Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats Older Mod 70 in 22-3000?

I was at a local gunshow the other day. A guy had an older Model 70 that started as a 22 Hornet then was rechambered to a 22-3000, also marked on the barrel. The price was still up there, asking $1400-1500 or so. It was in decent shape.

The seller was bragging up the cartridge some, faster than 22 Hornet & all.

I looked up ballistics when I got home, skimming through it doesn’t seem much more than a Hornet. The real kicker is ammo is about nonexistent, at least without extreme gyrations.

Anyhoo, not really interested, but it did seem like an interesting rifle. What would one do with such a rifle? Could it be rechambered into something else without to much trouble? I’d rather it still be in 22 Hornet. I think it will be for sale for a while yet.

Need ammo ?

https://www.buffaloarms.com/22-3000...-2-lovell-ammunition-box-of-20-amo223000

Wow...and I cringe when I pay $50-60 on a box of ammo.

It would be worth more if it had been left as a .22 Hornet.

No wonder that dude was talking up the .22-3000, looking for a sucker.

I don't know what the options would be regarding chamberings. With the same bolt face, probably not many.

DF

A few years back I found a Winchester M43 that had been converted to 25 Hornet. I had never even heard of such a cartridge until that day. A gunsmith that I knew at the time bought it because he had a fair amount of M43 parts including barrels and was going to turn it back into a 22 Hornet. Seemed like a money pit to me.

Thanks for the ammo link, yes, costly.

No, my interest(in buying) the rifle is low, just wondering where it will end up and any options. I do think he would like a sucker to buy it, seems unlikely at a $1500 price level. Most would want some research before handing over the cash.

You would likely take a loss should you decide at some point to sell it, with that in mind if you like the cartridge and are OK with $50/bx ammo then go for it.

Seems like I see a few now and again turned into 222 Rem's. I wouldn't pay out my rear to get that donor though.

For what it is, I'd go $7-800, not $1,500.

Just me.

And if it could be converted to .222 without much trouble, I believe I'd do that.

It's for sure just a shooter, collector value long gone.

DF

A couple of excerpt of the history of the 22-3000, taken from Jim Carmichael's book - The Modern Rifle, pg 214.

"The 2-R Lovell, sometimes called the 22/3000 , is in fact a wildcat based on another wildcat. The first version, called the 22/3000, was the 25/20 case necked down to .22 caliber. This made possible a velocity of 3000 fps. Next, an "improved" version was made by enlarging the chamber and fire forming the case to greater capacity. With a 45 grain Hornet bullet velocities of close to 3400 fps were possible. The Renowned New York gunsmithing firm of Griffin & Howe made quite a few rifles in this chambering and converted many others."

I have no idea of the value of the one that the OP is speaking of but I would think that if it were a G & H converted one, and was marked as such, that it may have a value greater than a donor action.

drover

Interesting.

How would the OP determine if it was a G&H project? Did they so mark the ones they did? Do G&H records still exist?

Documenting that could help with value.

DF

I have seen a couple of Hornets that were converted to 222 by G & H and they were marked by G & H but it has been so long ago that I cannot recall just where or how they were marked.

Probably a post or two on a Winchester collectors board would give some answers.

drover

I've seen a few opened up to 223 and 222's as the Hornets were a bit anemic and the couple I've shot were not what I would classify as accurate. If a 223 reamer would clean up the chamber it might be worthwhile at around $700 as any collector value is long gone. Also, the Hornets have a very specific bolt face and bolt nose and once it is modified you'll never find another one to bring it back to original.

And slow twist. So, in .222/223 version, you're stuck with light weight bullets. I think those old Hornets are 16 twist.

The bolt face would need to be opened .028', (from .350" to ,378").

The COAL is more, but don't know if the gun has already been altered to accommodate the .22-3000. That round is for sure longer than the 1.72" Hornet, may be as long as the 2.1" .222.

Lot of questions.

DF

I guess I'm "old" ... 'cause I don't mind that. My .223 "career" predates the polymer tipped bullets. The best way I found to get maximum splat was to hit things with Hornet bullets pushed right to the ragged edge of jacket failure. That meant keeping the distances short. Take one of those 1-16" twist .223s and feed it 35 grain VMAX hornet bullets ... it'd be entertaining.

Tom

.25 Hornets were often done to give new life to a shot out barrel, especially Savage 23 type rifles that had a one piece barrel/action. Like many things from the 50's nobody really needs one with all of the better solutions today ...

The .222 made this wildcat disappear by the late 50's.

I hear ya.

Fast twist is the current rage.

So, slow is old.

DF

I believe G&H built most of their 22-3000s on Springfield 03 actions. The M70 build would be more interesting in my opinion.

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