Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns An interesting trend

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Wow, no. Not true at all. If the meplat percentage is the same between all of the calibers you lumped together, the larger caliber will make the bigger hole all else being equal. Also, not all cast bullets are created equally. The alloy (as well as other factors like impact velocity and what the bullet is hitting) will determine how deep and straight the bullet penetrates. Your broad brush strokes don’t hold water.

I get what Form is saying. Essentially that if the bullet has the capability to penetrate the skull of a charging bear that accuracy matters most at that point. I thought I remembered Phil Shoemaker commenting his daughter using a .357 with hardcast because it was enough gun to brain a bear and the young lady could shoot it more accurately faster than a big bore magnum. Max, would shots from a big bore magnum that missed the brain, or straight on chest shots turn a big bear from a charge?

There’s no telling as each and every animal is a law unto itself, but it might. I have found that big animals typically respond more to bigger bullets. I turned an aggressive Watusi with a shoulder shot from a .500 Maximum. Bigger is better as long as you can shoot it.

I also am sure that the increase in meplat size has little impact (excuse the pun) on the resulting hit.

For example, a 45 cal bullet (let’s say a wad cutter, just to keep this simple) has about a 60% increase in cross sectional area over a 9mm bullet.

But that doesn’t mean it is 60% more effective.

In reality, and especially on brain shots, given equal penetration, the outcome on the animal is largely the same.

Been on ignore for some time.

The increase in meplat size most assuredly increases the visual impacts. Not hard to see when observing. I have actually dropped a grizzly with a body shot that came in on us while working a moose kill. I used a 475L and the results were very impressive.

Round noses do the same as flat noses on tissue? A weekend knocking off even wee rabbits might be a good exercise on this fiction. Perhaps the history of the banned 9mm truncated cone bullet around the first big war may provide some interesting reading....

My experience is that non expanding round noses have a tendency to create much smaller holes in hide, muscle, lungs, heart, whatever, unless a substantial shoulder is employed, which very few have.

They also tend to penetrate less and veer, but round shapes do feed better in autos, generally.

I doubt Phil is packing roundnoses in his handguns (his daughters 357 bear was with a flatnose jacketed bullet) and I'd suspect his 10mm rounds aren't loaded with round hardball, even though they apparently are/do the same thing...

All that being said, larger frontal areas (even roundish shaped ones) don't always coincide with feeding in autos, even the apparent magical Glock. Even if its the very best prepared ammo on the planet, it would be wise to make sure what you choose works.

Hitting is obviously paramount and recoil is not a natural thing to get used to, just like moving parts coming back at your face with brass popping all around, both take some practice and loading any of your choices with junk bullets to the gills or beyond what you can shoot well should make some sense.

Will a 45 through the brain kill any deader than a 9mm through the brain?

What if you miss the brain? What bullet do you think will leave a bigger impression on the animal?

Are you now telling me youd choose a 22?

as your ass is being munched on I bet you can count to 2 between triggering shots into the dirt or air with that 25 ounce smith 44 magnum. On the other hand Glock Dufus carries a 380 with 100 grain hard cast bullets in it and claims it will shoot end to end on the largest of animals. I suck at shooting and have been looking for that magical gun all my life that would make me into Wild Bill Hickock, but sadly none have arisen. That being said, a mere human might trigger a few hard cast 9mm's into something before that something munched your ass. Naturally I am sure the hard cast 9mm would just piss it off more, but what's the diff, 6 300's into the dirt or 10 body hits with 147 grain hard cast bullets? Got to know your capabilities with a gun and not a keyboard, and I know mine are poor so I stick with what I can use.

If you read Phil Shoemakers account of the bear that charged when he only had a 9mm you will find that the bears fast movement made a head shot impossible.

Jimmy, why are you shooting into the dirt? :-)

You apparently do not know what they do in tissue if you think that the larger diameter larger meplat flat points don’t leave larger holes.

cause I would be scared sh it-less, and my shooting skills would degenerate even further!!

There is no permanent tissue damage from secondary wounding effects (temporary cavity) from projectiles impacting les then 2,000fps +/- That means the ONLY means of tissue destruction is the permanent crush cavity (what the bullet physically touches). The difference in “impact” between a 9mm and a 44 mag is extremely minimal. The guy that started the soft body armor trend used to point blank shoot heavy loads from a 44mag into his chest while standing on one foot. The “impression” is anticlimactic.


You have a “feeling”. Feelings are not reality. If you miss the brain or upper CNS, ANY creature can continue doing what it wands until/unless it losses consciousness due to blood loss.







No, not impossible. Maybe not doable for his skill level, but while Phil may very well be one of the best bear guides alive, I highly suspect that he is not representative of what someone can do with a pistol on moving targets under stress.











I didn’t say that a larger bullet won’t leave a larger hole. I said the difference is extremely small, especially when using hard cast bullets.
How many necropsies have you performed or been witness to when using 9mm, 10mm, 45, and 44 hard casts? I have killed with each, have been apart of necropsies in tissue with all, and been apart of terminal ballistics testing with all. No one can tell what bullet produced what wound.





The cognitive disconnect is striking. Bears are shot all the time with 375 H&H’s, 458WM’s, 500 NE mags, etc. and not only do not get “stopped”, but they keep going. A freaking handgun- ANY HANDGUN- is a joke comparatively. If a Nitro Express can’t “stop” a bear on demand with a body shot, your 475 Linebaugh revolver sure as heck won’t either.


This is the Taurus Judge nonsense all over- a 410 shotgun= puny. A 410 in a revolver= hammer of Thor!

I agree with the taurus judge sucks part but that 2000fps nonsense is absolutely false. Its not only hypothetically false but absolutely proven. Biggest load of BS ive heard in the firearms hunting world!

Sweet baby jesus I know I shouldn’t..... but


Ok. Who has proven it false?

Thats is literally the funniest thing I have read since I don't know when *dying

Oh GD, another thread that's given my poor weak mind another headache, that said, were I in bear country, my stainless Dan Wesson 10mm would strapped to me loaded to the gills with 200gr hardcasts at 1200+ fps, the bullets would be sporting as good big flat meplat, three spare 10 round Tripp mags would be in a back pocket, guess I'm betting my life they'd, at the very least, turn a bear and get it to leave me the hell alone.