Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Is the 450 Marlin dead?

I was kicking around the idea of building a 450 Marlin in a Ruger M77 bolt gun for a handy little bear gun. Looking at availability of brass doesn’t look too promising. E.R. Shaw makes barrels and can fit and tune the rifle but the brass is key as you can’t make the brass from anything else. Thinking a 458X2” American might be a better option for such a project as they are pretty much the same.

You can't cut down .458 WinMag brass for it? Is the belt dimension different, or something?

Mine sure kills stuff dead! There’s a decent amount of Hornady brass in a couple local shops here. Been on the shelf for quite a while. If you decide to go with the build, pm me, and I can hook you up with the brass.

Well, after looking in a Hornady manual I see what you already know: The belt is longer on the .450 Marlin.

In that case, couldn't one get a barrel chambered in .450 Marlin, and then simply take some off the breech face in order to shorten that distance? Then, you could use cut-down .458 WinMag cases. Right?

I like my BLR .450 Marlin and still think its the best lever rifle available today.....Hb

I still shoot mine quite a bit.

Here in Ohio the ammo is readily available, likely due to our straight walled case law for deer hunting.

Just curious....what's wrong with the 450 Bushmaster? No brass issues with the .450 Bushmaster, in fact I've hears the cartridge is becoming the Michigan state flower.

I got a buddy that has a Ruger American in 450 Bushmaster, it is very accurate but it reeks of cheapness .......Hb

Get a Marlin .45-70. You can it to 450 Marlin velocities and a bit more. Components are plentiful, too, and if there are any rifles more fun than a Marlin or Winchester lever, I don't know what it is.

Knocked a 6x6 bull elk down with mine at 213 lasered yards. It was standing still when shot and didn't move. Was getting ready to take a second shot when it fell over sideways.

It's been dead. I used to have two of them when they were relevant and you could find ammo and brass. I got out of them and am glad I did.

I like my Marlin in 450. I've shot three bears with it and I've got enough brass to last the rest of my life. If I was getting a new punkin' roller, however, I'd go with a 45-70 or one of the choices mentioned.

It was DOA.

You're better off with the 458x2" American. You'll never run out of brass and the load data available is for bolts. Finding data for the 450 in bolts is not as easy, since you could run much higher pressure.

"I was kicking around the idea of building a 450 Marlin in a Ruger M77 bolt gun for a handy little bear gun."


If using .452 bullets does not deter you (and the 200 to 250 grain weight range-for jacketed spitzer bullets), then here's a 450 Bushmaster on the Ruger Hawkeye, stainless.

The Barnes bullet sounds to be the best for game that I have read (No personal experience with the cartridge... Yet).

The short and handy Ruger American Ranch is a lot less money... got a couple (in other calibers, they shoot good, but are not as classy as a Hawkeye).

Starline has the brass.

Not as potent as the 450 Marlin.

I think 'Randy's' is the only place that has the 450 in the Hawkeye and the Ranch in stainless.

Jerry

Ruger Model 77 Hawkeye;
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/795329382

Ruger Ranch Stainless;
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/792194557

Unless you need it to be in a short action I would just use a 458 win mag. Otherwise, if your a handloader I’d prob just do a 458x2. Matt made his brass off of 300 win mag brass and it worked fine. I loaded for it. If you want a 458, a 20-21” win mag isn’t a bad thing. After shooting big bores all my life I am just accepting they are a $hitty way to get results

Yeah I gave up on them too after owning a bunch over the years. As Stick says they're a heavy series of concessions.

Yes. But, then you end up with the 458X2” American which is a wildcat that was designed by Barnes some time ago. The 450 Marlin was based off this cartridge to duplicate it’s and the performance of top end 45-70 loads. The Marlin is 2.10” in case length and has the thicker/longer belt. The difference in the belt was intended to keep folks from chambering it into other standard magnum rifles and firing it. I had a 450 Marlin before in a guide gun but sold it. The round performed well but I care how the lever racked my knuckles every time I shot it.

Well 450 Marlin ammo is available. So you could just stock up arms either shoot it all for the brass, or pull the bullets. Hornady will likely make occasional runs of it. Just have to be Johnny on the spot when it's on the shelf. Or search classified forums around the web.

Another thing to consider is that the chamber is going to be cut for short blunt bullets. This may limit what you can load.

That may just be the best option. A plain old fashioned Marlin 1895 lever gun. I know there are aftermarket “big loop” levers. $80 in Brownells. Maybe I’ll save my short action bolt for a 338 Federal or 358 Winchester. At least I could always use 308 brass ran over a tapered expander plug for loading.

Don't know if it's dead or just another niche cartridge. I think Browning still sells a BLR, in addition to the Marlin. The .444 never set the world on fire either, but hangs on because it does its job.

My thoughts were it was never alive.


One more time one had to think, what's the point.
Heavy 45-70 loads are more available than 450 loads.
And it was a duplicate.

These attempts at a new cartridge can't be well thought out.

30TC.
Here we have a short action cartridge that is more like a standard 06 than a 308.
Using special powders only the factories have.

So, to get that performance, you need Hornady's hot loads.
Which match their hot 308's.
Makes sense?

But, they necked it down to 6.5 to make the Creedmoor and set the world on fire. Worthy sacrifice.

Perhaps if you look at it from the perspective of when it came out it would make more sense.

When Marlin came out with the 450 Marlin (in 2000);

It was pre-internet (at least compared to what you can do today!), Buffalo Bore and Garret Ammo was not widely available like today (were they even around?), so buying hot loaded 45-70 ammo was a no go. None of the ammo companies loaded hot & heavy 45-70 for fear that some dingbat would take-out half the firing range when he loaded one in his trapdoor.

At the time I felt the same as You, as I reloaded for my Ruger No.1 and Marlin 1895, and for me there was no reason for it.
Of course today there is less reason for it, but it is much easier to set up a bolt rifle for the 450 Marlin than to find a Siamese Mauser and work out the feeding (had one of those also... fed great).


Now regarding the 30TC, I am totally with you there. Like many... it was undoubtedly conceived after a night of heavy drinking.

Jerry

Not dead, and probably won't be for a long time, but it is feeling poorly.
I went with a 444, which is still pretty available but not as much as the 45-70 that has surged.

It won't be dead as long as there is some factory fodder available. Right now, though, that's the only way I can find brass!

Fortunately, since most don't use them to shoot p-dogs, one doesn't need all that much brass.

A lot of the 450 Marlin seems to be “not well thought out.” To me it should have been brought out in a short action bolt at the same time as a lever action. My thoughts were a good thumper in a strong,compact bolt gun. I don’t need all of the horsepower and extra expense of a 458 Win Mag but a 400 grain.458 bullet at 1800-2000 FPS makes a lasting impression on a black bear fighting with hounds. 450 Bushmaster? Bullets in .452” just don’t Appeal to me for what I want. A lever action 45-70? Likely what I’ll end up with but as of late the QC of Remlin is a bit concerning and, a bolt is just stronger. I still may go with a 458X2” if I figure out where to get the work done. I have a Ruger M77 with a .308 bolt face so, new bolt,barrel and feed rail work.

I have one in a Marlin lever. I really like it for hunting off horseback, but it does kick my ass.

I killed a whitetail and a shiras moose with it. Good round but pretty specialized in it's application, especially if in a bolt rifle. Personally, I'd go 45-70 if I were to do it again.

No. Just use it.

Just looked, and Ruger lists the Number One, and Browning lists several models of their BLR so chambered, including the takedown version, so it ain't over just yet. Didn't even look at Marlins as despite some recent favorable press, there still seem to be some issues with them, unfortunately. Not for me, but a BLR, especially a takedown, might be handy in some cases. I doubt the BLR can be made to handle rimmed cases, so the .450 makes sense there.

Never even thought about the BLR. Might be worth considering. I hear they’re pretty accurate for a lever action.

Heavy loads were available, but only loonies would have known.
And there's the rub.

Who but a loonie doesn't think of the 45-70 as a short range cannon?
Who sees the "need" for something to fill the gap between 45-70 and 458?
How many want a short range anything?

Loonies do,
But they know of heavy 45-70 factory loads, or can DIY.
Or, can download the 458.

A lighter bolt in 450 would make sense to loonies, but as stated...

So, those who would want the chambering werent offered the gun that made most sense to them.
and few others felt the need for the thing to exist.

When I bought my BLR in a .358 Win, I was a little hesitant, but it's a light and handy. Great rifle. You can shoot mine anytime you want to do some shooting.

Marlin, same company that brought you the 45-70 - 1895 platform let’s the 444 Marlin swing in the wind while promoting the 450 Marlin and stops chambering the the 444 altogether. Then stops chambering the 450, now is chambering the 444 again. They sure wasted a lot of time in their business plan with that path. The 444 and 45-70 should have remained the two big bore lever chamberings throughout. There is a much greater fan base for the 444 than the 450, but both are tremendously less popular than the 45-70.

i really like my micro grooved JM Marlin 444. I enjoy shooting it, and my hunting buddies like it as well. with 265 grain Hornady factory loads, it is accurate and has all the recoil i want out of a big bore. the 450 Marlin would knock me into next week i am certain. i looked long and hard at the 450 when they came out... an aficionado's cartridge for sure. it isn't dead until you stop shooting it.

I bought a 450 Marlin Guide Gun almost immediately after they became available over 20 years ago. It's my carry carbine (iron sights) when not hunting here in Alaska. I absolutely love the rifle. I still have @ 60 original Hornady loads here (350 grain JFN, @ 2100 fps), @ 200 once fired (by me) cases, and @ 200 new cases from Hornady. During this most recent ammo crisis (beginning March 2020), even bullets were difficult to find. I finally got 200 Hawk bullets (350 grain JFN) and a few other powders for testing, trying to squeeze out another 100 fps. But before doing it, I wanted to get more brass (bullets and large rifle primers finally appear to be available now).

I just learned that I'm screwed, blued, and tattooed.

After regularly shopping online for brass over the past 3 years, I finally checked Hornady's [bleep] website (the new "Are you 18 years of age" lawyer roadblocks will eat up a half hour of your life) to find that brass not listed. I called. I was told that the brass is no longer available. They manufacture it only for their [bleep] 325 grain FTX plastic-pointy squirrel ammo. I pointed out that Buffalo Bore manufactures 450 Marlin brass, but Hornady told me that they do not sell brass to them. I checked Buffalo Bore's website, but the brass isn't advertised. I suppose I can waste another hour of life to hear that they, too, only sell loaded ammo.........

So you get brass by buying unwanted ammo loads and pulling bullets or firing it. Period. But wait; it gets worse. Hornady's 325 grain FTX load is in brass 1/10th inch shorter than their original brass, because the lighter 325 grain bullet has that pointy plastic thing in front making the bullet longer, even though it's lighter. So buying once fired brass will be a turkey shoot.........and you're the turkey. The shorter brass means reduced powder charges in order to achieve critical OAL length for crimping the straight walled case.

Really pisses me off.

Put a gold sling on it and kill deer expensively.

Maybe one day starline will start making it if no one else is. That is if they ever get caught up on everything else. Yoy 450 guys should all give starline a call. Theyre great people and there brass is great.

I load the Hornady 350g flat point bullet they used in the 450 loads in my 45/70 guide gun at almost 2100 fps. It's a powerful load and good bullet but it kicks too much for any chance at a follow up shot in my non ported guide gun. I'm starting to load cast bullets in it and slowing them down to 1500-1600 fps. I'm kind of dreading shooting up my old hot 350g loads.

Bb

The what?

Todd

Actually, the way things are going, EVERY caliber is dead unless it's one of the new-age calibers in 6.5, etc...