Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors Savage Loose Lever Fix

I remember seeing a thread on how to fix a loose lever on a model 99 by closing the Arc. Is there any special consideration I have to take? Should I be supporting any other metal on the lever as will it bend. Where is the best place to hit with the mallet to close the Arc. Would anyone have a link to the original thread , I was unable to find it.

Great Thank you

Is headspace affected?

If I recollect there seems to be some controversy on how this effects head space, or something like that. It seems to me that an effective way to solve the problem would be to add some weld to the end of the lever and then refit it to the stub it bottoms out against when the lever is closed. The 99 action looks like it relies on the friction fit of the lever at that location and at the rear of the bolt when in battery to hold it all in place.

Not sure to be honest I have not shot the rifle yet , my father has it fully dis assembled.

How would it effect headspace? That is purely a function of the the length of the bolt from where it butts solidly against the receiver to its face. Jockeying the lever arc only effects how well the bolt fits in its space (and curing droop). If the bolt was too short before, it'll still be too short after the lever is tweaked. If anything it'll effect the angle of the bolt face in relation to the cartridge head, but that would be a very tiny angle.

All I know is the lever controls how high and forward the breech bolt goes, which would affect headspace.

the wear that occurs on the parts i,e, lever, bolt, and receiver will affect the headspacing on the 99 and the lever is the weakest link IMO the boss on the lever is the area that usually is the culprit. tightening the lever fit(arc) doesn't have much effect on headspacing but does make for a better lock-up.

plab

ditto

plab

The whole point in restoring the proper arc in the lever is so it will cam the bolt into its fully closed and locked position. Properly adjusted, it restores proper head space.

That makes sense to me.

And Roy has probably logged more time in working 99s than the average bear.

But it seems to me that head space has everything to do with the length of the bolt in the slot of the receiver between the barrel breech and back wall and the lever has everything to do with how the bolt goes in and out of that slot, or battery. Has anyone ever did before and after headspace measurements on a 99 where the the arch of the lever had been tightened up with the mallet method?

Yes, but if the lever pushes the bolt too far forward and it then doesn't bear firmly against the rear at the receiver, you'll get a false headspace reading. Upon discharge the bolt will be pushed back hard against the receiver to where it wants to be, and I'll bet it'll undo all the good work you've done in tweaking the bolt in fairly short order too. Not to mention giving you stretched cases (but you would have been getting them anyway since there would have been a headspace issue from the start).

Presupposing that headspace was good from the git-go, tweaking the lever arc to cure some lever droop won't effect headspace one way or another, IMO.

The opening that the bolt fits into is angled at the back so the further the bolt goes up the further forward the bolt goes. It is possible to go too high and actually pull the bolt off of the bearing surface at the back. I've experienced that when swapping parts around and experimenting with fit. Like Lightfoot says, there's a happy spot that is fully closed and in battery, no more and no less.

I still need to study that relationship some more.

Ditto

I'm shaky on this, so you guys check me, but does lever droop have to do with bearing on one side of the lever, while the breechbolt bears on the other side?

Rather than ask, I should be out there trying to see up inside the lever/bolt interface. It's hidden up in there.

this will be a long post ,
closing the arc on the lever will bring it to bear in the bottom of the receiver where it is machined at an angle( a boss) or "locking surface" that the lever bears on. thus
tightening the lever or lever drop as we all refer to. now think about this .closing the arc just brought that downward to the receiver, therefore it no longer pushes the bolt as high as when the arc was open. OK so what really happens to the 99 over time ? does the arc on the lever open up ? does the tip "bearing surface" of the lever wear ? what about the boss milled into bottom of the receiver? or the one on the lever? the slot in the bolt ? . I say all these surfaces wear over time. thus headspacing can and will be lost over time . now closing that arc really does nothing more than bringing that milled boss on the lever downward therefore the bolt no longer gets pushed as far upward. a loose lever will push the bolt higher. but it makes for a soft springy lockup in the 99. headspacing for the most part is quite forgiving but some rifles wear enough to end up with problems.

Take the leaver off, I used a large leather mallet, and give it a Whack! theres been a fellow on here that did that and it did break the leaver, but hes bigger than the average fellow is! its a trial and error Process!

So I’m trying to keep up here. Roy, are you saying the bolt moves up into a wedge and not square shaped recepticel? And Plab are you saying that tightening the arch of the lever will only result in lowering the height of travel the bolt can make?

I'll not comment anymore until I get home late tonight and study on my bare action a bit. I suspect everybody is right in their own way.

We're just talking it thru, and I'm with you, I need to study this more. This is how it gets done guys. Thank you for the civility.

Check out my question

that's correct but it's very slight. a 99 shoots better with a tight lever. because your taking some of the movement out that the lever allows the bolt to move. who knows how it gets to the loose lever ? wear and tear I would assume . and yes the rear of the bolt and the mating surface are angled .. I think I read somewhere it was 6 degrees but I'm not sure .

plab

Ok, so now you have the knowledge to tighten your lever drop. Do it and see where you are at. Likely you're done and happy.

Take the rest of the comments with a grain of salt.
As gnoahhh states, others may all be correct to some degree, but may not have anything to do with your rifle.

Anyhoo,... a picture is worth a thousand words. Here's the parts involved.

Interesting and thanks. So another consequence of tightening the lever arch is a slightly loosened lock-up. Personally, I think some 99s just got out of the factory that way. My fix would be to add some metal to the friction end of the lever arch and refit it. But I’m not a welder and don’t know if the heat could be controlled that good. Or I guess you also could play around with other levers until you got one that gave you good lock up.

I read where Colburn nixed the 3006 because the 4 degree pitch on the rear would not contain the pressures. I think I read that .
I

Wow lots of info thank you successfully tightened one and one more to go both are 308’s I will be hitting the range this weekend to see how they shoot.

HI Everyone
I am new to this forum.
I know this is an old thread, but found it very interesting.

I recently bought a straight grip 303 savage 1899 at auction. It had this drooping lever issue to the extreme (I did not know this before I bought it). When the trigger was pulled the lever would drop open about an inch. The firing pin tension was the only thing holding the bolt in position until it fired. Needless to say, I will not be firing it in this condition. I knew the stocks were garbage and so it is now a complete redo project. The condition of the rifle led me to this discussion.

Not counting my time I expect the total rebuild cost to be about $400 CAD or about $300 USD (obviously nothing for my time ). I know it does not sound like the best investment, but when it is done I hope to have a unique custom firearm with one of the best lever actions around. I have a fairly nice 99 in 300 savage so this was meant to be a project. I will admit it will be a bigger one than originally anticipated.

I have ordered a new lever from Numrich (Gun Parts).

I will be re-barreling it to 30-30 win (original barrel is a sewer pipe) using a Green mountain 7.62x51 (1:11.25 twist) barrel. I am toying with making the barrel an octagon about 20".

I have ordered a stock blank from Gunstocks INC. (who are closing down) and will whittle up a new forend.

However returning to the lever issue I would like to recap what has been written above based on my studying the lever issue. I am not trying to say anyone is wrong (because this would not be true). I am just collating it and hope to get confirmation from those more familiar or possibly introduce a point not fully covered.

The 3 critical points on the lever in my opinion are the following

1/ The lever pivot pin. If this is excessively loose it may affect the performance of the next two points. but is likely less critical to function than #2 or #3.
A loose pivot pin will allow the lever to move forward reducing the contact tension with the locking surface (which I will call the frame lug). The lever is held in tension or lockup with the tension between the frame lug and the pivot pin. When the hammer method of tightening the "C" is used it may just be correcting for some of this play in the lever pin as well as wear on the lever end and frame lug.

2/ The end of the lever which contacts the frame lug. In some cases can be corrected by closing the C. If the wear on either the lever locking surface, or a loose pin, or wear on the frame lug, is minimal. If there is minimal wear on the surfaces mentioned then percussive adjustment as mentioned will "likely" not affect my point #3.

3/ The cam follower and race. The cam follower (non rotating) is the round locking protrusion on the left side of the lever about 1" from the end of the lever. This protrusion/cam follower engages the angled cam race in the bolt. The race in the bolt is angled to allow the follower to drop the bolt and guide it backward through the lever stroke. At the last moment of closing, the follower will locate on the forward point of the cam race, which is a small horizontal flat. When the lever is closed, the left side follower will locate on the flat area and hold a small amount of tension upward against the flat which is caused by the frame lug/lever interaction.
Looking at it in another way, the force of the closed bolt against the receiver, is transmitted down through cam race flat to the lever, and this forces against the frame lug to lock the bolt in the closed position. It is a delicate balance. Too tight and bolt will be hard to lock but harder to unlock once the fired case is pushing back against the bolt. If the lock up is perfect the lever will close and lock the lever in place on the frame lug and the cam will hold the bolt in the full upward position with a little bit of tension. When fired the bolt will be pushed back against the frame. The angle at the back of the bolt will start to apply pressure downward. At this time it is imperative that the cam follower nub is resting against the flat at the bottom of the race or you will have the issue I have of unlocking. Proper interaction will position the lever to absorb the downward force and will allow only minimal (if any) movement. An excessive clearance between the cam follower and the flat portion of the race will create a variable headspace situation upon firing. As the firing pin hits the primer, the expanding case will push back and any movement will allow the case to stretch back changing the headspace.

I believe the correct interaction of these areas is vital to maintaining a safe firearm and possibly increasing accuracy. So If you tighten the C to improve lock up watch the clearance or amount of vertical movement of the bolt. You will absolutely need to be sure that the cam is still interacting with the horizontal flat area. One method to check that it still properly locked is to us a soft face mallet to tap downward on the bolt to mimic a shell firing. If there is a small vertical movement of the bolt but no unlocking you are probably safe as long as the lever remains solidly locked. Keep in mind that if you can push the bolt vertically up or down this will translate into a variable headspace situation which may affect accuracy.

Sorry for the long winded comment.
Let me know if that is the way you see it.

Two other comments. Yes welding the contact locations (cam follower and end of lever) and machining back down will likely work but you may want to re case harden after.

The other comment about 30-06 and pressure does not make sense, since the 308 works at the same pressure, it is most likely, that the action, is not long enough for this cartridge and similar ones.