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#13655110 - 03/14/19 Re: Any one still reloading shotgun ammo??? [Re: battue]  
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Redneck Offline
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WI.
I tried a few 7/8 oz loads and didn't like 'em.. Went back to 1 oz and kept speed to 1150-1160. Better patterns in my shotguns and smoked 'em if I did my part..


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#13655473 - 03/14/19 Re: Any one still reloading shotgun ammo??? [Re: WyoCoyoteHunter]  
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woodmaster81 Online content
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Battle is correct on shot charges- more is more all else considered. An ounce and an eighth of shot at 90% will put more pellets in the circle than a one ounce 100% pattern. An 80% pattern will have more pellets than a 7/8 oz load will hold. This can readily be seen on the patterning board though one may have to actually count each hole rather than just look.

That said, I load 7/8 oz of 8s as my primary target load. That charge weight I find adequate for the majority of my shooting. Those targets that don't break are seldom the fault of my equipment. I can live with the occasional escaped clay.

This is also the most economical when reloading. Though it is only a half a dollar cheaper than the least expensive 12 ga loads at today's component prices it is half that of comparable factory loads- when one can find them. Depending on the number of rounds shot per year, the savings can be considerable.

The recoil is also very mild in a 9.5-10# gun. That reduces the possibility of some shooting related injuries which was a concern when I was competing and firing 15,000 rounds a year.

There are compelling reasons for and against to use the various charge weights and one needs to weight the arguements for themselves. There is no perfect choice and that choice could easily change given the circumstance.

#13655553 - 03/14/19 Re: Any one still reloading shotgun ammo??? [Re: WyoCoyoteHunter]  
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I only reload Buckshot and the occasional slug. I had a PW progressive at one time, but just couldn't justify the time for the little bit I was saving (and I didn't shoot a ton of shells).

#13655984 - 03/14/19 Re: Any one still reloading shotgun ammo??? [Re: woodmaster81]  
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battue Offline
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Agree, if I was using 7/8 it would primarily be 8’s. And perhaps even 9’s for targets around 20yards and under.

Addition: Point well and they all most often work. However, with edge on targets and some distance, more is always better.

Last edited by battue; 03/14/19.

laissez les bons temps rouler
#13657067 - 03/15/19 Re: Any one still reloading shotgun ammo??? [Re: WyoCoyoteHunter]  
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I’ve shot well over 50,000 rounds of 7/8 oz, #7 1/2 (magnum shot, STS brand when I can get it). Through the fixed M/IM chokes in my Perazzi MX8 they pattern beautifully. I load them to about 1275 fps, that fast only to keep pressure up fora good burn of Clays powder.

Speed is not important to a shotgun load; that’s why the gold standard is around 1200 with 1 1/8 oz loads - trap shooters figured this out decades ago. However, with lighter loads and magnum shot, the shot deformation issues from setback upon firing must be significantly less than with heavier loads as the patterns are terrific.

I will not say that these loads are better than heavier loads, as I agree with Bruce Buck and others who have noted that “more is more” wrt shot charges, and that every 1 1/8 oz load has a 7/8 and 1 oz load riding on the top of the shot column. That said, the difference is very small and the reduction in fatigue is real. Cost savings is a bonus.

Last edited by GF1; 03/15/19.
Alpha

#13668233 - 03/18/19 Re: Any one still reloading shotgun ammo??? [Re: WyoCoyoteHunter]  
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First post here. I use to load 30 to 40 boxes a week when the wife, daughter, and granddaughter shot with me three times a week at the club [ only 3 miles away]. We order from Dawsons in Ohio when they're delivering birds to another club close by so we don't pay sales tax or delivery charges. I can reload 12ga 3/4oz for about 3.50/box. International skeet or trap is shot with a hair under 7/8oz and the birds are harder and going faster. If they can shoot it with 7/8, then it's more than enough. JMHO, but that " more is more " isn't what it's cracked up to be.. They made FITASC shooters go from 1 1/4oz to 1oz and their scores improved. Less fatigue. That recoil adds up in a long day of shooting. And the shorter shot column means less deformation of the bottom shot so a larger % of the shot stays in the pattern. Yes you start with less shot, but I the center of the pattern doesn't have any holes in it with the lighter loads, just the outside of it. I like the 3/4oz loads because of recoil [ and price ] with the old SxSs I shoot. I also reload hunting , BP, 10ga,20, and 28. I can shot 1oz 10ga in a 2 7/8" shell for claybirds. Lots of fun and the 1oz 10ga loads just smash those clays. After one reloads for a while you accumulate enough stuff that you don't have to look for sales, or special loads. I believe you can make better loads at cheaper prices. And it's fun.

#13675669 - 03/21/19 Re: Any one still reloading shotgun ammo??? [Re: bladesmith1]  
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battue Offline
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The targets in international are constructed harder to reduce breakage off the arm because of the higher speed they are thrown. However, the increased speed means the targets will break easier due to the increased centrifugal force. I.E. the target is spinning faster. Therefore, it takes less energy for a single pellet to break a target. The international shooters also point with precision that most of us lack. The result being they center their birds with the shot irregardless of the amount of shot they are using.

Again with regards to Fitasc. The top guns scores stayed the same or better for the same reasons. You and I, but I most definitely, could benefit from having some "outside" pattern. Reason being we don't point with the same degree of accuracy of those who win on the world stage.

I was there when Wendel Cherry made the comment. “The only reason I don't use 1 1/8oz in Fitasc is because they won't let me.”

Those looking for less recoil may use reduced loads. However, those looking to break the most don't. Especially when they know the other top guns are not.

Last edited by battue; 03/21/19.

laissez les bons temps rouler
#13679713 - 03/22/19 Re: Any one still reloading shotgun ammo??? [Re: WyoCoyoteHunter]  
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300Savage Offline
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I HANDLOAD ALL MY SKEET LOADS. i LIKE 7/8 OZ OF 8 1/2 AT 1165 FT/SEC. SOFT ON THE SHOULDER AND SMOKES TARGETS. i CAN'T FIND ANYTHING THAT SHOOTS THAT WELL AND THAT SOFT. PLUS I JUST LIKE TO RELOAD MY OWN.

#13680584 - 03/22/19 Re: Any one still reloading shotgun ammo??? [Re: WyoCoyoteHunter]  
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woodmaster81 Online content
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"More is more" still reigns supreme in regards to patterns. As I pointed out earlier, an 80% pattern with a 1 1/8 oz payload will put more actual pellets in a pattern than a 7/8 oz can with a 100% pattern. And just how many of those mythical 100% patterns has one seen? What really matters is actual pellets in the pattern, not percentages. Of those extra pellets not in the core, many will be close by filling in the gaps and thereby enlargening the size of the core. This allows one a little larger center.

As for higher scores resulting from lighter shot charges, that is a bit more than just less fatigue from recoil. In Iternational Trap, scores dropped but than climbed due more to the realization greater mental focus and concentration was needed. This is when mental conditioning and training techniques were developed to a greater extent than in the past. The proof is looking back and seeing some otherwise great shooters struggling to regain their former prominence while others continued climbing higher.

I do agree that there is a point of diminishing return in regards to shot weight and recoil but the heavier shot charge will always have an advantage in total numbers. The individual able to use those numbers will always have an advantage.

#13683143 - 03/23/19 Re: Any one still reloading shotgun ammo??? [Re: WyoCoyoteHunter]  
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RayF Offline
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I've had a MEC 600 jr for almost 10 years. Loaded skeet rds when I first got it and then it sat until last year, when my (then) 8 year old boy was turned on to Aguilla 1-7/8" minis.

I started back into reloading shot shells to give him a 12ga buckshot load he can shoot out of a 590A1 without buying half a shot shell for double the price. I started with just reducing the number of #1B pellets to just under 3/4oz and using Red Dot data for a 3/4oz skeet load. Pressure is so low, so its not a concern in replacing pellet size in a published skeet load. I haven't chrono'd it yet, but I'm guessing 1100fps and recoil is super light. Both he and my wife shoulder it with ease. Kicks like a .30 Carbine and I consider it perfect for HD in suburbia.

Those 1-7/8" minis still haunted me though and I had to give them a try. I used the same load as above, but with a modified wad. I removed the legs from between the gas check portion of the 1-piece wad and the cup portion so the cup sits directly on the gas check. My first attempts at the minis were using folded crimps and had some hiccups when made with the MEC, so I moved on to roll crimping for those. I prefer the look and pressure of fold crimping, but unless I modify the cam crimp assembly (i.e. cut the lower half off) on my press, fold crimping is problematic (at best). The roll crimp is much easier, but the pressure is much lower, so a different powder and load data has to be used and I can't reuse the hulls.

Still working on it.

Last edited by RayF; 03/24/19.
Bravo

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