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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,479
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,479 |
You would have to ask the benchrest guys, but for me shooting HP for 20 yrs, tried everything when first compeating to increase scores...all came down to the nut behind the bolt. Ended up using plain ol R-P 9 1/2`s.
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,212 Likes: 11
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,212 Likes: 11 |
Have you done any shooting with the S&B large rifle primer? If you're asking me, no. Always been a Federal user, generally use match for match shooting, regular for the rest, although 7 1/2's for a lot of SR usage too due to price & toughness for some applications.
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,443
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,443 |
Anyone trust Winchester yet?
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,448 Likes: 56
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,448 Likes: 56 |
Anyone trust Winchester yet? NOPE..
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,479
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,479 |
I have..on my 2nd brick. Can`t say they are any more accurate than US stuff. but they were a lot cheaper. Think I bought my first one for $21 at Cabela`s...their up to 28 now.
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,733 Likes: 9
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,733 Likes: 9 |
Anyone trust Winchester yet? I got a brick of large pistol and a few hundred small pistol left and that will be it for WW around here.
Swifty
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 24,836 Likes: 34
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 24,836 Likes: 34 |
I tried a box of the CCI BR about 10-12 years ago - didn't show any improvement that I could see on paper .
I think I still have half a box - I'll try them in my 280AI 180gr berger Hybrid load - can't hurt .
I've read similar reports of neck turning brass - one LR shooter on youtube can't fire a round without a turned neck - another [Sam Millard Panhandle Precision] says he never got any improvemet in any barrel/cartridge . More than one way to skin a cat I reckon .
PRESIDENT TRUMP 2024/2028 !!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Bristoe The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 Likes: 1 |
I wouldn’t expect geometric improvement.
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 685
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 685 |
Back in the day when i was shooting benchrest competitively, I played with primers a bit in the heavy varmint .222. And, yes, the match grade primers made a difference. It wasn't much, but it was there.I never noticed much difference in normal hunting rifles.
You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,768
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,768 |
Changing primers can change results in different rifles with different chamberings and different loads. A generalization is inaccurate advise.
Sometimes you see a change and sometimes you don't.
I have a 7x57 that hates CC! 200's and a .30/06 that loves them. You can't guess, you have to try them and see how the results average out. Both like Federal 210's but I only knew that after checking.
I have had a handful of rifles that could/did tell the difference, but only in ignition ( vertical stacking), never in velocity. Now, "magnum" primers, yeah, sometimes in ignition but always in velocity. As said...you have to try them. For me and Match primers....I use them because its just one more variable out of the way...
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,858
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,858 |
Anyone trust Winchester yet? I haven't had any problems with the ones I'm using. I also called Winchester to make sure they weren't on the bad list. So far so good.
"An archer sees how far he can be from a target and still hit it, a bowhunter sees how close he can get before he shoots." It is certainly easy to use that same line of thinking with firearms. -- Unknown
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 152,728 Likes: 55
Campfire Savant
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Campfire Savant
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 152,728 Likes: 55 |
I had my very first reload that didn’t go boom a couple weeks ago. CCI primer, I pulled bullet, it had powder in case. At least I was shooting at pigs in a trap.
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 126
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 126 |
I've only ran one test loading with different primers. It was interesting.
6mm Rem. Ran H4831 charges with 4 different primers. CCI 200, CCI 250, Fed 210, and Fed 210M.
Was surprised the Fed 210 and Fed 210M varied as much from each other. 200 fps slower, and a bit higher extreme spread. That was it for the Fed210.
CCI 200 was just worse than the Fed 210 in every way. If this test is any indication, I have no idea what I'll ever do with the 1000 CCI 200's on my shelf. A bit slower than the lagging Fed 210, really bad ES. Measuring cases indicated even at the slower fps, the case was showing similar pressure to the Fed 210M.
CCI 250 was really as much encouraging as the CCI 200 was disappointing. By far had the lowest extreme spread. But velocity was a little lower than the competitive Fed 210M.
I tested the CCI 250 - a large rifle Magnum Primer once before against a Large Rifle primer. Interesting thing is - the 250 was slower on that comparison too, not by much, but it was slower than the Large Rifle primer I was comparing to.. But the consistent velocities is where the CCI250 really shined that time too.
I ended up going with the Fed 210M with my 6mm, but I could have selected the CCI 250. CCI 250 actually did nudge it out by just a little - it's just that I have a few thousand more Fed 210 M primers than I have CCI 250 primers.
For me, on one intentional test, on this one gun of mine, with varied loads. It's CCI 250 first choice followed closely by Fed 210 M - toss up choice. Fed 210 is a reasonable and acceptable option - if never tested side by side to anything I'm sure you'd never be disappointed with Fed 210 performance.
The CCI 200 had no business at all in final load inclusion. It was comparatively bad in every way. Didn't expect that. Slow, with wide ES, and on top of that seemed pressure was higher at the slow velocity.
I'll test primers again on another load development. Didn't expect such drastic difference. And I'll be including a larger number of primer brands and models in my testing, load development. I was surprised the results were so drastically different.
Last edited by Burr; 12/04/18.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 26,178 Likes: 23
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 26,178 Likes: 23 |
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,733 Likes: 9
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,733 Likes: 9 |
I've only ran one test loading with different primers. It was interesting.
6mm Rem. Ran H4831 charges with 4 different primers. CCI 200, CCI 250, Fed 210, and Fed 210M.
Was surprised the Fed 210 and Fed 210M varied as much from each other. 200 fps slower, and a bit higher extreme spread. That was it for the Fed210.
CCI 200 was just worse than the Fed 210 in every way. If this test is any indication, I have no idea what I'll ever do with the 1000 CCI 200's on my shelf. A bit slower than the lagging Fed 210, really bad ES. Measuring cases indicated even at the slower fps, the case was showing similar pressure to the Fed 210M.
CCI 250 was really as much encouraging as the CCI 200 was disappointing. By far had the lowest extreme spread. But velocity was a little lower than the competitive Fed 210M.
I tested the CCI 250 - a large rifle Magnum Primer once before against a Large Rifle primer. Interesting thing is - the 250 was slower on that comparison too, not by much, but it was slower than the Large Rifle primer I was comparing to.. But the consistent velocities is where the CCI250 really shined that time too.
I ended up going with the Fed 210M with my 6mm, but I could have selected the CCI 250. CCI 250 actually did nudge it out by just a little - it's just that I have a few thousand more Fed 210 M primers than I have CCI 250 primers.
For me, on one intentional test, on this one gun of mine, with varied loads. It's CCI 250 first choice followed closely by Fed 210 M - toss up choice. Fed 210 is a reasonable and acceptable option - if never tested side by side to anything I'm sure you'd never be disappointed with Fed 210 performance.
The CCI 200 had no business at all in final load inclusion. It was comparatively bad in every way. Didn't expect that. Slow, with wide ES, and on top of that seemed pressure was higher at the slow velocity.
I'll test primers again on another load development. Didn't expect such drastic difference. And I'll be including a larger number of primer brands and models in my testing, load development. I was surprised the results were so drastically different. Seems some guy from CCI thought the same thing. Not a bad read. http://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/ammunition_st_mamotaip_200909/100079We tested loads at both maximum normal pressures and at the starting loads (some labs calculate start loads — we shot them). Standard primers caused no ignition issues at the max load but posted higher extreme variations in pressure and velocity in the lower pressure regimes of the start loads. In extreme cases, the start loads produced short delayed firings — probably in the range of 20 to 40 milliseconds but detectible to an experienced ballistician. Switching that propellant to a Magnum primer smoothed out the performance across the useful range of charge weights and completely eliminated the delays. If I've recommended a Magnum primer in reloading data I've developed, it's because my lab results show it's needed.
Swifty
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,165
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,165 |
using cci br my 22 hornet went from 1 1/4 to 3/4 inch . over all a good response.
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 29,069 Likes: 29
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 29,069 Likes: 29 |
In the case of Federal primers, the only difference between match and regular primers, is that match go through one more inspection process than "regular" primers, nothing more. The explanation I've seen in print more than once is that the primers are "grouted"'by the employees that have been the most consistent at that task. No difference otherwise; the inspections weren't mentioned IIRC. Same goes for CCI, except for the little "B" on the cups. After a considerable dearth in the supply, I scored some thousands of the 210 Match, enough to last my needs. Bought a brick of the CCI BR2 with my teeth clenched before that, but likely never again. Don't know if the match stuff helps in my hunting rifles, but can't hurt.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 13,273 Likes: 7
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 13,273 Likes: 7 |
Anyone trust Winchester yet? They swapped me out two for one, or a little better. This was a couple of years ago now, I believe. No issues, and I load for 5 people with multiple rifles. P
Obey lawful commands. Video interactions. Hold bad cops accountable. Problem solved.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
Member #547 Join date 3/09/2001
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 366
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 366 |
I had not heard there was a problem with Winchester primers. Is so, would someone be kind enough to provide some details on what the problem was and how to tell which ones had the problem? I think I have a stash of older Winchester primers that would be good to check out.
Thanks!
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Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 592
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 592 |
So then , is the 250 a magprimer only when comparing it to the 200 ?
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