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Yes, I handload. For full disclosure, where possible I use Lapua brass, then Norma and then others although I'm looking forward to developments with the emerging case manufacturers like Alpha, ADG and Petersen. Lapua/Norma are preferred through hard won experience as when I start reloading I will batch the available brass - the variation between good ol' Hornady/Winchester/Federal brass in the same packet is scary and will not help in the long run.
My issue is that I have an innate dislike of faddish behavior perpetrated by manufacturer marketing and industry magazines/websites which are sometimes nothing more than advertorials. I know there is an industry out there to sell products, be they rifles, ammunition, or column inches (or is that column electrons now?). I look forward to reading about it, but don't think I won't consider the outcomes with a level head and call BS when the words don't add up to reality.
My point is, and remains that there are equally effective products for those who choose to use them. Yes, they do lack ammunition options across the counter which makes them a reloader choice, but they are as effective as the Creedmoor.
You may want to reconsider labelling me (and some others here) an "anti-Creedmoor rifle loony".[/url]
If you cost your company three times as much money in materials and four times as much money in time to do the same job the guy in the cube next to you does, please help me understand how on Earth you are just as effective as he is?
Last edited by seattlesetters; 01/04/19.
What could be a sadder way to end a life than to die having never hunted with great dogs, good friends and your family?
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Adamjp,
"Where possible I use Lapua brass, then Norma and then others although I'm looking forward to developments with the emerging case manufacturers like Alpha, ADG and Petersen. Lapua/Norma are preferred through hard won experience as when I start reloading I will batch the available brass - the variation between good ol' Hornady/Winchester/Federal brass in the same packet is scary."
--Gee, I am also VERY well acquainted with Lapua and Norma brass, along with Petersen and others. But have been using Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor brass since 2010, when I bought my first 6.5 Creedmoor rifle, and off-the-shelf Ruger Hawkeye at a local store. Also bought a few boxes of factory ammo, and the rifle's very first 5-shot group at 100 yards with 140-grain A-Max factories went .6". The brass proved very consistent in dimensions, and had also lasted for many handloads since then--along with subsequent 6.5 Hornady brass. In fact I've found Hornady brass in a bunch of other rounds from the .250 Savage to .300 Weatherby excellent in every respect in the past several years. Have also been using Hornady brass for my new 6.5 PRC, in a custom rifle with a Lilja barrel that weights about 7-1/2 pounds scoped. It shoots half-inch FIVE-shot groups with either Hornady factory ammo, or several handloads using OTB Hornady brass.
"Simple fact is that when first launched the Creedmoor was heavily marketed by Hornady, just like they did the 204 Ruger before it, and most recently with the 6.5 PRC (full page adverts in the magazines, pushing product to the reviewers in print and online). Nothing wrong with that, but you must admit that Hornady do have a habit of strong marketing campaigns, sometimes for pretty mediocre product."
Yeah, Hornady promoted the 6.5 Creedmoor during its first three years, just like any company does. But I had learned long ago to wait a little before trying any new round, to see if it lasted. Which is why I waited until 2010 before buying one, along with ammo. Bought it because the trusted guys at the local gun store said both rifles and ammo shot great, not because of anything I read. The word-of-mouth proved to be accurate. (Oh, and I did the same thing with the .204, and found it was everything claimed by Hornady, when using their ammo in an off-
the-shelf rifle.)
"My issue is that I have an innate dislike of faddish behavior perpetrated by manufacturer marketing and industry magazines/websites which are sometimes nothing more than advertorials. I know there is an industry out there to sell products, be they rifles, ammunition, or column inches (or is that column electrons now?). I look forward to reading about it, but don't think I won't consider the outcomes with a level head and call BS when the words don't add up to reality."
Would love to hear how "faddish" applies to a cartridge that is now a world-wide standard, a dozen years after its introduction.
"My point is, and remains that there are equally effective products for those who choose to use them. Yes, they do lack ammunition options across the counter which makes them a reloader choice, but they are as effective as the Creedmoor."
Oh, gee, what an insight. I might just run out and buy rifles chambered in those other rounds, but already own just about every one you would list, and none are the first I've owned in those chamberings, often going back at least two decades. Once again,your answer was exactly what I expected.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
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Adamjp,
Your response to my question about "equally effective" cartridges was exactly what I expected.
The anti-Creedmoor rifle loonies who inhabit the Campfire (like you) apparently believe EVERY shooter and hunter on earth handloads, and is willing to spend considerable money on custom rifles or rebarreling, to use other 6.5 cartridges than the Creedmoor.
But why should they, when they can buy off-the-rack rifles and factory ammo that will do the same things? I purchased my present 6.5 Creedmoor for the vast sum of $350, and for another $25 can buy a box of factory ammo that groups 5 shots well under an inch. And my rifle's very first 5-shot group at 100 yards with handloads measured .33 inch, which is not exactly an aberration. The other three factory 6.5 Creedmoors I've owned were also very accurate.
...
Yes, there are reasons beside the "recent" publicity on the 6.5 Creedmoor for its extreme popularity. I put "recent" in quotes because the cartridge was introduced a dozen years ago, and has kept growing in popularity since then. Most new factory centerfire rounds only sell well for 2-3 years before starting to fade. That's because publicity can only do so much, and factoryPR departments can only afford to flog some new cartridge for a short time before the cartridge must stand on its own. (In a way, it's like book publishing. If a new book doesn't continue selling after the initial announcement and publicity, then the company eventually quits printing copies, because there's no sense in printing books that never leave warehouses.)
Cartridges that become profitable within that initial period usually stick around for a while, and those that are selling FAR better after a dozen years tend to become world standards, meaning that just about every company making sporting rifles chambers them, and just about every ammunition company makes ammo. That is exactly what's happened with the 6.5 Creedmoor. Not only do major American companies produce both rifles and ammo, but so do many European companies--and that trend continues to spread.
...
But according to you, and others like you, the 6.5 Creedmoor's world-wide and growing popularity, a dozen years after its introduction, is totally due to publicity. John, Yes, I handload. For full disclosure, where possible I use Lapua brass, then Norma and then others although I'm looking forward to developments with the emerging case manufacturers like Alpha, ADG and Petersen. Lapua/Norma are preferred through hard won experience as when I start reloading I will batch the available brass - the variation between good ol' Hornady/Winchester/Federal brass in the same packet is scary and will not help in the long run. If I were asked by someone wanting to get into longer match ranges or a good rifle for light/medium game at any useful range I would certainly recommend a 6.5 Creedmoor. In fact I did back in November when one of my staff was about to undergo a shoulder reconstruction and doctors advice was 'no shooting' for a long time. I recommended a 6.5 Creed in a Varmit weight rifle with a very effective muzzle brake and a limbsaver recoil pad (the 30mm one). He starts shooting that next month (3 months after the surgery). The combination is such that it is an effective package and should be at the top for anyone. FWIW my staffer also reloads, but cannot for probably a year as he cannot manipulate the press post shoulder surgery. The longevity of the Creedmoor is down to the fact that it does work. As I said in an earlier post... ...I'm not saying the Creedmoor does not deserve a reputation for easy accuracy and useful performance for the everyman. There is no other combination that you could buy from most any sporting goods store that would perform as well out of the box - this is why the 223 is more popular than the 222 or 222 Magnum... Simple fact is that when first launched the Creedmoor was heavily marketed by Hornady, just like they did the 204 Ruger before it, and most recently with the 6.5 PRC (full page adverts in the magazines, pushing product to the reviewers in print and online). Nothing wrong with that, but you must admit that Hornady do have a habit of strong marketing campaigns, sometimes for pretty mediocre product. As you state, a cartridge popularity usually wanes after 2-3 years (the 6.8 SPC is the latest of a long line of Remingtons marketing missteps). That the Creedmoor continues to sell strongly suggests that it has reached a level of acceptance with the buying public, passing a fad stage several years ago and has became a benchmark cartridge. My issue is that I have an innate dislike of faddish behavior perpetrated by manufacturer marketing and industry magazines/websites which are sometimes nothing more than advertorials. I know there is an industry out there to sell products, be they rifles, ammunition, or column inches (or is that column electrons now?). I look forward to reading about it, but don't think I won't consider the outcomes with a level head and call BS when the words don't add up to reality. My point is, and remains that there are equally effective products for those who choose to use them. Yes, they do lack ammunition options across the counter which makes them a reloader choice, but they are as effective as the Creedmoor. You may want to reconsider labelling me (and some others here) an "anti-Creedmoor rifle loony". If you were to take a Tikka T3 Varmit in each of these cartridges, buy or assemble equal cartridges then it would difficult to spot a difference between them. Hmm, sounds difficult. Since they don't sell the T3 Varmit in 260 Remington, 7-08 Remington, 6.5x55 Swedish or 6.5x47 Lapua (NO PRODUCT). (Available in 6.5 Creedmoor.) As usual, you only look to what is sold over the counter in the USA, not what is available from the factory or by special order from Beretta USA. Tikka T3x Varmit Stainless Factory ProductionWhat is your age?
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Campfire Regular
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I like my 6.5CM Hunter and I can buy reasonably priced Ammo unlike my 260 Rem which was a reload only proposition, not that I minded.
Mind you, I do regret selling that Kimber Monatana 260.
The factory Ammo availability means I haven’t reloaded for the 6.5CM, yet!
Happy hunting.
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Campfire Tracker
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If you were to take a Tikka T3 Varmit in each of these cartridges, buy or assemble equal cartridges then it would difficult to spot a difference between them. Hmm, sounds difficult. Since they don't sell the T3 Varmit in 260 Remington, 7-08 Remington, 6.5x55 Swedish or 6.5x47 Lapua (NO PRODUCT). (Available in 6.5 Creedmoor.) HaHaHa! You must be stupid! Try calling Beretta USA and tell them you want to order one! Good luck! 
FÜCK Jeff_O!
MAGA
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Call Beretta and ask for duhh varmit. 
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Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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My point is, and remains that there are equally effective products for those who choose to use them. Yes, they do lack ammunition options across the counter which makes them a reloader choice, but they are as effective as the Creedmoor.
Well, it's hard to argue with such logic...
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Campfire Regular
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Ok, I’ll bite. How do the CMs feed from the magazine ?
That .462” diameter shoulder has me pondering that aspect of their performance. Fine Anyone care to elaborate ?
History May Not Repeat, But it Rhymes.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Sure. I have now owned four factory 6.5 Creedmoor rifles, a Ruger Hawkeye, Weatherby Vanguard, and two Ruger Americans. Have also shot several other 6.5 Creedmoors extensively, including a Franchi Momentum, H-S Precision and Fierce Arms. All fed cartridges fine.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Thanks MD 😉
It would appear then that the “Over-Improved” .462” CM shoulder isn’t a detriment to smooth feeding. Back in the day, lots of taper was the answer for smooth feeding.
Apparently not so much nowadays
History May Not Repeat, But it Rhymes.
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Campfire Ranger
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My dog is a member of the "Turd Like Clan"
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Campfire 'Bwana
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"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!"
--- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
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Campfire Regular
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History May Not Repeat, But it Rhymes.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Yes, it's good to have this resolved...
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!"
--- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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My grandson had Jon Beanland build him a 6.5 Creedmoor on a M700 Remington action and first day he got the rifle to my range he asked me to shoot three rounds with it. Photo below shows the shots. I told him the last shot broke just a tat low. This was with 147 gr. Hornady ammo. After getting a zero at 200 yards he shot this rifle all the way back to 800 yards and it shoots extremely well. Joel was constantly ringing a 6" swinger we have at 800 and frankly it's just damn boring to shoot! ![[Linked Image]](https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7872/31681875057_bf5cf39900_z.jpg) Untitled by Sharps Man, on [bleep] ![[Linked Image]](https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7880/32749039958_056d38b87e_z.jpg) Untitled by Sharps Man, on [bleep]
Last edited by Sharpsman; 01/10/19.
Even birds know not to land downwind!
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Glad this is resolved.....again.....and i can stop worrying about a chronograph, if my depends are leaking, and what the weather is in states im not currently in. Feels good to just to sit at loading bench with 6.5cm brass, 4350, and 147elds.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
Ok, I’ll bite. How do the CMs feed from the magazine ?
That .462” diameter shoulder has me pondering that aspect of their performance. Fine Anyone care to elaborate ? Yes, it feeds FINE, hence fine. Not sure how much more elaborate I can get.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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It's a neat round, with a lot of pluses, But I'm not really motivated to get something else in that .25-.284 size range. I do have an 8" twist .280AI in a Ruger#1 being built, and that one is going to be a super long range rig, without going to the big magnums.
I bought one of the more inexpensive AR-10's in 6½ CM, and it shoots very well in that platform, handily outshooting both of the .308's I have, including one with a bull barrel.
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I still don`t have one....but got a lot of 250AI brass with that headstamp! Shoots great! Think I`m getting some mo-jo off it.
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