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Joined: Dec 2008
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,167 |
I’m thinking 25-300 bee... seen enough fuucking around with rangefinders, turrets, and drop charts last week to last a lifetime...
Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
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Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 4,368
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2017
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The only one that ever got away was a 10 point stuffing worthy buck that took a 140 Barnes TSX a little too high behind the shoulder to avoid getting brush deflection. Five drops of blood and two days of looking only got me more exercise. I'd shot a couple of deer with that bullet before and a quarter size hole through both lungs instead of the usual mush with with softer bullets should have taught me that those bullets were too hard at 7mm-08 velocity and that deer are too thin to expand those TSX's adequately. I'm in the SST, Interlock or Core Lokt camp now. Deer are NOT big game. Too late smart.
My other auto is a .45
The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
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The mono "rule" I thought was to go lighter and faster.
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 32,074
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 32,074 |
I won't use .338 WM 210 NP on anything bigger than caribou ever again, nor Federal Power-Shok on anything bigger than a target, from good and sufficient experience. One failure to perform to satisfaction is one too many.
Last edited by las; 11/10/18.
The only true cost of having a dog is its death.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 7,978
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 7,978 |
The combined technology Ballistic Silvertips are also a disaster in many cartridges
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Joined: May 2017
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2017
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These came out of animals I killed on a Safari circa 2007.... ![[Linked Image]](https://i.imgur.com/frtiHNG.jpg) I’ll never use the TSX line again though I know a lot of good men that use them. They are accurate and penetrate, I just prefer the bullet to expand. I have tried and have loaded the LRX and TTSX in several calibers and use those without fear. The thing is, we can’t have a bullet failure conversation on the Internet without the TSX being involved... Todd
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,167
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,167 |
Damn X’s Have a cult like following too.... no wonder why the started tippin em...
Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 15,647
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 15,647 |
Damn X’s Have a cult like following too.... no wonder why the started tippin em... I'd submit they just scream the loudest.... Give me a Berger VLD all day long....
- Greg
Success is found at the intersection of planning, hard work, and stubbornness.
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,265
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,265 |
The thing is, we can’t have a bullet failure conversation on the Internet without the TSX being involved...
Todd
My definition of "bullet failure" is a bullet not doing what it's designed to do. With that as the definition, the only bullets I've ever had fail are monolithics - the Barnes X, TSX, TTSX and Olin Failsafe. Here's a failed .308 150 gr. TTSX I pulled from an elk. Apparently upon impacting the elk it didn't open, tipped, and was under the offside hide pointed the opposite direction. ![[Linked Image]](https://i.postimg.cc/9MzJtvpx/150ttsx.jpg)
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,167
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,167 |
Damn X’s Have a cult like following too.... no wonder why the started tippin em... I'd submit they just scream the loudest.... Give me a Berger VLD all day long.... Truth!! But they can eat right up to the hole Greg!!! Grin
Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,167
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,167 |
The thing is, we can’t have a bullet failure conversation on the Internet without the TSX being involved...
Todd
My definition of "bullet failure" is a bullet not doing what it's designed to do. With that as the definition, the only bullets I've ever had fail are monolithics - the Barnes X, TSX, TTSX and Olin Failsafe. Here's a failed .308 150 gr. TTSX I pulled from an elk. Apparently upon impacting the elk it didn't open, tipped, and was under the offside hide pointed the opposite direction. Hmmmmm so even tipped they don’t expand.....
Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,233
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2010
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I won't use .338 WM 210 NP on anything bigger than caribou ever again, nor Federal Power-Shok on anything bigger than a target, from good and sufficient experience. One failure to perform to satisfaction is one too many. Hmmm, I've killed a bunch of deer with .243 Win. 100 gr. power shoks without a problem. Will be using them again this year without concern when I tote my .243.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,097
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2007
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The thing is, we can’t have a bullet failure conversation on the Internet without the TSX being involved...
when it comes to examples of failure, which would be the most offended and defensive, the NP or Barnes X variety crowd..? it can be like daring to question the reputation of someones favorite cult status tele evangelist.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,167
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,167 |
Kinda funny no one has posted c&c failures....
Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,097
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,097 |
John Nosler was inspired to invent the NP after shooting a Canadian moose 7 or 8 times with .300H&H
before it fell...
were hunting bullets really that bad in 1946.?
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 628
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 628 |
I’m not sure if it was bullet failure but I recovered a 140gr .284 TTSX like Chet mentioned, almost looked like I could reload it. It was missing the tip and just slightly bent. It was a head shot on a deer and was recovered from the brain cavity. I don’t think it was necessarily bullet failure but rather a case of not being used in its performance range, but sometimes in Hunting situations you use what you got. In this particular case it was a follow up shot at over 700yds out of a 280rem, I don’t think the bullet was traveling at optimum speed.
On a separate occasion I had shot a buck in the front shoulder on a quartering towards me shot with a 165gr TTSX out of a 300wsm at 400yds. The deer dropped dead or so I thought, then 5 or 10 minutes later got up and hobbled away. After tracking it for 2 days it was obvious there was no exit wound, all the blood was coming from the left shoulder. I never did recover that deer but it was the last time I’ve used a mono metal bullet.
I think for the most part that bullet failure is a result of driver error. In most cases it says right on the box what the velocity is for proper bullet performance, when used outside of that there are no gurantee’s. I’ve had good luck shooting Nosler bullets, ballistic tips, partitions, and accubond have all worked well for me with no bad experiences to date. Here is a pic of the 140gt TTSX I recovered from that buck. ![[Linked Image]](https://i.imgur.com/PBNj35W.png)
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2011
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Looks like some "failed bullets" to me. Personally, I've never had the problem. Everything I shot with Sierra or Hornady cup & core ended up dead right quick. After going to completely cast bullets about 25 years ago evidently none have failed. Everything I shot died as quick if not quicker as when shot with jacketed bullets and I've never recovered one. Give me a big meplat, heavy for caliber cast bullet and I'm happy as a dead pig in the sun. Frankly, I am convinced expansion is vastly overrated.
NRA Benefactor 2008
Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." John 14-6
There is no right way to do a wrong thing
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Joined: Oct 2010
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Campfire Regular
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I don't think ANY manufacturer makes a bullet that "always-works-under-all-conditions-no-matter-what".
The differences of impact velocity, penetration-point path and depth, percent of vital organs hit, major or minor bone structure hit, exit or no-exit wound, game-animal toughness and adrenaline level, yada-yada-yada, all contribute to a how fast and effective a bullet "seems to be effective" through our own subjective opinions.
If a bullet is popular enough to be used very-very frequently under all field conditions on all kinds of animals from all kinds of guns, by all kinds of shooters, there WILL BE "FAILURES" with all kinds of extracted sample bullets and all kinds of accompanying "conclusions" (opinions).
You gotta love it.
I just pick bullets that MOST hunters have had very good results with, in lots of field conditions, on my type of rifle, on my type of game animal, and go hunting.
“Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.”
--- Will Rogers
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,771
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,771 |
John Nosler was inspired to invent the NP after shooting a Canadian moose 7 or 8 times with .300H&H
before it fell...
were hunting bullets really that bad in 1946.?
Saw a cluster of epic proportions on an elk involving 7 mag and core-locks. On skinning, there was a bullet that entered in front of the ham, completely fragmenting by the time in hit the spine. This poor cow was ground up before she died. The hunter ran out of ammo, had to go get more, find it, and finish. 140gr. so choice wasn't optimal. But failure to penetrate 10 inches in clean meat is a failure in any big game bullet. The failures I lauded to earlier were my dad's. 150gr core-locks, same time frame as above.. Elk and deer, pencils, or frag. His elk was the same trip. I shot an elk that trip. 7mag, Partitions. Shoulder to shoulder, bullet under the skin. I was new to reloading, dad thought reIoad was a bad word. Since then, I have loaded his ammo.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,114 |
I consider it bullet failure when the bullet fails to perform in the manner expected given the design of the bullet, speed, range, and tissue/bone hit. I've had three times I'd consider the results bullet failure because the bullet didn't perform in accordance to it's design (or my intended implementation of it's design). All 3 times ended up with dead animals though. Just my simple definition of it and it's very subjective......I ain't webster's.... Totally agree with this definition. Was hunting elephant in Zim (2010) and got an unexpected close range charge from a bull. Rifle was a .470 and ammunition was Federal Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer 500 grain solids. Perfectly placed frontal brain shot, but he didn't drop. Fortunately, he did turn to my left and I fired again. This bullet entered through his left ear and he went down hard, as dead as Marley's ghost. BTW, the distance between where he dropped and where my empties lay was thirteen (13) paces. We did a necropsy afterwards and dug the first bullet out. The nose was riveted, the base was fishtailed and the bullet had bent about 80 degrees. This failure was why it never penetrated to the brain on the first shot. Took the bullet to the Federal booth at SCI in 2011 and they said they would open a file on it and get back to me. They wanted to test the metallurgy, etceteras. Never heard from them again. After that experience, I only use Barnes monolithic banded solids (as loaded by Barnes) in my .470 NE and .416 Rigby. My experience has shown that any bullet can deform when punching through several feet of bone, but Barnes solid deformation is minimal compared to the Federal Trophy Bonded sledgehammer. I will never use Sledgehammers on DG again.
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