The Russians were defending on home turf which is a huge advantage and so were the Germans mostly during the war in Europe. Hathcock was in unfamiliar territory hunting for days at a time without coming in. His feats are legendary.His tools were not near as good as we enjoy today. Mawhinney is in the same category.
They all command our respect for the sacrifices they made. I'm not sure one can put one of them above the rest as they all hold their place in time each beating the odds in service to their country. That said Hathcock endured some very unique circumstances to pull off some hair raising feats against all odds.
As some have said, these people are all to be admired for their skill, whatever the circumstances. Too often any discussion of the "best" of anything seems to bring about a need to "win" for a person's choice.
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)
Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
I served with Hathcock’s son in the Marine Corps. Hathcock III
Must of been in the genetics. After a career, I still don’t know anyone who could shoot better.
"...aspire to live quietly, and to mind your own affairs, and to work with your hands, as we instructed you, so that you may walk properly before outsiders and be dependent on no one." - Paul to the church in Thessalonica.
As some have said, these people are all to be admired for their skill, whatever the circumstances. Too often any discussion of the "best" of anything seems to bring about a need to "win" for a person's choice.
5sdad; Top of the morning to you sir, I trust all is well with you and yours this windy February Sunday.
I'm adding what I believe to be a factual and well done 6 minute video on this chap who amassed the greatest number of confirmed kills for a Canadian in any war. Some sources say it may be almost double the number given in the video as he did a whole bunch of his work solo and thus couldn't get the confirmations required.
As an additional bit of character for this man, I'll note that after the war he didn't slide into self medication of any kind, but was active in both Native politics as well as the local militia. All in all an admirable man and fierce fighter by any measure I'd say.
Anyway it's more than 100 years ago now, but to this day we reap the benefits of the actions of brave men who stood in the breach on behalf of freedom.
All the best to you all as we hopefully head into spring soon.
We have the toughest standards when it come to counting kills. Each of the above probably killed three times their official numbers.
The big name Russian and German snipers we hear about likely had inflated kill numbers for propaganda purposes, and even if they didn't, they were in very target rich environments.
Carlos did his work in a very difficult environment, and lived to tell about the most difficult missions accomplished by any sniper. This is what sets him apart from other who just have high kill counts.
I doubt Fat Russian Chick would of come back alive from the mission to kill the VC General.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
IMO It is impossible to figure out the best. Some people were working in target rich environments, confirmed kills were recorded differently, different equipment and so on.
and there are sniper kills accomplished on highly sensitive clandestine missions that will likely never be revealed to the public.
so when the public talk about the' longest sniper kill in history' for example, the actual record may well belong to a person the public will never get to know or identify or that such an op. even took place.
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Carlos...This is what sets him apart from other who just have high kill counts.
Whenever Sniper discussions come up on gun forums people often like to quote an operatives kill count, but rarely do they mention kill ratio.
Does any fanboy of Hollywood spectacle Chris Kyle know his KR..?...and Carlos, what was his KR..?
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
There are too many great ones to choose just one. Many other countries have had good ones. And a lot of wars like the Revolution and the Civil War don't have very good records. Carlos Hathcock stands out because of his fieldcraft. He was a great shot too, winning at Camp Perry.
Francis Pegahmagabow MM & two bars (/ˌpɛɡəməˈɡæboʊ/; March 9, 1891 – August 5, 1952) was the First Nations soldier most highly decorated for bravery in Canadian military history and the most effective sniper of World War I. Three times awarded the Military Medal and seriously wounded, he was an expert marksman and scout, credited with killing 378 Germans and capturing 300 more.[2] Later in life, he served as chief and a councilor for the Wasauksing First Nation, and as an activist and leader in several First Nations organizations. He corresponded with and met other noted aboriginal figures including Fred Loft, Jules Sioui, Andrew Paull and John Tootoosis.
Not to dismiss any of the work that Hathcock, or any of the more "modern day" snipers have done, but they pretty much pale in comparison to what the German and Russian snipers did in WW2, and the conditions under which they had to fight. Same way with the Finn, Simo Hayha, who just might have been the best of the lot.
How is that?
As Americans, we like to think that "our" side is always the best at whatever we're discussing. If you take it by the numbers, no one comes to close to the kills made by the WW2 Soviet snipers, and the Finn. Although war is Hell no matter where it's fought, WW2 was fought under much harsher conditions that most wars, and the equipment used was much inferior to modern day weapons.
I'm not taking anything away from any American sniper, they did very good work, and deserve a lot of credit. But, my vote goes to other soldiers who did even greater work.
Not sure I agree actually.
The Soviets were in a extremely target rich environment. Same as the Murderous Finn. He had the advantage of Russians being led ineptly, poorly equipped, hungry and cold.
Makes for good shooting.
I guess its maybe a quality vs quantity thing.
From what I have heard, these modern sand box fights were pretty [bleep] hairy too! It would sure be difficult to pick a "toughest" war.
One reason the Russian snipers had such high body counts is that many times they were fighting from the bombed out ruins of cities,...like Stalingrad. The piles of rubble made it a sniper's paradise.
IMO It is impossible to figure out the best. Some people were working in target rich environments, confirmed kills were recorded differently, different equipment and so on.
and there are sniper kills accomplished on highly sensitive clandestine missions that will likely never be revealed to the public.
so when the public talk about the' longest sniper kill in history' for example, the actual record may well belong to a person the public will never get to know or identify or that such an op. even took place.
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Carlos...This is what sets him apart from other who just have high kill counts.
Whenever Sniper discussions come up on gun forums people often like to quote an operatives kill count, but rarely do they mention kill ratio.
Does any fanboy of Hollywood spectacle Chris Kyle know his KR..?...and Carlos, what was his KR..?
KRs!!!!LMFAO old starfish be an operator, I wonder why he refuses to talk about his service and experience?
He would probably have to kill us, or he signed a NDA.
mike r
Don't wish it were easier Wish you were better
Stab them in the taint, you can't put a tourniquet on that. Craig Douglas ECQC
IMO It is impossible to figure out the best. Some people were working in target rich environments, confirmed kills were recorded differently, different equipment and so on.
and there are sniper kills accomplished on highly sensitive clandestine missions that will likely never be revealed to the public.
so when the public talk about the' longest sniper kill in history' for example, the actual record may well belong to a person the public will never get to know or identify or that such an op. even took place.
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Carlos...This is what sets him apart from other who just have high kill counts.
Whenever Sniper discussions come up on gun forums people often like to quote an operatives kill count, but rarely do they mention kill ratio.
Does any fanboy of Hollywood spectacle Chris Kyle know his KR..?...and Carlos, what was his KR..?
No, DO you? But again you are focusing on only one aspect of sniping and not the craft as a whole.
