Home Forums Birds & Dogs Upland Game "Universal" upland bird loads? ..... What would you recommend?

Greetings fellow bird slayers,

What would you recommend for a "universal" shotshell load in the 12 gauge?

And 20 gauge?

In the 12 gauge I like the idea of creating a load that has 1 1/4 ounces (or as little as 1 1/8 ounces) of hard "magnum" (high antimony)shot that shoots at 1225-1250 feet-per-second, and a 1-ounce 20 gauge load that shoots at a similar velocity.

Hulls might be some old-style AA's I've hoarded, or Federal Gold Metal-types, but newer hulls will probably be Remington STS's.

Depending on the game (pheasant versus chukar versus ruff grouse or blue grouse, etc.) would determine what size of shot I selected. Of course the (re)load would depend on the hull/s I was using and what patterned-well in my shotgun/s.

Suggestions, please?

If you ARE going to change shot size, why not change charge weight as well? For pheasant, I like 1 3/8's of 5's, for ruffed grouse 7/8's of 7's.

If I shot "one load", it would be 1 1/8th's of 6's, STS hull, Clays, Win primer, Windjammer wad. 'Cause that's one of my best patterning target loads, and I have a boat load of components on hand. JMO, Dutch.

Thanks!

What velocities are you loading to?

At one time, before "magnumitis" hit the bird fields, 1-1/8 oz was considered standard in the 12, and 7/8 in the 20. I load all my upland guns to about 1250fps, never felt a need for more speed, and patterning is better with a moderate speed load. If forced to pick one shot size I would choose #6. I mostly use a 16 with one ounce of 6's.

Velocity is really not relevant in shotshells. What is critical is having enough pressure to make sure everything still works when it's 5 below, and that long-tailed old rooster comes up. Cold weather and shot shells can be a funny combination.

For the heavy loads with large pellets, 1150 to 1200 fps. That's for the 4's and 5's. I use Federal Gold Medal hulls and Fed wads, Win primer, and Longshot or Blue Dot. For the ruffed grouse loads (7/8ths) and blue, hun and sharptail loads (1 oz of 7's), I like to stay close to 1300 fps. Everything seems more consistent. I've been loading those with Titewad, and the WindjammerII wad.

For Chukar, 1 1/4 oz of 6's, Win wad, Gun club hulls, and Longshot. About 1250.

Generally, we go through about half a case of each through the season (four hunters in our family). My kids get really torqued when they miss three shots on a sharptail, and I scratch it down at 45 or 50 yards with an ounce of 7's. Chokes, practice and patience..... LOL! Dutch.

My experience is exclusivly on grouse sized birds: spruce hens, sharptails and ptarmigan. I quit using a 12 a long time ago because the guns I can afford were too heavy. A nice double 12 at 6lbs or less would be great. When I use a 12 I keep the loads to 1oz. 6 and 71/2s. These loads are lighter in weight, pattern well and still carry the punch. Now I use a 20, SKS 100 double, decent gun, I've learned to adjust to it, but it ain't no Merkel. My guns can get beat around so the SKS is fine. I like the 7/8oz load in the 20 with 71/2s and 6 shot size. My guns are choked IC and Mod.pak

For bobwhite quail and doves my loads were 1 1/8 oz in the 12 and 1 oz in the 20. #9 shot early and #8 later in the season.

For quail,dove,grouse I prefer the #7 1/2 shot,trap loads at wal-mart or bi-mart for 4 boxes for 15 bucks. I cant reload at that price.

I hunt mostly ringnecks and I normally carry a 12ga O/U. If I were restricted to just one load it would be 1 1/4 oz of nickel-plated #6's.

However, depending on the type of dog I'm shooting over, the 1st shot from the more open barrel is typically a 1 1/8 oz of nickel-plated #6's with the above load in the 2nd (tighter) barrel. If hunting over a flushing dog or if late in the year I will go with 1 1/4 oz of #6's for the 1st shot and 1 3/8oz of nickel-plated #4's in the tighter barrel.

Chokes over pointing dogs and early in the season are typically 10/1000 and 25/1000 (IC and IM) and later it's 20/1000 and 30/1000 or Mod/LtFull.

When I was shooting a 12 bore alot I mostly never used anything more than a 3 dram equivalent trap load , AA wads and AA hulls , just pour in sixes for the roosters......

My favorite all around upland load for many years was 1 1/8 oz of hard #6 shot at around 1250 fps. (Actually, I like 5s for pheasant. But the vast majority of pheasants I've shot have been with 6s.) Very shootable, good patterns. Can't be beat in my opinion.

In the last 5 yrs I've gone to non-toxic shot for everything. In factory loads, I liked the 1 1/8 oz, 1250 fps load in Kent's Tungsten Matrix when it was available. They still make a GameBore load that uses 1 1/16 oz of Tungsten shot that is a likely substitute-- but in a recent catalog I saw it priced at about $75/25 rds. Ouch. When my tungsten matrix stash runs out, I'll likely go to Bismuth 1 1/4 oz of 5s at around 1300 if I can't find the Kent's anymore at a reasonable price.

Dutch,

I'm nearly 60, and I cut my teeth on chucker here in Nevada when I was 8. I just looked at your site. You have it dialed in, my friend!! Chucker Hunting = Vendetta... Good dogs are essential, IMO. 1 1/4 oz of 6s is just right for an all around load, I believe. I use a lot of 1 1/8 #6 Remington Shur-Shot loads for most of my hunting, however.

Well, if you are going to move 6,000 miles, you might as well go to a good spot, right?

We do try to have a good time, and good dogs are an important part of that. This is the place to enjoy all that, for sure.

Just wish my bird hunting wouldn't interfere with my elk hunting so much! LOL! Dutch.

For 12ga go #6 hevishot (or other premium shot (bismuth, tungston).
No comment on 20ga.

For a number of reasons, mostly that the once a year guys I hunt the opener with, I use a 1 1/8 ozs of 5s in the IC tube and 1 3/8 oz nickel 4s in the mod tube, with the likly result of killing the roosters at 55+ yards with my top barrel, (once the other guys stop shooting).
I need nothing but the 5s when hunting the plumb patches by myself after the season opens and will even use them on doves at water hole ranges. (even 71/2s have too many pellets in the pattern, with the number of doves shot in a few hours), a few fly-through-the-pattern birds are no big deal. Rabbits, grouse and ptarmigen all fall to 11/8 oz 5s. 'Use to kill mallards with lead 5s in the good old days. Winchester AA components including WSF powder, when it is gone I will need to find a substitute.

For pheasant, I've always used handloaded 3 dram equiv. 1-1/8 oz. of copper-plated #6'a in my Browning Superposed 12 gauge or handloaded 7/8ths of an ounce of hard lead #7's (that's right... "7's", NOT 7�'s) handloads or 1 ounce factory loaded shells (#6's) in the Charles Daly 28 gauge over/under and factory-loaded 3-inch, 3/4 oz. load of 6's in my Winchester Model 42.


I'd use #7 shot in the .410 for pheasants, but I don't handload for the .410 like I do for both the 12 gauge and 28 gauge.

For grouse, quail and chuckars, I use handloaded 1-1/8th. of 7's in the 12 gauge and the same handloaded 7/8ths of an ounce of 7's as above in the 28 gauge or the factory-loaded 3-inch, 3/4 oz. load of 7�'s in my .410 bore Winchester Model 42.


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

Back when I was doing a lot of shotgunning, my favorite loading was for the 12 gauge, 1-1/4 oz. of #6's at about 1,220 fps. I had access to thousands of acres of timberlands and rough woods, swamps, and fields, so in a days walk I would come across anything from ducks to rabbits to quail to woodcock. That load would bring them all down no problem. Except for the occasional woodcock. I could't manage to hit the darn things, it wasn't the load! Most of that land is housing subdivisions, landfills, commercial industrial property and such now, all gone. Can't turn back time though.
Still got a few bags of wads out in the shed next to the loader, which is under a dust cover. Don't remember what I was loading, but apparenly it involved AA12F114 wads and Federal 209's, as that is what is near the ol' Mec.

Many good and interesting replies here. Thanks for sharing your experiences.

I grew up in Florida during my teen-years, and frequently 1 1/8 ounces in a 12 Gagg were a bit heavy on doves and quail, where 1-ounce of 8's in 20 or 12 gauge would have been plenty.

Most times nowadays I don't have need for anything over a #5, or 1 1/4 ounces, but it is advantageous as a reloader to build heavier magnum loads when needed - too!

One question however - for many of you. When you say you use "seven's," is that short-hand f0or 7 1/2's? Or are you actually using size 7's?

Both shot-sizes exist and are both easy enough to find. I haven't shot many "7's," but have had situations where a shot-size bigger than 7 1/2 but smaller than a #6 would have been pefect.

Other replies?

For doves, quail, pigeons, crows, and grouse, I like a 1 1/8 ounce 3 dram Trap load. Rem Nitro 27 or Win Super Handicap in 7.5s are impessive on birds in that size range. I dont really see the point of beating yourself with a 1 1/4 ounce load in a dove field when its not going to buy you more or quicker kills. Magnum shot is a big advantage over standard chilled shot, thus target grade ammo is a better bet for hunting than the cheap stuff. In my 20 gauge I recently came to love the new Win Super Sport load, 7/8 ounce of 7.5s at 1300 FPS...equally impressive on birds as well as clays. I only load 2 shot sizes these days, 7.5 and 5s; these 2 sizes cover all of my clays and hunting needs. I will say that if chuckar, pheasant, rabbits, or squirrels is being hunted, I prefer 5s or 6's with plated shot in a 1 ounce load doing around 1200 in my 20.

For upland 12g -

Doves - Remington dove loads 8's early season and 7's later
Doves - Winchester AA - Super Sporting Clay 8's - fast 1330

Pheasant / Chukar - on a no wind day - Remington 6's game loads
Pheasant / Chukar - on a windy day - Winchester 5's game loads

Grouse - any day - Remington 6's

Quail - 8 or 9's whatever I have around from Trap

Upland - 20g (my kids Dove Season)
Dove - Remington bulk 20g dove loads (they are still working on the ratio of shots per bird!)

Great post, Kimberman. If I was going to limit myself to just-two sizes of shot, I could easily see myself doing what you're doing. Also I totally agree about using quality magnum [hard] shot in all shooting applications.

Just go out and get some winchester super X Hi-vel.

7 1/2 shot 3 and 3/4 drams equiv. ..

FAST kills just about everyhing including turkeys if you shoot for the head.

Spot

Interesting you should say that, Sharpshooter. (I like splitting hairs by reloading, however! )

Many, many, maaaanny yeeears ago I read an article by Bob Brister or Don Zutz on what might be the single best, do-everything-shotgun load for everything in the USA, certainly in CONUS.

The author said he'd choose a load of 7 1/2's, even for turkeys and geese - if it was ever necessary to ..... Head and neck shots was partly how he justified his choice.

I would take 1 3/8 ounce of nickel plated 5's if I could only have one load I could do just fine on all upland game birds and have with 5's they wouldn't be ideal for woodcocks and grouse but I have shot botht these birds with this load. Fiocchi makes a good one.

I believe Peter Capstick made this recommendation many years ago in one of his articles. I believe this article can be found on my bookshelf somewhere but haven't the time to look it up right now. Jim

The most balanced load for 12 Ga. is what is commonly referred to as a Pigeon Load it is 3 1/4 drams 1 1/4 oz. 7.5 shot 1220 fps . It is the one used in Europe and the U.S. for live pigeon shooting both box and hand thrown birds where side bets can be over 50,000 dls. Shells can be expensive but it is one of the lowest components on a hunting trip after gas and lodging . Get the best it can be a little light for wild Pheasants then go up to Fiocchi Nickel Plated 1 3/8 oz. of # 5 's

Winchester used to make this load with hard, copper-plated #6 shot, which was a marvelous load. It didn't kick much even in a relatively light double, and patterned so beautifully that it worked on about anything from doves to turkeys.

Of course nowadays the trend is to VELOCITY in shotshell loads, which killed this load. It is pretty easy to duplicate in a handload, however.

JB

MuleDeer, do you think there's much difference between nickel versus copper-plated shot? Which one should be preferred over the other? (regardless of cost).

I've heard of the classic 1 1/4oz - 1220fps 'pigeon load', and at different times have seen Remington and Federal offer it, but usually with 7 1/2's.

When killing birds, especially pheasants, grouse and waterfowl,

the single most important factor (IMO) I've noticed in an effective shotshell

is consistent [minimum] multiple-hits!

- usually due to a balanced well-choked load more than "velocity" or extra-large pellets.

Nickle plated shot is harder than copper plated shot so in theory it should pattern better.

Actually, either copper or nickle-pleated shot needs to be made of high-antimony lead alloy in the first place, otherwise the plating does no real good. The plating is very thin, so doesn't do an awful lot for the overall hardness of the shot. In fact, it is mostly there to "lube" the shot and make it flow better through the forcing cone and choke.

I learned some of this the hard way when I bought a box of highly-recommended ammo loaded with nickel-plated 5's on a pheasant hunt some years ago. It didn't seem to kill nearly as well as some of the Winchester #6 pigeon loads I'd been using, and I found out why when we processed the dead birds. The nickel-plated shot deformed easily, and so didn't penetrate nearly as well as the HARD copper-plated shot in the Winchester loads.

In fact, hard uncoated shot is better than a lot of the cheap plated shot you'll find.

JB

I tend to match shot size with choke. Pattern density is a function of both. 1 1/4 ounces of #9 shot through a full choke won't leave much of the quail for eating. Though it will be tenderized. That same load from a skeet or IC choke will make you look like the best wing shot in the county.

I use 1 1/8 oz loads of 7's in Remington hulls and 1250 velocity for the 12 ga. I'd load 7/8 oz of 7's for the 20 ga.

I used to shoot 7 1/2's and 6's all the time. The 7's work great on everything including pheseants. I normally shoot IC and occasionaly Modified choke.

7 1/2 shot winchester super-x. vel is 1450

remember if you shooting at ruffed grouse in the North east the shot needs to reach them before you pull the trigger. you've got about .8 to 2.1 seconds to nail them before they fly through a tree.

That's how I got my login - spot shooter!

When I lived in Florida and hunted doves, some shooters sought out the 1 1/4oz #9 loads! The range they could kill doves was often extreme.

For my first 15 years of bird hunting, I used my Model 42 Winchester (bored "modified") in the early days when it was my only shotgun. I used 3" factory-loaded shells with #6's for pheasant & rabbits... and #7�'s for everything else.

For the majority of my 60+ years of bird-hunting, I mostly used my own 12 gauge reloads in a Belguim-made Browning Superpose (bored improved cylinder & modified)... a trap/skeet load consisting of 1-1/8th ounce, 3-dram equivalent of Red Dot powder together with #6's for pheasants (copper-plated #6's in Nebraska on annual pheasant hunts) or the same shot weight/dram equivalent of #7 (yes "7's", not 7�'s) for grouse, chukars and partridge. For quail, I used 1-1/8th ounce & a 3 dram equivalent of either 7�'s or 8's in a 12 gauge. The 3 dram equivalent of powder probably yielded a muzzle velocity about 1250 fps (I never chronographed it).

I occasionally used my 28 gauge reloads in my Charles Daly over/under 28 gauge skeet gun (bored "skeet & skeet") with Herco powder and a variety of shot-weights... 3/4 oz skeet reloads... or factory loads of 7/8's or 1 ounce of shot... #6's for pheasants and usually #7� for chukars & partridge... and #8's for quail.

I never hunted the 28 gauge skeet gun without a good dog due to the very limited range (20 to 25 yards at most) of the skeet chokes.

The advantage we reloaders have is that we can choose any combination of shot size, shot weight and powder choice plus the amount of powder used to give us the most effective shotshell load possible for the game hunted and the expected type of cover.

I've always preferred AA hulls, but there's a lot of good hulls these days. For the 12 gauge, I'd recommend the 1-1/8th ounce load which I've always found gave excellent patterns. Since I never owned a 20 gauge gun, I can't suggest a load for it.


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.