Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Gunsmithing Rem 700 not cocking on bolt lift

What is the fix for a 700 action that does not cock when the bolt handle is lifted? In this case it’s not a trigger adjustment problem. When the bolt handle is all the way up it doesn’t force the bolt back far enough to re-engage the trigger. Is this normally fixed by removing the bolt handle and moving it forward if there’s room? This is a new 700sa. Thanks.

Have you taken it apart to see if there is a broken spring or piece of metal jamming the mechanism? After removing the bolt, I usually use the sliding glass door frame and stick a dime in the bolt and then unscrew it...

No problems with the bolt itself. It does cock, but only with a little rearward movement to release pressure on the sear safety cam, then forward and down. Just lifting the bolt handle straight up all the way does not move the bolt back far enough to release that pressure on the sear safety cam and allow the trigger to reset like it should.

The timing affects the movement of the bolt to the rear, but the ramp that pulls the firing pin back should clear the cocking piece easily. That should release the pressure and allow the trigger weight spring to move the connector.

I suspect it is in the trigger.

Sear engagement?

I had one that the trigger was adjusted too light and it did the same exact thing.
Had to put more poundage on the trigger to get it to stop.

Just get a Timney.

I screwed with a varmint special a few weeks ago that had the 1st gen Mark Pro trigger , I tried to lighten the pull and in the process the sear would not engage. I had to get a ernie spring to get it 2.5 lbs. and the trigger still felt like crap.

I should have bought a trigger tech and been done with it.

Just throwing this out there....have you removed the firing pin assembly from the bolt body? If so did you screw it in all the way or by chance are you one revolution off and need to turn it in one more full turn???? Never tried it but one revolution from where it should be could leave it too far back to cock?? Just something to check!

Cleaning the trigger parts and using dry lube will usually fix that issue. A lighter spring will also be needed... and it will be a better trigger than the Timney.

Timney

mod7rem,
You aren't operating the bolt on a Mauser or Winchester.

Striker to Sear "HAND OFF" is the issue as any Remington to date is cock on open & cock on close(unless it's been modified).

Lift/rotate the bolt out of battery.
Firing pin is cocked/into detent radius @ 6o'clock in bolt body.
Pull bolt aft 1/8" to 1/4"
Trigger connector is reset.
Push forward & rotate bolt into battery.
Firing pin to sear safety bar is re-cocked .040"-.060" upon rotating into battery.

It's not Rocket Science!

" You aren't operating the bolt on a Mauser or a Winchester ". This is another way of saying, "you aren't operating the bolt on a rifle on which the extractor cam is located in the right place". If the rifle is made so the camming service contacts the receiver before the sear hits the cocking piece, the rifle is less likely to fire when the bolt is slammed shut, extraction is better, and, of course, the rifle will cock on opening. If Remington claims it was designed this way, this is company-speak for " we like to build these things to sloppy tolerances but it will be just fine if you get used to it and expect less." GD

This 700 sa that I’m talking about belongs to a friend of mine. He just bought the new action and had a barrel installed and asked me if I would mount a scope for him. This is the first time I’ve handled a Rem 700 or 7 that wouldn’t cock by lifting bolt all the way up and straight back down. I started with the trigger, which is an older style that locks bolt with safety on. I adjusted the trigger and found no problems there.
When I compare this 700 with my model 7, the bolt handle positions are different. My model 7 bolt handle is nice and tight to the receiver and gets full camming action when handle is lifted so the bolt is pushed back far enough to to lose contact with the sear safety bar and allow the trigger to re-set without having to actually pull the bolt back at all. The 700 handle is not as tight to the receiver and only gets partial can ramp contact so it doesn’t move the bolt backwards as far.
I don’t see how a different trigger will fix the problem on the 700 unless the measurements on the sear safety bar are different. It looks like the bolt handle has to be removed and repositioned.

OP,
ANY Remington & most Custom Clones are cock on open & cock on close unless they have been re-worked for striker to sear hand off.

Changing the trigger group or firing pin or firing pin striker will decrease or increase striker to sear hand off to some degree.

The measurements are present-measure it-out of battery,in battery & pin fall.

Locating & Timing the bolt handle for primary extraction will NOT change striker to sear hand off timing.

The hell it won't. If the camming surface contacts the receiver , on closing, before the cocking piece contacts the sear, you will have a rifle which cocks entirely on the upstroke. In recent years, more and more, I'm seeing 700's which have ZERO primary extraction and they certainly do not cock when the handle is lifted. Once the extraction camming surface is located as it should have been in the first place, lifting the handle starts extraction to a substantial degree AND the cocking piece is moved back far enough that the rifle will cock whether or not the bolt is withdrawn any further. GD.

greydog,
WRONG ANSWER.
(fix 10,000+ bolts/handles & get back w/ me as you haven't a CLUE)

Primary Extraction has NOTHING to do with firing pin cocking on any bolt action.

Once you rotate a Remington bolt handle out of battery you start to re-cock the firing pin.
(hint- that's what the cam surface is that's cut into the aft end of the bolt body.)
The firing pin STRIKER "detent's" into the radius cut at 6o'clock position.

Tip the rifle muzzle down w/ a cleared action.
Bolt slides fwd.
TAKE NOTE to how much protrusion you have from striker to shroud.

Push fwd & rotate bolt into battery.

TAKE NOTE to how much protrusion you have from striker to shroud.

Not my first rodeo
&
It's not Rocket Science

Sorry, but the primary extraction cramming surface as you call it has no effect on cocking. The cocking force is entirely the result of force applied to the cramming surface cut in the bolt body. That is all rotational via the bolt handle.

There may be some confusion in how I described the problem. There’s no problem with the camming ramp that is machined into the bolt body. When the bolt handle is raised, the firing pin assembly is definitely being moved back into position. But, the problem is the bolt body hasn’t moved rearward far enough to release pressure on the trigger assembly and allow it to reset and hold back the firing pin assembly when the bolt is lifted all the way up then back down. I think the problem is that the ramp on the receiver and ramp on the bolt handle are not getting full contact while lifting the bolt, and because of that the bolt body isn’t being moved rearward as far as it should be when the bolt handle is lifted. If the handle was welded/soldered a little farther forward on the bolt body, there would be max contact between those ramp surfaces, and the bolt body would be moved farther rearward when the handle is lifted all the way up.

Why else would other 700 actions fully cock the firing pin back into position, ready to fire, just by lifting the handle straight up then back down again but this particular action won’t without pulling the bolt back a little farther? I doesn’t make sense that both scenarios would be considered normal operation.

As Dan said the two functions are happening at the same time but unrelated. You stated the trigger weight spring had been "adjusted" and you likely went to a very light setting on a stiff spring.

The bolt body has moved back far enough but the spring is set so light it is not resetting. Raise the trigger pull or change to a lighter weight, longer range (at the lighter weight setting) spring and it will reset sooner than it has to, again.

Bingo!

If the extraction camming surface is located correctly, you do not have to withdraw the bolt because the cam has done that for you when you lifted the handle. It is true that part of the cocking takes place when the bolt is closed but it is not true that it is normal to have to with draw the bolt for the cocking piece to clear the sear. Also, if the first contact when the bolt is pushed forward is between the cocking piece and sear, you will have a rifle which is likely to slam fire or the sear or sear connector is likely to be damaged if the bolt is operated briskly.
In a perfect world, the extraction cam should engage immediately after the same degree of rotation where the locking lugs clear the closing ramps on the seats. The cam will then withdraw the bolt enough that the cocking piece will clear the sear (before the nose of the cocking piece drops into the detent) while also beginning extraction of the fired cartridge.
The point is, since movement of the bolt is necessary to cock the rifle, anything which moves the bolt does, indeed, affect how re-cocking is accomplished.If the extraction cam is moving the bolt to the rear, as it should, the rifle will re-cock by simply lifting and lowering the bolt handle. If the extraction cam has too much clearance so that it does not move the bolt rearward, the rifle will not re-cock by simply raising and lowering the handle; you will have to withdraw the bolt a little. It also may not extract all that well.
Dans40x,
I'm sorry to have offended you. I have not worked on 10,000 Remington bolts but I have worked on many hundreds over forty-plus years of gunsmithing. I have also built replacement bolts for Remington 40X's and 700's for custom rifles so I'm not totally clueless. GD

Sorry, but you are wrong there. the primary extraction cam does not move the bolt to the rear before the cocking piece is moved far enough to the rear to clear the sear. If it did as you suggest I could not take any 700 bolt and adjust the trigger way light and make it not cock on the simple bolt lift and close and then fix it by adding a bit of weight back on the trigger. And especially when doing it with rifles which have been properly timed.

This action that I’m talking about has a properly adjusted trigger with a 3 lb trigger pull weight. If the same problem is still happening with a properly adjusted trigger, would you then think that it is not properly timed? Or still consider it normal to have to pull the bolt back a little further after lifting the bolt handle all the way up? Thanks.

Listen to Dan, he knows absolutely what he is talking about. IMO, you probably have set your trigger lower than it should go because the springs are heavy and stiff. They lack range to be adjusted light and still provide enough range to reliably move the trigger when the bolt is lifted. A lighter trigger spring will be shorter in compression at the desired 3# setting so it will have more consistent pressure during cocking where the heavier spring will not be compressed enough to move the connector back. Who adjusted the trigger?

The trigger cocking is not a timing issue.

Of course you could. If the trigger is adjusted too light to hold, it is adjusted too light to hold. It matters not whether or not the rifle is capable of being cocked by simply raising and lowering the handle. A rifle which does allow the cocking piece to be lowered onto the sear connector will allow a lighter setting than one which catches the sear before the bolt is fully forward and contacting at the bridge but if there is insufficient spring pressure on the trigger or insufficient sear engagement, it will follow down, regardless. If the extraction cam does not retract the bolt enough to clear the sear, you can adjust the trigger until the cows come home (although, just what cows might have to do with it, I can't really say!) and it still won't recock unless you withdraw the bolt slightly.
There is certainly some truth in the assertion that how the bolt is manipulated can also affect the actual cocking sequence. If one tends to put a little forward pressure on the bolt handle, the extraction cam MUST move the bolt back to clear the sear. If one tends to put a slight pressure to the rear, the bolt will naturally move to the rear enough to clear. My feeling is this: even if one pushes hard forward as the bolt handle is lifted and lowered, the extraction cam should move the bolt to the rear enough to reset the sear or sear connector. GD

mod7rem,
Any Remington 600/660/673/Xp-100/Xp-100R/XR-100/Seven/722/721/700/40X of OEM design are COCK on OPEN when rotating the bolt out of battery.
Pushing fwd/cycling the bolt into battery utilizes a COCK on CLOSE to reset the trigger/connector/firing pin striker.

STRIKER TO SEAR HAND OFF can be re-worked to operate by means that you have been lucky to have not had an accidental discharge to date.
(stop practicing that maneuver before someone gets hurt/killed & wants to sue Remington for being stupid)

Bolt Handle TIMING has nothing to do with firing pin cocking or trigger group operation.


The biggest variable w/ any Remington is the bolt body "TUBE" length prior to pinning & induction brazing the head/lugs to the tube.
The second variable is the changes in bolt handle design from 1962 to present.
Current production "short cam" bolt handles as I've coined them, can NOT be TIMED properly by silver brazing the handle closer to the receiver since there are 5 aspects to TIMING a bolt & handle.

Just to clarify then: Is it your contention that the trigger parts, specifically, the sear or sear connector, should be the first thing to make contact when the bolt is pushed forward? Further, do you also contend that the location of the bolt handle, specifically, the camming surface, does NOT influence whether or not the sear/connector is the first point of contact when the bolt is pushed forward?
I only ask because it is apparent there is a communication issue at work here. Either one or both of us is not understanding the other. GD

greydog,
It's not a communication issue between treads,it's a comprehension issue brought upon yourself.

As previously noted-
An UNMOLESTED Remington is COCK on OPEN & COCK on CLOSED by design.

The bolt handle &/or primary extraction TIMING has NOTHING to do with firing pin striker/cocking piece or trigger group mechanics.

Yes,the STRIKER to SEAR "HAND OFF" TIMING is easily remedied & is more voodoo for most, compared to handle timing.

All bolt actions are, to a certain extent, cock on open and cock on close, by design. This includes Mausers, Springfields, Enfields, Winchesters, Howas, Rugers, etc. However, all of them also "hand off" the striker to the sear AFTER the extraction cam surface contacts the receiver. Second stage of the cocking operation occurs as the handle is turned down and the bolt is cammed forward.
I checked all of the 700's and 40x's in my shop (nine of them) along with a clone, and all but one accomplished the "hand-off as the handle was lowered; not as the bolt was pushed forward. The one which handed off as the bolt was pushed forward is a new, stainless action. Of the others, one doesn't really count because it has a home made bolt in it, the handle is integral, and I made it to maximise primary extraction. So I have one which hands off as the bolt is pushed forward and seven which hand off as the handle is turned down. One in which the sear picks up the striker before the extraction cam surface touches and seven which touch at the cam first. My question then becomes, which is as it should be? I should add that the single example also has very little primary extraction; this occurring only during the last five degrees of bolt rotation. It sure seems like this is related to the location and timing of the handle. It also seems like on this particular specimen, trigger function is somewhat affected since it has to be set up with considerably more sear engagement or the striker will follow down if the bolt is operated briskly. Is this just coincidental?
I have seen numerous Remingtons where the striker was altered to effect hand off as the handle was lowered rather than when the bolt was pushed forward but I always felt this was approaching the problem from the wrong direction.
Though I am, truly, an old dog, I am always eager to learn new tricks and look upon this as an opportunity to try and do so. GD

Not trying to argue but I’m a little confused by this part. What are you referring to?

- having a live round in the chamber with the firing pin lowered and then just raising the bolt handle up then back down to cock it ready to fire? If that’s the reason, it’s not something I do. I either have one in the chamber with safety on or nothing in the chamber. The only time I use the raise and lower to cock the firing pin is when testing or adjusting a trigger or if I’m dryfiring to get the feel of a trigger before I shoot a live round.

- or do you mean that my model 7’s ability to cock the trigger ready to fire, just by raising the bolt all the way up and back down again without having to pull the bolt any farther back than the extraction cam already moves it? Does this condition make it more likely to have an accidental discharge?
If thats the reason, that would also be confusing because every Remington 700 and 7 I’ve ever owned or handled has worked this way. Same goes for my other rifles which are tikkas, kimbers and savages.



When I noticed this 700sa action wouldn’t cock the firing pin by just cycling the bolt handle up and down, I suspected the trigger might not be adjusted properly. I backed out the 3 adjustment screws and adjusted all 3. I did the engagement first, then over travel, then started playing with trigger pull weights. I tried heavy trigger pull and it made no difference and I wound up setting it at 3lbs.

My question is, what is the fix for this issue if the trigger adjustment is not the problem? Or is it normal for some Remington’s to do this and others not? Thanks.

mod7rem,
Your trigger adjusting routine is dangerous at best.
Cease & desist until you have a clue what you are doing.


greydog,
Once again-
Bolt handle TIMING has nothing associated w/ firing pin TIMING in a Remington.
Break out the precision instruments-
With bolt rotated out of battery - - firing pin is cocked.
COCK ON OPEN
Indicate protrusion from aft end of firing pin striker to firing pin shroud which Rem calls a PLUG.
Annotate that number to the nearest thousandth of an inch(.000")
With a clear chamber,tip rifle muzzle down & let bolt slide fwd.
Slightly PUSH fwd & rotate bolt into battery.
COCK ON CLOSE
Indicate protrusion from aft end of firing pin striker to firing pin shroud.
Annotate that number to the nearest thousandth of an inch.(.000")

STRIKER TO SEAR HAND OFF TIMING

Average dimensions that you will notice depending on vintage are
cocked= +.015"
battery= +.060"
fired= -.120"

Any Remington w/angled sear to striker engagement surfaces by design is unlike any military square cut sear/striker arrangement by design which allows lifting the bolt handle to re-cock the firing pin in a battlefield scenario/situation unlike a COCK on CLOSE design.(M98/M96/'03/'03A3-A4/P17/SMLE)

You are missing the point entirely Dan. I know a portion of the cocking is done on bolt closure. This is the case on every bolt action of which I'm aware. The question I am asking, the question which, so far, you have declined to answer is this: Is it proper for the extraction cam to withdraw the bolt sufficiently to permit the sear to reset? Also, when the bolt is pushed forward, is it proper for the extraction camming surface to contact before the cocking piece contacts the sear? Alternatively, should the cocking piece contact the sear first? The Model 70 Winchester uses an angled sear surface and yet it is considered proper that the extraction cam contact first when the bolt is pushed forward. Canjar admonished gunsmiths to ensure this was the case when fitting his triggers to the Model 70. Otherwise, he said, trigger function would be compromised. He said the same thing about 700's. Apparently, he didn't know that what happened at the extraction cam had no effect on the trigger at all.
As I said, I am fully aware that a portion of the cocking sequence takes place on bolt closure. My contention is that, when things are as they should be, this portion of the operation takes place when the bolt is turned down; as is the case on a Mauser, Winchester, Springfield etc. I contend that this final cocking of the rifle should only take place when pushing the bolt forward in those designs which are designed to be cock on closing like Enfields, Lee Enfields, '91,'93,'96 mausers etc. If Remingtons are supposed to be a cock-on-closing action, I had better get to work and fix those that I have which are not. I can't grind the extraction cam back since that won't affect cocking anyway and I would hate to lose my primary extraction. Maybe I could recut the cocking cam so it would not cam the cocking piece back so far; more like the Enfield. Then I can have a real cock-on-closing Remington. I won't have to worry about the sear engagement being insufficient to handle the shock of the bolt being slammed home because that is, apparently, not a thing. GD

greydog,
Are you capable of indicating or guessing to reply?
ALL of your Remington's are cock on close unless someone has reworked pieces/parts.
No,not all actions are cock on open & cock on close.

Your Winny 70 is a bad rework of M98/'03's w/ angled striker/sear configuration copying the military counterparts, so yes you are able to lift/rotate the bolt to re-cock the firing pin.. aka military action.

Canjar &/or Kenyon trigger groups, IMO aren't worth a $10 dollar bill....sloppy/non-repeatable w/ a shoe as wide as a loader bucket.


From the 1940's to the present, what has changed from the 722/721 to 1962's redesign to the 700?


When bolt/handle/striker/sear are properly TIMED your Rem will be COCK on OPEN.....ONLY & your elected trigger pull will be repeatable as an 2 stage trigger group.

Finally, you managed to answer the question; almost. You seem to have admitted that it is proper for the Remington to be able to cock on open when everything is as it should be. It only took four pages of BS and you blowing smoke to accomplish this.
We now know (in reality, we have known from the outset) that a properly timed bolt will allow the 700 to cock on open. This could have been revealed as part of a civil discussion, early on, but your default response to everything is to ridicule and denigrate. Now that we have gotten past this personality flaw though, perhaps we can just provide information. You can start by telling me which bolt action is not cock on open and cock on close (Hint: Any action with even a short cocking cam is, to a certain extent, partially cock on open. Any action in which the bolt moves forward as the handle is turned down,after the sear has contacted the cocking piece is, to a certain extent, cock on closing. It's all just semantics. ). Using your own measuring technique, you will notice that Model 70's, Mausers, Sakos, Rugers, etc., all accomplish a significant potion of the cocking sequence as the handle is turned down. By the way, in your instructive calculations, you forgot to add in the amount the bolt sleeve unscrews as the bolt is closed. In the case of the 700, the sleeve has a 12 TPI thread which gives us .0833 per revolution. This means 1/4 turn yields roughly 21 thou. So, if the difference, relative to the rear of the bolt sleeve, is .061 (an arbitrary figure I pulled out of thin air) then the actual amount of cocking which has taken place is about .082" (once again, arbitrary figure. Chosen as an example only). Anyway, actions vary as to the amount of cocking which is done as the bolt is closed. On a Mauser 98, it's a lot, on a 700, it's much less. In those actions which are categorized as cock on closing, most of the cocking occurs as the bolt is pushed forward but a portion of the cocking sequence is on opening and a further portion is as the bolt is turned down.
The importance of having the extraction camming surface take up the shock of the bolt being slammed forward (as in a rapid-fire scenario; as might occur in the field) becomes greater with rifle using an over-riding sear trigger. This especially in those instances where sear engagement is minimal. A military, two-stage trigger, with it's generous sear engagement, can handle a pretty significant shock load. A trigger like the Remington, with a narrow, shallow, engagement area, not so much. This why it is so difficult to adjust a Remington to a light, safe pull if the bolt timing is wrong. The sear engagement has to be too great to withstand the shock and the spring has to be set too tight to stop the connector from bouncing away.
This will be my last post on this thread as I think this horse is beyond dead. I apologize to any members I may have offended. That includes you, Dan! GD

greydog,
You can start by telling me which bolt action is not cock on open and cock on close.

To cover more options than you have handled or have experience with.
Barnard P series
Grunig & Elmiger
Borden to name a couple.

I'll tell you anything you want to know......BUT not all that I know!!

No offense taken & no apologies given or accepted.

Uhh...take it to a "gunsmith" or contact Remington to get a return authorization...

Since the trigger has been played with there would be charges to replace the trigger. And it will take a lot of time.

I concur with everything in your post grey dog
For some reason dan seems to enjoy being obtuse

Please update what the cause and fix was. I’m having the same issue on a new rifle. Thanks

Tag

The issue is/was an improperly adjusted/molested trigger group.

GD-Castle_Rock simple question-
RH action
M.Walker design trigger group in a Rem 2 lug action.
Action cleared
Firing pin dry fired.
Lifting/rotating the bolt handle counter clock wise.
Firing pin in rotational transition being recocked
You are also threading the shroud back into the bolt body
Extraction cam in handle contacts rear receiver primary extraction cam surface
Case pulled to rear,rotating handle to 1oclock position the firing pin is fully cocked & the striker/cocking piece nose is in the radius cut in the aft end of the bolt body tube.

still with me?

Can you physically apply the safety to LOCK the trigger.....NO...to render the action safe....NO

So much for your misunderstanding/misinformation of how a Rem functions/operates.

Push the bolt forward
Start rotating the bolt clockwise toward battery position
You are now unthreading the firing pin shroud from the bolt body
The handle cam surface is @ 12oclock clockwise rotation past the primary extraction cam surface in the receiver rear bridge.
Keep rotating the bolt clockwise
You are NOW accomplishing STRIKER to SEAR HAND OFF.
The sear/safety bar is now reset to allow applying the safety to render the firearm SAFE.
Bolt handle stops bolt body rotation into battery

On a Winney
When the SAFETY is rotated to the middle position it cocks the firing pin .030"-.040" to DISCONNECT the trigger lever from the sear t& locks the firing pin & renders the platform safe.


It's best to be SMARTER than the equipment that you are attempting to operate.

So what happens to this cam, cocking, trigger geometry when a custom gunsmith takes metal off the action and bolt locking lug surfaces in a attempt to "true up" an action?

Usually the bolt timing/primary extraction becomes even worse. Dan is the man for fixing primary extraction issues. Great work!

Edited to remove content. -Al

As I said way back, this horse is beyond dead and deserves no more flogging. GD

Fair enough.

I couldn't delete my post since there had been a reply after I posted it. Instead, i've edited it to remove all the content. -Al

Al,
It's still a FREE country,no matter what the Dem's are pushing in all of their insanity.

Add to the layman's descriptions.

Wasted time on this once. I'm sure not coming back for round two.

Good shootin'. -Al

Easily rectified with some stoning or a Dremel if one knows what he is doing. Otherwise, take it to a smith.