Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors Savage 99 "Trapper"

I've scoured this forum and others but haven't discovered any references to modifications of a 99 resulting in a "trapper" length barrel. I hunt black bear with hounds in the Appalachian mts often in steep, rocky, thickets where only the foolhardy and stubborn will enter. The ideal gun for this scenario is light, reliable, short, and pushing enough bullet to quickly dispatch a bear so as to prevent them from doing damage to the hounds. My firearm of choice for the last several years has been a post 64 Winchester 94 trapper in 30-30 with the 16.25" barrel. Lately, I've been thinking of upgrading to a more powerful round. I've been dreaming of short barrel Savage in 358 win or 375 win. Since these chamberings seem to be out of my price range given scarcity and collector interest I think the more common 300 sav. or 308 win are better options. So I have a few questions:

1. Did Savage ever offer a super short barrel version of the 99?

2. Assuming the answer to 1 is no I will be looking at shortening the barrel of an existing beater, likely a 99E. Has anyone ever done this or run into such a beast? How much would a short ( say 16.5") barrel affect balance?

3. My 94 weighs in right at 6 lbs and I'd like to get down to something close to that. I considered a modifying a marlin 35 into a "maurader" ( a real maurader is far to $$$) but think the Marlins might be a bit too heavy for my liking. Any idea what a 99 modified as described above might weight?

Any other words of advice?

Many thanks!

Have you considered one of the Mossberg 464 Bushguns in 30-30?

I have a buddy chopped a 300. He didn't start with an original gun. Seems to like it just fine.

These are my Trappers. 16" .358 and 18" .375. Both have had the straight levers swapped for curved, and 1940's-50's wood installed. I like the curved pistol grip better for a Trapper so it can hang in your hand easier. I shoot them a bit, and use them for bear hunting here in Oregon.

If I were you I might consider a 308 99F lightweight. You may not want to shorten the barrel at all, load it up with 200 grain bullets and hang on tight.

I have a 99 E in 300 Savage. It has a factory 20" barrel. You might consider one of those.

As Roy said, I'd get a 50s vintage 99F and not look back. You could even get one in 300 and maybe avoid the premium a 308 might command. I'm not so sure there's enough actual performance difference between the 300 and 308 to be too concerned with.

Heres some pictures of an "E" in 300 with a 20" barrel,i put a "G" buttstock on and a "EG" forearm on made it a nice looking little rifle. I dont see why one couldn't shorten the barrel a bit if they wanted to. Don

You might luck out and find one of these. 99F in 308. When I bought it real cheap it had an external bulge on the barrel and ring around the inside of the bore just behind the front sight. I had a friend shorten the barrel to 18 1/2 " and recrown the muzzle. I have since installed an aftermarket straight stock and matching lever. It shoots pretty good groups.

David, I think that's how a guy ought to do it if at ll possible, find a gun with a flaw that shortening actually fixes. Cutting up an original that doesn't have any issues just isn't right.

I sure wouldn't cut up an original

Interesting concept. Not sure that it's my cup of tea, but you guys have caught my attention.

I think if I were tangled up in an environment as described by the OP, with the prospect of shooting black bears at distances measured in feet, I would seriously consider a heavy revolver instead of a rifle. And hand grenades. A 6" Smith in .44 or .45 will put the kibosh to Br'er Bear and leave one's hands free to wrestle with the flora and fauna. For me though it is purely theoretical as frankly I would prefer to read about y'all's exploits while sitting in an easy chair with a glass of whiskey. My days of extreme sport are behind me.

"I have clinched and closed with the naked north,
I've learned to defy and defend.
Shoulder to shoulder we've fought it out,
But the wilds must win in the end."
Robert Service

If you don’t need it to be a lever gun you could find a savage 170 carbine with the 18” barrel, I saw one yesterday at a show,not as cool as a 99 though

You've got a good point about a handgun. The few times I went bear hunting here. (the bait was 40 yards away) I packed a trusty Cimmarron Thunderer in 45 LC loaded as hot as a SSA could go. I was hunting with a 358 brushgun. The Thunderer was backup. The plan was if I put one down I'd approach him with the Thunderer cocked and pointed at him or for any other eventuality such as wounding ole bruin and running out of 358's as he charged the blind. I didn't have the short barreled 308 F then. If I go bear hunting again I will take it loaded with 220 grain partitions.

Where's the flog button? *push push push push*

99A's in 375 came with 22" barrels. That one has been shortened. Nothing collectible but would be a good bear gun. I don't see anything wrong with taking a few more inches off the barrel.

Perfect candidate for the OP's trapper project, except for the price.

I sold a mint 99A in 375 about two years ago for $1200. I paid $500 for the Brushgun I chopped to 18" and restocked. The last few inches of the barrel had no bluing (sanded off) and was missing the sight.

I’m probably alone in this but cut down 99s look just like that to me. Where’s the front sight? Something’s not right. Of course as a tool then who cares.

They do look kinda funny without a front sight but since I can't see the darn things I decided not to bother with putting one on my F. I learned at about age 14 that a low power scope worked better than iron sights in low light anyway.

Here is a pic of the 99F 18 1/2" barrel with the straight stock and compact Leupold 2 1/2X

Wyo1895, it definitely has the look!


Red Spruce, I prefer my 99's with a 16" barrel and typically buy them already chopped for a decent price. I also buy otherwise modified 99's whenever I can find them cheap for future projects.

I am in the process of building one in 450 Bushmaster which should be the Cats Meow of brush guns, much better for my use than my 99 in 358.

If I could ever find some elk in the brush I'd go after them with it.

All, Thanks for the many insightful and educational responses. I'll try to hit the main questions in this response to Fireball as his examples appear to be the medicine I am looking for.

Wyo1895, I havent had a chance to handle the mossberg yet but why buy new when I can make use of a vintage walnut and steel example of american craftsmanship! Also my 94 is a 30-30 and although I like it very much I'm interested in getting somethign with a bit more oomph. I should add that I'm also thinking forward to when my daughter or son will need a firearm of their one to join in the fun. They are 8 and 5 so I have a few more years.

Fireball, That 358 sure looks like the bees knees! any idea what the carry weight is? I suspect the larger diameter bores will weight a bit more than the 30 caliber? Also what type of front sight did you have put on?

gnoahh, Several members of our bear club do carry a revolver ( Ruger Redhawk/Blackhawk in 44Magnum seems to be the preferred chambering). Although I have considered a pistol as an option to back up when others are designated as the shooter, I'm hesitant to use as my primary for a couple of reasons. Shot opportunities can occur in several scenarios 1) a treed bear in which shots are taken at anywhere from 10-40 yards. Head shots are preferred as it is important to have a near instant kill to avoid potential injury to the hounds as they rush in when the bear falls. In ideal situations we get them all tied up and held back a few yards but ideal situations and bear hunting do not always go hand in hand. The second shot scenario is a bayed bear which is on the ground, surrounded by dogs and often in the most inhospitable terrain imaginable. Again headshots for an instant kill are preferred but heart/lung or through the shoulder shots are sometimes necessary. Finally, sometimes shots are available when a running bear crosses a trail being chased by the pack. In this scenario, the target is the shoulders with rapid follow up shots likely. I feel much more comfortable in all the scenarios with a rifle. I don't have a lot of experience with pistols.

Loggah and Why1895, those are nice looking rigs. As you can tell from my description above, bear guns take a ton of wear and tear in the thickets and rock cliffs. A few years ago my father was carrying his old marlin 336 thru a thicket leading dogs back from a tree and his sling came unattached. With dogs pulling, a pack, heavy coat, and tangled in the laurels he didnt notice when it came loose. He only realized when he got back to the truck at dark. It was several days before he could backtrack and find the gun. In the intervening days a bear had taken several bits on the buttstock. Attracted to the smell of the hand oils I suppose or perhaps motivated to take revenge on a gun that has taken dozens of bear over the decades. That gun still carries the tooth marks. As noted above my plan would be to find a real beater/rat in good mechanical condition for this purpose. I do love a fine looking rifle though and suspect a mid-century 99 with a schnabel forend in 300 savage is in my future.

S99VG,
Scopes are untenable due to weight and proclivity to damage. I'll require iron sights with an appeture to take advantage fo the longer sighting radius My 94 trapper with factory open sights had such a short sight radius I could barely hit the target until I put on an Skinner sight a couple of years ago. I now have a fold down rear sight which I employ along with the peep when I can take carefull aim. Three sight objects all in a row really helps me out.

Again thanks to all.

Red Spruce, I don't know what it weighs, or the relationship in weight 30 vs 358. Savage had many different models and barrel weights so comparing across the board would be hard. The lightest weight 358 is surely the 99F, but they regularly sell for $1500. Check out this 99F 358- It was rusty and rough when I got it. Very lightweight and completely impervious to rain and snow with a powdercoated finish. Tough as hell. I hunt elk in the late season with it. I've since shortened the barrel to 20". Everybody here loves it they're just too bashful to admit it.

What Roy said, a 99F with the lightweight barrel and drilled out stock is about as light as you are going to get with a 99. Actually the outer barrel contours are all the same except for a 284, which has a heavier barrel, so the bigger the bore the lighter the barrel. A 358 F would weight less than a 308 F. Maybe I should say should weigh less. Other factors such as wood density affect weight also.

David, I have a forearm you might like on your carbine. It's a 99F with the barrel boss cutout and without checkering.

It sounds like what I need. I could carve a schnable into it and shorten it some more. I had just been thinking an 1899H solid frame forearm might be the right length but I bet there aren't any of them around doggy enough that I would be willing to modify it. Send me a PM with more info.

This is perfect info wyo1895. Sounds like I need to keep an eye out for a beater 99F in 300, 308, 356, or 375. I suppose a 99E or other version woudl work. Just a bit heavier.

I have what has been referred to as tomato stake. It is a later model E, originally 308 that was rebored to 358 win by JES. Has a peep sight. Don't remember bbl length, but on the short side, maybe 20 inches. It would be perfect for you, and you can whack off the bbl if you want. I got it to use as a beater truck gun. If you want to see it, I can get some pics in a couple weeks. It stays at the mtn cabin.


Charlie

I think there are two sighting arrangements that really make the 99 shine. One is a receiver sight and the other is a low mounted low power scope. And I’m not sure which is best???

Send me your address and I'll send it to you to try.

My experience with black bears (5x) is that you hit 'em in the "boiler room" and they are down and dead in seconds. Less than 10. The only way to top that is a head shot I suppose. And mine were with archery equipment.

It sounds like for the most part the hounds tree the bear in which case your 30-30 in the right spot has plenty of power and close range to do the job quickly.

As discussed, you have lots of ways to go regarding a "trapper" sort of thing if you feel a change is in order.
The only other thing I'll toss out is a cut 12 gauge w/slug. Possibly the stock as well. That would be short, light weight and powerful. Having said that, I'd stick with the 30-30 unless an upgrade falls into your lap.

Will do. Thanks, David

Posted this on the wrong thread. Here's the forearm David and I are chatting about for his carbine. Looks like a factory 99F w/o checkering to me-

Charlie,
Please do. no hurry though this "project" will need to fit in to several others.

Southern,
Those few seconds can do some real damage to a fine hound dog. We've had several dogs to get injured this year due to poor or misplaced shots that were ultimately lethal just not immediately so. Most the bear I have taken were indeed treed but it seems our local bears are more prone to baying or even crawling in a "hole" under a rock ( makes for a REALLY interesting harvest sequence) lately. Last year I was within 10 yards of fairly large bears on two occasions and couldn't get off a shot due to either dogs being in the way or insufficient time when shot opportunities presented themselves.

You are certainly correct that my existing 30-30 is ample medicine but why have one gun when I can have two for the same purpose. Still, there are other projects pending so something will need to fall into my lap or come with an attractive price tag.

Finally, some guys do carry shotguns. My first bear was taken with a NEF single shot 12 ga although most who carry a scattergun trend to a pump or auto. There are times, however rare, where a shot opportunity is up to 100 yrds to I'd like to stick with a rifle. Now that I type this out I realize how specialized the criteria are for these hunts!

Yea, I hear ya.
My experience with "deer technology" is that higher power knocks them off their feet due to concussion and they're dead before they can get up.
Same rules probably apply to black bears. Seconds is everything.
Beyond that, every situation is a little different, plan & execute accordingly.
Good luck!

I'd think a short barrel 99 would be very butt heavy. Not a great trait for offhand shooting.

Be hard to beat an F in 300 Savage or 308 Win with a receiver sight and a sturdy 180 grain bullet for this task.

And it could be done for a reasonable price as well.

Just sayin...

I really hate to say this but I think the Winchester 94 and 92 make better trapper platforms. Again, I loathe to say that it’s hard to beat a trapper 94 in handiness. The long 99 action just puts way too much out front. If you ever compare a shot barrel 94 or Marlin to a short barrel 99 the other two makes always end up being the more compact package. The 50s era F to was about as balanced as the 99 got for me for post war guns.

The trick is the lightened F buttstock.

Hmm, didn’t think about that. Are you using a stock from the F or making modifications?

I'm going to put lightning holes in the aftermarket stock on my shortened 99F. It is a little butt heavy now.

S99VG, anyone would be hard pressed to disagree with you on this point. My 92 carbine is about perfect in terms of Handiness, like a Proto wrench in my hands. Problem is the limitations on the cartridges that come with the 92 and 94 for longer distances and they have a Winchester action that have far too many parts for my taste.

I do have a Pre War Savage 99 Carbine in .303 that comes very close in handiness to the 92 although I do not think anything will ever beat the 92/94 for handiness.

I had a Marlin 94 in 44 mag I liked, though I think the Winchester/Browning 92s are a bit better. I had thought about taking the barrel down to 18-inches but I don’t have It anymore. But the 1894 Marlin still catches my attention.

Not modified. I think one of my carbines is an F and the other is probably an EG butt.

Perhaps the root of y'all's theory lies in the Winchester/Marlin magazine tube under their barrels, putting a bit of weight up forward to counterbalance the buttheavy-ness of the trapper configuration. The Savage obviously is devoid of that feature and the more barrel that's removed the more butt heavy it becomes. Steelhead is right. At what point does hollowing the butt stock become a diminishing return strength-wise?

Having spent a lot of hours chasing grouse in some pretty godawful thick bush (laurel/pine/greenbriar choked boulder-strewn hill sides), I never felt handicapped in the least with 28", and sometimes longer, shotgun barrels. Ditto the time spent deer hunting in the same terrain with 36-40" barreled traditional muzzle loaders. Granted, grouse and deer don't present a potentially frightful challenge as do bears, but still when the chips are down I would welcome the advantage of a weight forward long gun for instinctive offhand shooting.

If you put a 94 Winchester with a 20-inch barrel and a 99 Savage with a 20-inch barrel side by site the Savage is the longer package of the two. That, coupled with the cock on closing action just makes the "Trapper" 99 a little more awkward. My old man was a mechanic (starting on bombers in the 8th Air Force and progressing through International Trucks and John Deere tractors) who taught me the subtle yet major differences in tool design. There's a reason why Snap On and Mac are the "go to" mechanics tools. Their designs are simply refined better for getting things done that say Craftsman tools (which, if they are still in business, are a hell of a deal for the garage mechanic). Same thing with Marshalltown for masons. Try using a crappy ill-balanced trowel all day long and then telling me it isn't a wrist breaker. I like the 99 but I don't find it the top choice for a compact lever action carbine - which isn't saying it (obviously) can't be done.

Heres a 303 trapper i built years ago ,the barrel had a bulge so it got shortened to 16 1/2". With the heavy barrel it balances perfectly. but it is not that light. It is on a takedown frame so its pretty short when dis- assembled. Don

Loggah,

How is that "99-carbine" for hunting in the "thick stuff" & what load do you use??

yours, tex

To be truthfull i have never even fired it ,since i put it together!! I was going to use it as a "skidder" gun but never did. I have quite a few i have never shot. Not enough time to use them all ! Don

S99VG,
Total overall length may wind up being a major deciding factor for me. My trapper is right at 34". I have attached a magazine tube clamp style sling swivel ~2.5" from the barrel which puts the muzzle right at ear height or thereabouts when standing. I was initially concerned with safety of having the muzzle that close to my head but I am VERY strict about never carrying the gun with the sling when loaded. By carrying in this manner I can navigate the mountain laurel and rhododendron thickets without having the barrel snag on every limb and twig. I;m often on hands and knees when getting hear a bear and this capability is the biggest advantage about the trapper length rifle for my purposes. I'm willing to give up a little on the balance scale for overall length. Since I started carrying it I have had several offers to buy.


Several folks expressed a concern about balance. While a 99F might be the lightest option for me I am thinking one of the other models with the less tapered barrel may provide a better balance without giving up too much in weight. As described above its the overall length and profile while carrying over the shoulder that really is key. On the topics of shotguns: given the minimum barrel length of 18.5" and the slightly ( maybe perceived) longer receiver length of most shotguns I think the overall length would create problems.

This one is a bit off balance, but will do 1.5" or so groups at 100 yards with 150 grain corelokt. Youngest son's rifle. He got a nice doe in 2017 with it. IIRC it is from 1937 or 1938. It came that way.

Makes more sense.

As for shotguns, I automatically think double gun when someone says shotgun. Weird in this day and age I suppose. An 18.5" double gun would make for a crazy short gun, and provide two shots quicker than an autoloader (given double triggers). Picture the "Lupos" slung over the shoulders of Sicilian paisanos.

You could always look for a 60s vintage 99E. I think they all pretty much came with 20-inch barrela and Savage retained the lever safety on that model. The E just doesn't have the cartridge counter, which one could argue makes for a more sealed and protected action.

gnoahhh,

TRUST ME, my old "Lupara" stopped many an ugly "bar brawl, out on the county line", when I was a Texas City Marshal in the 1970's. W/O firing a shot. = A "sawed-off" 12-gauge DB looks like a howitzer from "the business end".
(I never shot any living thing with the "sawed-off" except a rabid stray dog.)

yours, tex

DarlaG, That intimidating hole in the Navy's Remington Model 870 riot guns was my argument for us being armed with a shotgun for disarming some pretty wrought up South Vietnamese pilots during the evacuation of Saigon. We were the guys pushing the South Vietnamese Huey's off the helo decks of the Navy ships.

wyo1895,

Fyi, the last known uniformed US soldier, who left Saigon, was a MP E-6, who backed up the ramp of a CH-47, while holding a 870 riot-gun. = NOBODY tried to follow him aboard, either.

There is a framed photo of him in the MP Museum at "Fort Lost in the Woods".

ADDENDA: I spent about half of my Army career OCONUS & always found it "rather odd" that "foreigners", even in nations where FULL-AUTO firearms are commonplace (& even in places where the local police routinely are armed with SMG), see our US Armed Forces riot-shotguns as "excessively brutal"

yours, tex

The best defense is too make the b.....d afraid of you. I was the senior Marine on the USS Mobile and at the meeting arming us with 1911's or M1's was favored by the XO and several others. I favored the 870 for the intimidation factor plus it was powerful enough to reach anywhere on the flight deck. We were dealing with some really scared soldiers who were our allies. We sure didn't want to shoot any of them but they were armed and SCARED. We had to show them who was boss. I was never in country but had some interesting experiences. I covered these in an article that appeared in a copy of "Military" magazine about the middle of 2017.

wyo1895,

YEP.

yours, tex

Not exactly a trapper, but a 99F I sold to a buddy, and he had it shortened to 19". Its in 300 Sav.
I have a win.94 trapper in 44 mag that I think is an ideal brush gun.

My latest trapper. 16.25" bbl with a Remington front sight, mainly for looks and a Lightfoot mount with Leupold M8 3X on it. Good old 300 Savage.
Can't wait for better weather to try it out.

Jim, I like it! Turned out nice!

You don't need sling swivels on that DJ, ...you need a holster!

Well, then you best make one for me then........

Red Spruce, check your pm's, might have found you something to think about

That 358 looks awesome.

Jeff that 358 got a Farrell rail today and is getting a Burris fastfire 3 asap.

I was walking through a gun show in Tacoma about 30 yrs ago and a fellow was trying to trade a 99 in 308 with a 16 1/4" barrel and he had no takers. It actually looked pretty good so I offered him a $100 and he took it. I shortened the stock to youth length for me(I'm short) and it was a deer killing machine. I mostly still hunt the forests of NW WI and I had a three deer morning with it the first day out, one buck and two does before noon. It doted on 180gr RN's. My little nephew was hunting with a H&R single shot 30-30 that was too long in the stock for him. Seeing as my tags were full I let him use the 99 and told him he could borrow it until he got his first deer with it, then it was his, thirty years later he's still killing deer with it. He took a job away from home so his sister refinished the 99 and she took it out this past season.

That's a good story Erich, you should convince her to share some pictures!

Yeah, that’s a great story!

A guy on the House of Homelite website posted a pic of his mother, back in the 50's with a real nice deer hanging that she took with her 99. Only problem was she had the rifle in front of her leg and it's in the shadows, so you can hardly see it.

I went back and checked. He said his mom got the 99 for her birthday in 1956, it's an "F", didn't mention what caliber. It's hanging on her shoulder and all you can see is the butt stock and part of the lever. Still a cool picture.

The Farrell rail I started with wasn't needed and was unnecessarily heavy and bulky, so it got a weaver front mount. Burris Fastfire III. Sight has 4 brightness settings and 3 moa dot. Weighs nothing and carries like an unscoped rifle but is much easier to sight with than iron sights with my eyes. This thing will be murder in the brush. Can't wait to shoot it.

I've had a Fastfire mounted on my .358 F now for about 3 years. Have taken a black bear and a moose with it. It is so light and easy to aim that I would never go back to irons or a scope on that rifle.

That's good to hear!

That's good to hear!

I have a little Bushnell red dot mounted on a T in .300 Sav. also, but I realize that that is almost too blasphemous to discuss here. What a pleasure it is to shoot with though. You never need a cheek weld. Great for 100 yd or less shots from tree stands.

Wondering how it does in low light

With the state of technical wizardry we enjoy today, I'm waiting for them to make those red dot thingies small enough to fit on the stem of a tang sight or onto the slide of a receiver sight. Then I'll buy one.

Both of mine do great in low light, though they do not gather light as a scope does, and they are most definitely close range optics. But those are the shots I choose to take anyway at this stage of my life as a hunter. I am no longer a "long range" hunter (meaning 200+yrds- LOL).

What is the effective range of the red dot sight? I imagine light conditions may bring quite a variance?

Gents,

This is exactly what to do. I have a 99e. I want to put a longer forearm on in with the Schnabel. I also want to do it in nutmeg laminate. What are your suggestions on getting this done?

thinking about cutting down a 22 hp t 3 inches of barrel 2 inches off but stock drill and tap for scope any other idea's to ruin a nice savage also ask Loggah how his nose got bent

what no feed back just trying to put a little humor into these screwed up times were in. I wish I had 22 hp t to complete my t's as for loggah;s bent nose first time tricycle wreck 2nd time involved hard cider that's all I have to say about that

Thanks, we need a little releif about now. You gonna put a red dott on that thang?

I have the same brush gun I bought several years ago here on the 'fire. It had a barrel obstruction and was shortened to I believe 17 1/4" The 35 Winchester can do what you ask and if the stock is shortened to the shortest LOP you can utilize you will have a great gun for the treed bear. Use a cast WFN sort of a 250 gr or more. Lots of energy transfer will happen. Be Well, Rustyzipper.

Gee, I've never known Don to get his nose out of joint!

1: These old long dead threads continuing to show up proves how bored out their freekin' minds everybody is right now.

2. Don's nose may be bent but I'd hate to see the other guy...

Iv had a glass of Topnotch99s Cider, great stuff till you try to stand Up!

I'm so bored I bought another gun today after I said I wasn't going to buy anymore.

Now I have to sell one.

It never ends....

If a guy wants to spiff up a 99 "his way" want have a hunter, let it be a 99E that he does it with.

Stocks swap easily. Pick up that nutmeg laminate, let us know how the fit is, and have fun.

Or you could buy a Winchester 99 Carbine in 308, that comes with a 19" barrel. GW

Huh?

Guessing that he's 11 too high.

Roy, who did your iron sights?

how would a .303 do in op's scenario? 99 T in 303 I have lightfoots mount on it.

My bear gun is a Marlin 1895GS in .45-70. Though around here the longest shot someone is going to get is about 75 yards. 18.5" barrel, pretty handy rifle. You can pick them up used cheaper than you could get a shooter 99 in the calibers mentioned.