Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters .416 Weatherby vs. .416 Rigby?!?

Yeah but you don't need to mistrust one rifle just to add another. In fact, I don't think we need a reason at all to add another rifle......................

The most miserable .416 I have ever fired was one of the original 700's. The stock shape and tire-rubber recoil pad made it hell even from offhand....

JB

I've been doing that I've passed the point of having run out of room a while ago ... But I can always tweak things.

I know if I see another .375H&H sitting around, I'm likely to pick it up.

Dan

I'd heard the #1's have a rep for harsh recoil -- especially with their pad that some folks have called a hockey puck. I have not found it bad. By contrast, my 700 in .375H&H was brutal by my reckoning -- and its balance was awful (barrel pulled down HARD -- not even just a little bit; even their varmint rifles do not feel like that one did). Even just the one mercury tube helped a lot.

Dan

Have found the No. 1's in big chamberings pretty tolerable if you use iron sights--or get a small scope down low....

JB

One of my #1s has a redfield widefield 2-7x It has been comfortable. The .416 rem has some small scope (Burris short mag 4x; hope was that fixed power had fewer moving parts, more solid per $... so far, hasn't given me sorrow).

I don't know why the #1's had gotten their weird rep; I have a few, and even the heavies are not unusual in their recoil by my reckoning.

Dan

All this discussion about the "felt recoil" of factory stocks seems moot. Just buy a good aftermarket stock of the style that works best for you.

In heavier recoiling rifles, I have had great luck with the Hogue with the aluminum bedding block as well as the McMillan in the Sako Varmint style. For me, most any classic style stock works, and fiberglass seems to soften recoil better than wood and especially kevlar.

When I first saw that Rem "DG Rifle" in 416 Rem, with it's HS Precision Stock, my shoulder started hurting right then. A light weight rifle in a kevlar/graphite stock in a heavier recoil chambering is about the worst choice you can make for recoil reduction.

Blaine - interested in your like for the Hogue with the block. While it isn't a "heavy", my hunting partner recently got one to replace the old "hollow-side" on his Ruger 77 in .338. I have not yet had a chance to shoot it, but I certainly like the way the rifle "holds." With spring here, it will get a good wringing out soon. Best, John

John,

I was actually amazed at the stock. It fits me very well and feels good to hold. The only downside is it is a bit heavy, but it absorbs recoil like no other stock I have used.

Yesterday, I got my Lott out.. I realized it had been a long time since I took it to the range. I wanted to get a really good measure of the variation in POI for different loads. I wanted to zero it on Hornady 500 gr softs, and see which solids came closest. I found that the Hornady 500 gr solids showed 2.5 inches deviation at 8:00 (very sad), whereas the 500 gr Speer AGS was 1.5" at 12:00 (which is very close to optimum by my reckoning) at 100 yards. Coming home with this exciting news, and worried that AGS was gone for good, I looked up prices... some online store is selling AGS for $200 per 25. Woe is me!! Now I have to look for other solids to try... There's other Speer bullets and Woodleighs...

But -- on the issue of recoil, I was pleased that much of the "jab" seemed not to be there. It occurred to me that all the other occasions I shot it, I was wearing my slippery winter wear. Yesterday was a pleasant day, and the shooting was quite comfortable in shirt sleeves.

D*mn the fouling!!!

Dan

The 416 Rigby is remarkably effective on dangerous game. I feel like the original velocities of the Rigby have been killing effectively since the cartridges creation and I do not feel the necessity to load mine hotter. The other 416's are equally efficient. I chose the Rigby because of nostalgia and personal taste in gun appearance and fit over the 416 Weatherby.

It is my belief that 416 Rigby velocities offer ample killing power, and that when you push the same bullets up toward 416 Weatherby velocities, for most riflemen recoil starts to get in the way of good shooting, negating the edge provided by the extra energy the 416 Wby. furnishes.

Being able to write a check that will buy an agile, fast, and talented cutting horse is one thing; being able to stay in the saddle and handle him to maximum advantage is often something else again............

AD

I have read this and found it very interesting. I just bought a new .416 Rigby #1 and my underconstruction .416 Taylor is back in the shop doing a few more little things to it. I nearly bought a .416 Rem last year but talked myself out of it. I guess out of all the .416 discussions I have seen the thing that intrigues me most is that the Taylor which offer so many advantages has never become a reality. Bill Ruger proclaimed that it was his favorite DG cartridge and even built a few 77 and #1 rifles but stopped production because (never verified) W-W was supposed to produce ammo for them and decided not to. This is ironic because the very first .416 Taylor rifle built was buiilt by Winchester.Bill Ruger kept a 77 in .416 Taylor for his personal use. Chatfield Taylor, John Wooters and Maj John Kingsly-Heath all considered it to be the best combination of recoil, accuracy and economy in a DG rifle yet with all of their praise the cartridge still never became a reality. When loaded to near Rigby velocity none of the famous shooters ever had a problem with cartridges sticking or being underpowered. Even now componants are very inexpensive compared to the Rigby and correct headstamp brass is readily availible. Lee even offers a set of dies priced like 30-06 dies. It may be like the tootsie pop. The world may never know. reflex264

I have heard/read so many people praise the .416 Rigby -- which in this range of cartridges means they are happy to trust their lives to it, when there are many other details they will complain bitterly about such as PushFeed vs. CRF -- that I have no doubt it is more than enough in its traditional loads. Further, in my rifle, I have been blessed with a very very tight 1-hole 3 shot group... (maybe I will try to repeat the deed) -- which was in my first sight-in target for the rifle (you see two holes as I walked the zero to the x-ring, then 1 very slightly ragged hole cutting the ring at 4:30). I'm not going to mess with that load.

Earlier posts that I made pointed out that I was very impressed with the tolerance this cartridge has to load pressures. It runs from Rigby loads up to .416 Weatherby loads. This is about as flexible as the .458 Win, that runs from .45-70 class loads up to full .458 win loads... quite a spectrum. Yet, Weatherby cartridges have a reputation of not tolerating down-loading very well. But the Rigby case does... THAT is very interesting. More, the Rigby appears to be VERY flexible in its useful range of pressure. THAT is impressive! More, at its low 40,000 CUP range, its brass lives forever!

Dan

According to modern pressure standards, some of the older loads for the .416 Taylor were pretty hot--but it is still capable of beating the .450/400's and those also have great reps in Africa.

According to some sources the actual original .416 Rigby muzzle velocities were closer to 2300 than 2400, even though the latter is often quoted as "the .416 speed. In my own .416 Riby CZ a muzzle velocity of 2300 or a little more with a 400 is what "regulates" with the express sights, and so far has proven plenty for anything pointed at.

Faster is not alwasy better in big bore rifles.

When the .375 Ruger is necked up to .416 (whether by wildcatters or the factory) it may prove to be the new .416 Taylor, capable of 2300+ with 400's at relatively moderate pressures.

JB

I have been giving some thought to the new Ruger rifle and what kind of .416 it might become. I would like to see them actualy build the Taylor on the Hawkeye. I would buy one. I know that some shooters leaned on the Taylor pretty hard. Taylors original approach was more subdued. After he found out it would easily reach 2400fps he backed off to 2300fps loaded with 3031. Wooters loaded 4320 in his and shot it for years at 2400fps. Vhita Vhouri has pressure tested loads with their powders and carried it beyonnd the Rigby levels with good pressures. For now I am going to keep mine at 2300fps and the Rigby 2400-2500fps. reflex264

I can't imagine why anyone would go with a 416 Taylor, especially since the 416 Rem. Mag. outperforms it in every way and is logistally better from every standpoint of consideration.

AD

Allen, I'm surprised at you. Why, the .416 Taylor is .35 inch shorter, allowing for a shorter bolt throw! This is exactly why tens of thousands of shooters bought .300 WSMs, instead of that overly-long and clunky (not to mention, ugh, belted) .300 Winchester, which as every well-read hunter of today knows, is far less accurate and kicks much harder than the .300 WSM.

Seriously, though, I doubt another belted case magnum could succeed on today's mass market (we have been that brainwashed),the reason I suspect a "short" .416 would be on the Ruger case or something like it, rather than the .416 Taylor.

JB

John, I agree with you!

Actually, the 375 Ruger case necked up to .416 would make for a really nifty and practical hunting cartridge. I don't know that it would actually work from a production/internal ballistics perspective, but I speculate that it SHOULD.

I think a lot of guys would be standing in line for that one, if it should come about!

Allen

At the risk of sounding off topic I would like to say in the Taylor's defense that the belts have never been a problem for me. I don't have a belt instilled phobia. I load several belted cartridges and haven't experienced the problems I have read about. I am not knocking the ideal of a .375 Ruger based .416. Far from it. It looks like a great platform for such an endeavor but I probably wouldn't buy one. By the same logic I can't see buying a .375 Ruger when the .375 is still doing its job. I have bought several guns for no other reason than memories of articles I read growing up. That is part of the reason that a new .416 Rigby found its way here recently. I grew up reading about the Taylor and if it ever is completed I will have a fine custom Taylor. A true rifle loonie is not required to justify his choice in cartridges solely on the merits of a given cartridge. Sometimes you just buy what feels right. If it makes you happy by all means buy it. I can't think of a better reason to explain to the wife why I need another safe. 8^} reflex264