Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles ANNOUNCING THE NOSLER E-TIP!!!!!!

jw, if you want to call people a liar on the board, go for it, I happen to believe it is true, and really give a flip what you believe.

Liar? now that is pretty strong words, your words by the way.So you acctualy think that every statement is fact?Can't someone be wrong without lying? You are making a lot of strong statements and I would like to know what you are basing them on..
Since you act as if you know Tye so well,then why are you bashing the company that he works for.

[quote=SU35]Nosler has always shown professionalism in statements with their bullets. When they say a BC is a certain number it's because it is.

Unlike Barnes;
Who for years "claimed" inflated BC's.
Produced a flawed reloading guide.
Made brittle bullets, used flawed materials, at more than a few times.
They can't even put the right bullets in the right box, just read the recent thread here.
Not to mention that skewed video of a bullet hitting some
watered up gel.

I've tested plenty of Barnes bullets in my rifles. The TSX is a heck of an accurate bullet and I actually prefer they lose their petals. I like the grenade effect like a partition, I'm not hung up on picture perfect mushrooms. I think more internal damage is done when the NP and TSX lose their nose. But as stated I don't use them as I use turrets and want a bullet that hits at 2,000 fps minimum at distance. Between the 2 bullets and their BC's, the Nosler gives me another 100 yards. Striking velocity is also higher with a higher BC bullet and that's something the Barnes needs to have to be successful.


Dude,

1 Barnes is not the only one that has adjusted BCs over the years.
2 Flawed guide? Not that I've ever had one, but I've never had a problem developing safe loads(accurate with X bullets in some guns is another issue but TSX has solved that)
3 Never seen a failure in a Barnes YET, but have in Nosler and Sierra, and I shoot a TON of sierra in competition so I do like them
4 I guess you haven't shot much if you've never seen wrong bullets in the wrong box.. Hornady, Sierra come to mind instantly...
5 Have had impacts at distance, that was well under 2K fps. All animals quickly dead, bullet always expanded.

Nope its not a ballistic tip. And I don't come on blasting folks for choosing ballistic tips(try not to anyway) We all just have our different choice of results. I want penetration(TSX has been really impressing me with penetration on angled shots and quick deaths to boot) And I want the meat not to be damaged.
Others desire a large hole, instant bang flop or huge blood trails. Thats cool too. Just not for me at all.

If I decided to bash another bullet, I could make up a bunch of reasons like above, but they would suit my style of hunting.

I have yet to loose with a Barnes. I watched a loss with a sierra. And proof that the buck was lost was the fact he was killed 3 weeks later with the hole through both ribs and lungs.... doing just fine, but the Sierra never opened.. at 06 speeds and 125 yards or less....

Come on, having our own opinions is fine, just don't stir up lies that don't apply or apply to many other situations...

JWP-- yep they did it, mixed em up. I've seen it in Sierra too. Including a 6mm bullet in a 224 box!!

I've got a Barnes photo to post too, this weekend if I get time. Funny driving bands... But hey they all make mistakes. I may have been a rare one to see them due to rounds gone through in years of competition...

Jeff

Good points.

Personally, I could care less about the difference of the ballistic coefficient difference between these two bullets.
What I do care about, in order, are - performance on game, accuracy, cost and availability.

I'm a confirmed Barnes TSX fan. I have been for a decades. I am however, open minded enough to be willing to try new things.

Personally, I think a bit less penetration, if coupled with a significantly wider wound channel, might be a good thing.

I'm with the guys who care more about bullet performance at the low end of the velocity range - than the top end. When I was young, and shooting all manner of magnum cartridges with light bullets in an effort to get as many fps as possible - I would have cared about what a bullet did at impacts on big game in the 3200 to 3500 fps range. I no longer care about that.

Now, with a lifetime of hunting experience behind me, and a new-found preference for slower "classic" cartridges, and much lighter rifles - I want bullets that perform best at more moderate speeds.

Now, I really care about what a cartridge will do on big game when the bullet impacts the animal between 1800 and 2700 fps. If the new Nolser design is better in that velocity range, or equal to the Barnes TSX - and either cheaper, or more accurate in my rifles - I'll switch over to their product.

If anyone can build a better mouse-trap - I'm going to buy it.

Go here:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/1370699/page/0/fpart/1

Note that Barnes sent another box of ammo. Furthermore, I'm one of those that purchased Version 3 of Barnes load manual that was laced with errors on many cartridges. I've never felt Barnes had the greatest quality control. I ended up having to buy a second, correct book, because there were so many cartridges in error, I didnt want a manual laced with pasted in corrections.

You like TSX's great, but I dont feel your pain.

[quote]1 Barnes is not the only one that has adjusted BCs over the years. True, and Sierra has done so due to it's bullet being a target bullet and down range BC needed to be known.
2 Flawed guide? Not that I've ever had one, but I've never had a problem developing safe loads(accurate with X bullets in some guns is another issue but TSX has solved that) For starters take a look at pg 280 where it states the 7 Rem Mag shooting a 140 grain bullet at 3,646 fps., it goes on...
3 Never seen a failure in a Barnes YET, but have in Nosler and Sierra, and I shoot a TON of sierra in competition so I do like them Since you brought it up, I've had horrible failures with Barnes in the early 90's shooting a 708 150X for elk. One year they penciled through the next year they were so brittle they shatterd on impact. This not only happened to me but also friends hunting elk out of Anaconda, MT. Barnes investigated their claim and ended up sending them a small crate of improved bullets. They solved the problem sure, then went to the TSX. Good for them
4 I guess you haven't shot much if you've never seen wrong bullets in the wrong box.. Hornady, Sierra come to mind instantly...Years ago, in my class, I won the AZ state MS championship using Sierra bullets never, ever, seen a wrong bullet in a wrong box.
5 Have had impacts at distance, that was well under 2K fps. All animals quickly dead, bullet always expanded. I'm sure you have, my personal limits (for elk) are 2,000 fps, that'just me.
[/quot


[quote]just don't stir up lies that don't apply or apply to many other situations... Only a punk would say that and you would not say that to my face, so why say it here? Facts are facts about Barnes, suck it up and accept it.


If you don't like my truthful comments don't read them. Just call Barnes and ask them about the problems they have had in the past. Dave Scoville of Wolf Publishing addressed all the problems I stated and more in an article he wrote for Handloader a few years ago. Why don't you call him a liar? You cast a small shadow here boy.

Brian, the TSX bullet has only been out for few years.

Brian, the Barnes bullet was renouned for staying together at hyper speeds and light for caliber driven at high speeds made Barnes reputation. Because of lower BC's in moderate
cartridges Barnes would have a harder time opening up.

I should have said "I have been a Barnes fan for decades." Since the TSX has come out - I've used those, more than their other older designs.

Even with the Barnes, be it the "Originals" the "X's" the "XLC's" or the "TSX's" (I've used all of them) I still prefer them to be moderate to heavy bullets for any cartridge I'm using.

Even with every new permutation of Barnes's all-copper bullets - I still have absolutely no use for the light-for-caliber rounds. For deer, who cares? It's bigger game that I want bullets like Barnes for anyways.

I base my observations on my experience.

For arguments sake - for Moose or Elk or the big bears - why would anyone use the lightest TSX? What possible benefit could you derive from such a practice?

or you could move to lapine and save a couple hundred grand

[Quote] by AggieDog
SU35, I am in your camp 100 percent. Your reasons are exactly why I for the life of me, cant say nice things about Barnes. I load TSX's, but I have privatly been waiting for someone else to come along and do it better, appears Nosler has done it.[Quote]

On what do you base your opion? Exactly how do you know that Nosler "has done it better" ? Have you tested this bullet? Did get samples to try before Mule Deer ?
_________________________

Bring your northern @ss down here and I'll face to face you in a second...

Nah just kiddin. I'm not into the name calling stuff. Its childish IMHO.

I'll happily call anyone a liar if I believe it. I don't care if they are a writer or a fellow competitor.

Here is the key. You hate Barnes for some errors. I stated they all do it. You don't slam all the others. Only barnes. Thats my point. You have a beef with them and thats cool, it just doesn't reflect the total story.

Barnes has been on the cutting edge for many years. Without them we would not have the wealth of better bullets we have now. Failure goes with cutting edge. Ask the AMU who came to me to tweak up the 90s in the AR15. I was the cutting edge on figuring out how to use them. The very first 90s I shot hit the target oblong. Didn't give up though as tehre was a purpose for them.

BTW I admit being wrong-- I am not aware of the Barnes errors in the book--but its happend other places, I stand corrected there. but then again I've always started low, ran by pressure signs and accept what the chrono says. One cannot run blindly without common sense. Those that do have the gene pool cleaned from time to time. Did we go over the part about jumping off the bridge? Kinda kiddin but partly serious here too.

I should add my compliments on the class win! I've always been happy with my accomplishments also. They take a lot of work and it all to fall together on the correct day. And the medals on the wall for my wife and I from Camp Perry will always bring back memories. Especially coming off the line with the only perfect score at 600 military or civilian the one year. Of course the year I managed to beat Tubb at 600 in our state match, my service rifle over his T2K, was somewhat special too. More so that it was the first ever perfect score fired at 600 on that windy range... BTW have you been to the new West coast "Perry" matches yet? You might only shoot MS though. I tend to shoot a bit of this and that, but service rifle was my main thing. Something about not being able to shoot an AR15 (if I'm correct) just bothers me but they seem to be going over really well.

Let me try to go back real quick and get to the general point. ALL makers have issues. Nosler, Sierra, Hornady,Barnes, JLK,Berger etc... I've brought up issues to Berger, JLK,Hornady, and Barnes and as results had the new bullets sent in to replace and to test and relay if they were fixed or not.
Point being is its not just barnes. Thats the main point here. Errors happen to everyone. Its up to us to use common sense to stay safe. And to report things to the makers so they can fix them.

Seems like a hate thing to me really. Like I said I have used almost every bullet out there. Even noticed a box of Berts just now. I have uses for almost every brand out there and have seen the good and bad on almost all of them.

Boy(grinning) signing out.

Jeff

Oh yeah, if the new Nosler proves to be as good or better than the TSX, then we still have Barnes to thank for continuing to push the envelope.

Half of it's from Oklahoma, so
you just may have more than you can handle...


Jeff,

First, I appreciate your post and thank you.

Anybody who can be on the same field as Tubb and take it to him
has my kudo's!

I really don't hate Barnes, I dog them and hope they will put a little more money into QC. I've worked in the industry and know how tuff it can be to please everybody. I just think Barnes can try harder. They have a track record....
But, like I said they are a heck of an accurate bullet.

If Barnes made this new bullet of theirs to open up it would for me be the ultimate in my 6.5's for deer.

Dia. Weight Description............ S.D. B.C. Cat. #
NEW .264" 110 gr Banded Spitze .225 .452 26422

I can imagine driving this one at 3,600 fps out of my 264.

Take care,

Bob

And have more than a 4000 square foot lot with a 3000 square foot house on it!!!!

I have run a few numbers using the Infinity software to see what 200 grain bullets look like, on paper, for the .30-06. Assuming Nosler's BCs are correct and using a muzzle velocity of 2600 fps, the Accubond has 90 fps more velocity at 300 yards, and 100 fps at 350 yards, than the Partition. Now supposedly Partitions will open reliably down to 1800 fps or less, but with monolithics the general consensus is that they're tougher than Partitions, which might make for chancy expansion. So instead of working my butt off to find a safe, accurate, and reliable load that gives 2700 fps, I can have a mild load that still produces good velocity at 300 yards or whatever.

The nice thing about BC is that its benefits don't necessarily cost that much. More juice downrange, without using more powder, or generating more pressure, or requiring a longer barrel, much less going to a bigger case. If we can have lower drag without onerous penalties elsewhere, why not? I really like the idea of there being a narrower velocity range between muzzle and max hunting range. Makes it easier to have one bullet perform well at both ends of the spectrum.

Bob

Now thats a good reason to dog the company. To make em even better! I'll go that one! Heck the accuracy issue was a tough one to start with. I think they have a great idea. Superb one in my books and I'll trade a bit of extra ballistic tip type expansion for retained weight and penetration. But I'm back to opinions. I think that R/D is expensive and it takes more than some field trials to work things out. The tsx has worked the accuracy issues out. Putting a plastic tip in the bullet tells me they are worried about expansion. I've personally never seen it. Except in my backstop. I have seen a couple of bullets recovered taht were not expanded. My personal experience comes from loading them for a lot of local folks. Each one recovered, from anywhere in the US and to Africa also, have been 98% weight and nice looking. My longest shot is 802 on a caribou. 2 shots,both hits. One lungs/liver, the 2nd spine. Both entries were 338 caliber, both about thumbnail size coming out, from the 338 win mag. I used my buddies rifle-- that rifle has seen a lot of AK game and backup shots. The guides up there are about fed up with plastic tip bullet failures. The bonded ones may turn that around, but a bonded one or more did miserably on a brownie last spring....While the 388 was loaned out and a hunter accidentally... shot through a 6 inch alder, then through a BC black bear, and out the other side through a small alder, never to be found and the blood trail was impressive enough.

Enough rambling there....

Dnot' know if I can take an Okie. Thats some tough country too at times.

We all get a bit passionate. But its good to see that we can work it out!! And end up in the same book, if not same sentence.

Have a great weekend!

Jeff

do you guys think Nosler is going to introduce these at a "much" cheaper price then the MRX and then, when they start to catch on, raise thr price dramitically? I sure do. with that said, once they come out in a 130-140 .277 or 140 .284 i will try them. if Winchester loads them factory for my 30-06 i will try them in that also.

Hmm, what happened to Winchesters XP3 bullet?

Jw, I sure havent, but you can sure bet I will, as I CLEARLY am a Nosler fan first. I guess you will just have to deal with it, wont you.

How am I going to have to DEAL with it?

I wonder if that gent had tags for those two alders?