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If the states received zero federal tax dollars or subsidies for the management of the game and lands within that state, or if the land within that state was wholly state owned with no federal lands or management, I might buy the argument that non residents have no say. The reality, however, is quite different.
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Joined: Aug 2005
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Campfire Outfitter
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Everyone is just pissed because Colorado finally wised up and is going to get the going rate for tags. It was a round about circle jerk of a process, but they finally arrived at a solution that simply mirrors most other western states.
Our tags are still cheaper than other states and actually far less than places like Montana or Iowa for deer. And they will still sell 100% of all available non-resident draw tags. And they can raise the prices by the same amount next year and they will still sell 100% of all the available tags.
I quit paying points years ago in all other states. I travel for bird hunting and shoot the piss out of surrounding states bird populations for around $100 a year. Everyone needs to find their work around.
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Joined: Jun 2006
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
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If the states received zero federal tax dollars or subsidies for the management of the game and lands within that state, or if the land within that state was wholly state owned with no federal lands or management, I might buy the argument that non residents have no say. The reality, however, is quite different. Not really. The reality is, you have no say in how the CP&W conducts its business and how much it charges for tags unless you're a resident, which is how it should be and it works both ways. Although you do have the vote with your feet option. Once again, the federal land is accessible to you but the animals are a public trust resource "owned" by the people of Colorado. You are not entitled to have a say in how our state agency manages them.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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You're right it's a fair question. I don't pretend to have the answer to it, all I did was ask you what your basis is for concluding that no game management happens on public land, which is also a fair question. And apparently a question you can't answer.
And you do know that population surveys are conducted from the air as well as on the ground, right?
My smart-ass comment is the result of reading a bunch of non-residents complaining about fees to hunt in other states. The common thread seems to be an attitude of entitlement, that you're entitled to pay a fee that you find acceptable. I never think of it that way, I look at the fees that other states charge and make a decision. If I don't like their fee structure I don't hunt there. Because as a non-resident I understand that I have no say in how other states conduct their business.
And I damn sure know that I'm not entitled to demand an accounting from state agencies in states I don't reside in. So take your "liberal" bullsh** and stuff it. Wrong again, if I have to spend more than $700. for a tag, resident or not I would think it would be reasonable to know what I am paying for. That would include some idea of what the state puts into game management for some understanding why the tag costs what it does. It seems you are some kind of troll actually so why would you argue against them putting out some evidence they do what they say we are paying for. LOL, they have an annual report, you should get a copy and read it. But let me ask you this-- is your decision to purchase or not purchase a tag based on whether CP&W is performing sound game management on public lands, or the price of the tag? And you still haven't answered my question. What is your contention that zero game management occurs on public land based on?
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,024 |
Been hunting elk off and on (actually a lot more on than off) in Colorado since 1963. Right now, I plan to go again this year if my health and conditioning holds up. Most of my "hunting buddies" no longer hunt, but a couple of them still show up at elk camp every year and they are willing to help me when I am fortunate enough to slay one.
Like some other posters here, I have been retired for a while, and basically living on a fixed income, and the cost of a nonresident license in Colorado keeps getting a little harder to justify to the Chancellor of the Exchequer each year. Nonetheless, I intend to be out there again, come the second weekend in October. Good post and good luck this year.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Dec 2006
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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If the states received zero federal tax dollars or subsidies for the management of the game and lands within that state, or if the land within that state was wholly state owned with no federal lands or management, I might buy the argument that non residents have no say. The reality, however, is quite different. Not really. The reality is, you have no say in how the CP&W conducts its business and how much it charges for tags unless you're a resident, which is how it should be and it works both ways. Although you do have the vote with your feet option. Once again, the federal land is accessible to you but the animals are a public trust resource "owned" by the people of Colorado. You are not entitled to have a say in how our state agency manages them. Again, I completely understand the established thought process, and whether or not I agree with it, its the way it is. I also understand that arguing, or even debating, this approach is fruitless, as the only opinion held with regard "Pay it and be glad we let you, or stay out." The sad reality is that I would absolutely love to pay it....year after year, when in fact, the more they raise the costs, the less likely it becomes I will ever be able to hunt out west, and even more unlikely my son will. OTC is still an option, but not for mule deer in many places. In the end, big game hunting is a luxury, and will remain as such as long as there is money in it.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I hear you and it's a shame that many people who would like to hunt here can't afford an out-of-state hunt. I wish all tags were a lot less than they are now but as 30338 observed, Colorado is just coming up to par with other states.
With our over-the-counter unlimited bull tags and the numbers of draw tags that CP&W sells, if the tags were much less than other states we'd be more overrun with the orange army than we are now. It would be easier to afford, but not worth your time in my opinion.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Not really. The reality is, you have no say in how the CP&W conducts its business and how much it charges for tags unless you're a resident, which is how it should
You're a resident, tell me how you effectively have any say in CP&W business and how much they charge for tags.
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Joined: Dec 2006
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I hear you and it's a shame that many people who would like to hunt here can't afford an out-of-state hunt. I wish all tags were a lot less than they are now but as 30338 observed, Colorado is just coming up to par with other states.
With our over-the-counter unlimited bull tags and the numbers of draw tags that CP&W sells, if the tags were much less than other states we'd be more overrun with the orange army than we are now. It would be easier to afford, but not worth your time in my opinion.
That is the ever present conundrum, isn't it? Do we increase hunter numbers to save the sport, or do we restrict them to keep them from over running everything? I guess I just always assumed that once I got to be a grown up, I would be able to afford a few decent western hunts. As I was growing up, I kept watching prices creep higher and higher. Like many things, I see, to have just missed the "good old days," just as younger folks than me will say later down the road.
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Joined: Jun 2006
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,024 |
Not really. The reality is, you have no say in how the CP&W conducts its business and how much it charges for tags unless you're a resident, which is how it should
You're a resident, tell me how you effectively have any say in CP&W business and how much they charge for tags. Same way any residnet of any other state has a say. They hold public meetings and they ask for comments on proposed changes. And I vote.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 11,352
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I plan on stopping applying for moose this year so that $50 they won't get. May apply for goat still but this is the last year of that for sure, already killed one anyway. So I'll have my say by not spending on those tags. I had my say in Arizona, Iowa, New Mexico and Utah by stopping applying for tags there. They didn't notice as there are thousands lined up clinching their cash and ready to pay. No concern of mine really. There is more to life than this stuff lol. But it makes for fun arguments while January fades away.
Good luck to you Mudhen, hope you have a great time and see/kill your elk.
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
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Not really. The reality is, you have no say in how the CP&W conducts its business and how much it charges for tags unless you're a resident, which is how it should
You're a resident, tell me how you effectively have any say in CP&W business and how much they charge for tags. Same way any residnet of any other state has a say. They hold public meetings and they ask for comments on proposed changes. And I vote. And I highly doubt your input was even slightly considered or mattered, which is why I said "effectively".
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,024
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
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There's that entitlement attitude again. As an individual, I don't expect to get my way with these things. Government doesn't work that way at any level.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,612
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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All this talk of increasing costs....may have to just modify my western states hunting goals. The older I get, the more a big ol Tom Turkey or a coyote on a string excites me. Hell of a lot easier to pack out, too.
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Joined: Oct 2002
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2002
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There's that entitlement attitude again. As an individual, I don't expect to get my way with these things. Government doesn't work that way at any level. What a dimwit! The federal lands are properties for all of us not just a bunch of closed door lefties. And why do you think Colorado is above scrutiny? Do you think they have something to hide?
Dog I rescued in January ![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/yYDjsxrQ/IMG-0124.jpg)
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Joined: Oct 2002
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Campfire Outfitter
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You're right it's a fair question. I don't pretend to have the answer to it, all I did was ask you what your basis is for concluding that no game management happens on public land, which is also a fair question. And apparently a question you can't answer.
And you do know that population surveys are conducted from the air as well as on the ground, right?
My smart-ass comment is the result of reading a bunch of non-residents complaining about fees to hunt in other states. The common thread seems to be an attitude of entitlement, that you're entitled to pay a fee that you find acceptable. I never think of it that way, I look at the fees that other states charge and make a decision. If I don't like their fee structure I don't hunt there. Because as a non-resident I understand that I have no say in how other states conduct their business.
And I damn sure know that I'm not entitled to demand an accounting from state agencies in states I don't reside in. So take your "liberal" bullsh** and stuff it. You appear to be the liberal jackass acting as if your state government is accountable to no one. Wrong again, if I have to spend more than $700. for a tag, resident or not I would think it would be reasonable to know what I am paying for. That would include some idea of what the state puts into game management for some understanding why the tag costs what it does. It seems you are some kind of troll actually so why would you argue against them putting out some evidence they do what they say we are paying for. LOL, they have an annual report, you should get a copy and read it. But let me ask you this-- is your decision to purchase or not purchase a tag based on whether CP&W is performing sound game management on public lands, or the price of the tag? And you still haven't answered my question. What is your contention that zero game management occurs on public land based on? Based on your inability to cite any of it. So you think vague population survey's done by air is all the game management Colorado should have to do?
Dog I rescued in January
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,911
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Posts: 22,911 |
I think the CPW should use some of that extra non-res increase funds to hire a couple phone monkeys to answer to all the texans that demand a full accounting of where each penny they spend here goes, and how....
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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maybe that'll shut 'em the hell up....
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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They'll be able to afford corn feeders now I reckon. I think corn = game management in a lot of areas.
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maybe that'll shut 'em the hell up.... I doubt it.... LOL!
Life Member NRA, RMEF, American Legion, MAGA. Not necessarily in that order.
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