in London that I had been told to do this. The usual rule is separate from gun in duffle which allows for the arrival without ammo scenario that you mentioned.

What I do wrt to firearms & ammo, I go to the respective airlines' website as well as TSA and print their own rules. Two copies. One goes in my duffle bag the other in my rifle case with the requisite portions highlighted in yellow. I had this issue one time and all I did was shove the intructions in the agent's face and that shut her up. I split my ammo and put at least one box/rifle in my rifle case and the rest in my bag. When my wife travels with me, I split it yet again so I have it in three different places. jorge

I have used the .30-06 loaded with 180's of various sorts in quite a few places around the world, sometimes with bullets even less-PC than Hornady Interlocks, and it has never failed on any sort of game out to 400+ yards.

John Barsness

Interesting. Delta was very happy with my ammo being in my case and so was Air Namib. This just last summer.

My headstamps say .348 Win. My rifle says nothing, and the chamber permits only .45-2 6/10.

Brent

In 2002 I had a reverse situation at the ticket counter where the young Delta ticket agent didn't give a rip about properly tagging my gun case, wouldn't listen to me, and simply sent it on down to the luggage Gorillas.

Knowing it was highly likely the gun case would never reach me in Jo'burg, much less Atlanta, I went hunting for the ticket counter Supervisor, and using my highly refined begging skills got the Sup to call for my gun case. Together, along with the recovered rifles, we went back to the ticket agent and the Sup went through the proper process of correctly tagging both the inside and the outside of the gun case to indicate the rifles had passed airline inspection.

Never thought I'd have to plead with an airline to actually inspect my gun case...

Brent

Most of the airlines won't let you put it together. I've had to separate it many times at their request. Otherwise what you said makes sense, they just won't always let you. What difference it makes I have no idea, they are both in the same area of the plane anyway. I also had an airlines employee go ballistic in Denver once when he found some 'flammable' bore cleaner. This same bottle had already been packed in the same carrier literally around the world and had over 15000 frequent flyer miles. I told him several of the women probably had more flammable hair spray in their carry on luggage and that just pissed him off. Then he said he had to get a superior(which shouldn't have been hard to find considering his obvious lack of sense) to OK it. I told him I had to board a plane, throw it in the trash, he decided this plan was acceptable. I had some people behind me he was going off on because he found a loose live round in with their rifles, they were on their way home from a dog shooting in SD. His live round I pointed out was a case with a bullet seated they had saved to set up a loading die, had no primer or powder in it.

Good post JJ.I always enjoy reading your stuff.I've learned alot from reading your posts...

Thanks
mike

Big + 1

BMT

Wowsa JJ that is a kick butt real world real experience report!

"DWS" (darn well said)

Thx

Mark D

My father in law took his weatherby 30-06 to africa for his plains game hunt. I believe he shot partitions and had great luck.

I am just thankful that Steelhead hasn't seen this Dogzappers comments on the zebra's or his partner's (hard to tell which one he was talking about) long black unit. ;-)

Steve, was the 30-06 you used the same one you used to shoot your ram with?

Friend Partagas,

The long black unit belonged to the zebra. For a manic moment, I fantasized about shooting it off (just think of the arteries feeding it), but reason over-ruled my insanity and I placed the boolit beneath the ear.

I killed my dall sheep with a Winchester Model 70, which broke a trigger halfway through the hunt. We had to walk a day and a half back to spike camp to get to my replacement trigger unit. I never hunted with a M-70 again.

I used a Remington M-700 Classic for my first hunt in Zimbabwe and a full-house custom Model-700 (Barreled and stocked by Melvin Forbes) for my second safari. Both PUSH-FEED rifles were obviously chambered for the .30-'06.

I have fired literally hundreds of thousands of rounds through M-700s and have never experienced a failure. Not one. They work...and the .30-'06 works

I would love to be the PR guy is the .30-'06 was announced today. "The astounding new 7.62X63 is a beltless cartridge that fills the enormous ballictic void between the .308 WCF and the .300 WinMag. It is TODAY'S PERFECT CARTRIDGE."

Steve