Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics Freaking Leupold

Sold most of mine a few years ago. Still have a couple. I really love Leupold scopes, especially the 6x42. Just finally got tired of using their amazing customer service.

Hate to go back from the Leupold bashing that some seem to enjoy so much but did find that they list the Throw lever under accessories. $165! OUCH!!!!! MK machining makes a plastic one for $17 so will try that one first. Reviews are all over the place but I can afford to lose $17. The $165 price is ridiculous!

Well, I’m starting to have to send in (for repair) more VX2&3 stuff than I get to keep and use, so my Leupold support and returns on investment are diminishing lately. If this latest VX2 1-4 can’t have a new reticle put in for under $200, I’m probably shopping for a lot less Leupold stuff in the future.

Hwhiskey, why would a reticle cost you $200? You said it’s going in for repair? Or, are you saying Leupold is too expensive for service work that you want done, not because the scope broke or failed? 😎

I sent them an email a week or so ago, then decided to call and request a call back. I somehow lost the bronze button emblem off a VX-R reticle switch. The guy on the phone mailed one right away, and the next day I received an email saying one was on the way as well, in reply to my email. So, I have a spare.

A few years ago I purchased a Youth Weatherby Vanguard rifle in 7mm08 for my grandson. I glass bedded the action in the stock but ran out of time so I just mounted the Leupold 1.5-5x20 VX3 in a set of Talley Lighweights without lapping them (not my normal procedure). When shooting the rifle just before the deer season I could only get the rifle to shoot 3" groups and most brands of ammo was 4"+. The adjustments were very erratic. Grandson killed a deer with the rifle anyway at about 30 yards.

After the season I decided to get into the rifle to find out why it was not as accurate as I knew it could be and the scope was the first item I address. When I removed the scope to check the mounts for tightness (which they were tight to the receiver and ring caps were tight) I found the scope had serious ring marks and appeared to be in a bind when I mounted it. After lapping the rings, which needed considerable material to be removed to get good alignment, I reinstalled the same Leupold scope and returned to the range. Now the rifle was around 1" +or- with several factory loads. I made no other changes to the rifle and used the same ammo as before. It appears the scope was definitely in a bind and not allowing the scope to adjust precisely and it appears the binding cause the erector to move during recoil which produced the large groups.

Now there are those who will tell you that you do not need to lap Talley rings or any rings for that matter because the rings are perfectly machined at the factory, and I am sure they are manufactured to exacting tolerances. It is my opinion that when you are lapping rings you are correcting the misalignment of the rifle receiver mounting holes and the tolerances of the rifle action. I also believe some of the issues people have had with their rifles poor accuracy and Leupold, and other manufacturers, tracking and zero retention are due to scope mounting issues. The issue I had with the Weatherby rifle somewhat proves poor mounting will cause a scope to track and retain accuracy and zero poorly.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying it is the cause of all issues. I have had scopes that did not hold zero and the adjustments were poor even with proper mounting, and some were Leupold scopes.

I’ll never buy another losepold.

Probably Vortex Super Razor Wide View Twist- a-Turret

Yep, that's what I suspect also...Talleys are not "machined" they are "cast", and definitely bind the internals if not aligned or lapped.

Talleys are not cast.

2nd paragraph clearly states they are cnc machined:

http://www.talleymanufacturing.com/Products/Lightweight-Alloy-Scope-Mount.aspx

David

I've used a lot of Talley lightweights and never lapped asingle one. The SWFA variables and fixed 6x track correctly every time.

David

Well good for you in having rifles that have their mounting holes in perfect alignment and the receivers on all of your rifles exactly in specifications. Talleys, Warne, Weaver, Seekins, etc. all make rings and mounts that are perfectly machined when you get them. When you put them on a rifle chances are about 80% (my guess) that the will not align perfectly because of the variances to be found in the rifle mounting surface.

Now if you use a 1-piece base and bed it to the rifle action most likely the rings will be in good alignment.

YOU DO NOT LAP RINGS TO CORRECT THE RING MANUFACTURING ISSUES, YOU LAP RINGS TO CORRECT THE PROBLEMS CAUSED WHEN YOU MOUNTED THEM ON YOUR MASS PRODUCED RIFLE. I don't understand how this is so hard for some to understand, then I realize we have a forum full of doctors, lawyers and car salesmen who cannot understand mechanical things.

I'll never buy another used one that doesn't have the exact reticle I want. They are still priced o. k. on reticles new out of the custom shop. Sounds like they don't want to have to deal with used scopes any more. I got burned on that one. I bought a VX-I and VX-II 2-7x33 with crappy reticles when they were discontinued thinking I could have them fixed. When I called they wanted $150, and I hear it's worse now.

Yes, it is good for me.

It's lovely when you mount a scope on a rifle with minimal fuss and it works exactly the way it's supposed to.

Maybe the problem is the scope, not the rifle or the rings?

I'm 4 for 4 mounting SWFA'S in unlapped Talley's with zero problems. A Rem 700, Ruger American and two Kimber 84M's. I must be luckiest doctor/lawyer/car salesman mechanical concept not understanding guy on the planet! A shame I wasted all that good luck on a bunch of silly rifles, I should have bought a lottery ticket instead!

David

Canazes9,

Sorry for coming of as an as..hole. I am sure what you are doing is working for you. I see you use a lot of SWFA SS scopes which have very thick/strong tubes and small amount of misalignment most likely does not effect them. My original response was to to Bwana_1 question if uneven pressure and over tightening the rings could cause issues with scopes not tracking, and his question was in reference to Leupold issues. My response to him was yes, and I gave him an example.

Many of the issues people have with scopes are mounting problems in my opinion, and lightweight scopes with thin tubes seem to be most susceptible to misalignment. Now when I lap my rings many times their is very little misalignment and in most cases would most likely not cause any problems.

I took my frustration out on your post because every time someone mentions that they lap rings someone says they have been mounting Talleys for years and never had a problem. It is like they think we who lap rings are doing it because the rings are poorly made, but in fact it is the rifle that causes the problem. I love Talley Lightweight rings and use them a lot.

Now as you have found out even a slight misalignment may not have any effect on your scope, especially if you are using a heavy tactical scope like SWFA or Nightforce, even lightweight scopes may be fine. It is when they are not fine that the problem occurs with tracking or holding zero. That is why many of us always lap our rings even if we find that we remove hardly any material because the alignment works great on that particular rifle. Over the years I have only had one rifle that when I put the lapping bar on it the rub pattern indicated that the alignment was almost perfect and that was on a Weatherby Ultra Lightweight in 338-06.

You got to love them SWFA SS scope as they solve a lot of problems.

VaHunter,

It's all good! I'm glad you understood what I was getting at, mechanical ruggedness of the SWFA's solve a lot of issues.

David

You are correct, my mistake...I misunderstood a thread I was reading the other day here.

Leupold Derangement Syndrome is still hanging on here at 24hr

Well "Mr. Suntan" is posting again.