Just for the record; We’ve had a red flag gun law here in Indiana since 2005. Hasn’t had a negative affect on gun ownership and has resulted in over a 10% reduction in suicide by firearm. That’s a good thing.
“There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot.” ALDO LEOPOLD
Two things.........first, at some point in time, probably sooner rather than later, there will be some serious gun control legislation that will become the law of the land. In other words, it will pretty much do away with the Second Amendment.......and it will be supported by a majority of the politicians in BOTH parties, the SCOTUS, and the NRA. The NRA will say that it is necessary in order to hold onto the rest of our rights.
Secondly....I don't know of anyone, other than a fool, and there are quite a few of those around, who would not support a law that would keep guns, along with other deadly weapons, out of the hands of people who desire to use them to take the lives of innocent people. But, therein lies the rub......how do you determine who those people are? We do not live in a perfect world, one whereby we would know who is, and who isn't, a dangerous threat to society. I might get mad at my neighbor and decide to pay him back by falsely reporting that he is a dangerous man, and then he would be red flagged and could not buy a gun....when in fact, it would be that was the bad guy, and he the good one.
I can see all sorts of differing scenarios, but, I do agree with those who say something needs to be done to keep guns out of the hands of someone who intends on using a gun to commit a crime with. I just don't know how you go about doing it without stepping on the rights of the innocent people.
? Does anybody know how we can oust Wayne from his position of dictator of the NRA and end his reign of using our organization as his personal cash cow? Then maybe we could turn our considerable financial resources to the real fight for our liberty. As it is now he names the president of the NRA and the board members. I have to give the devil his due, he has been able to scam millions of otherwise intelligent people.
That right there tells me you don't know bupkiss about the NRA. If you were ever and involved member, you would know all about how that process works. That goes for all of you whiners who never bothered to learn anything abut the workings and members rights of the NRA, but love to bitch and moan about how they don't do your bidding.
I thought we already had a law called the Second Amendment that pretty well covered it.M7
That's what I thought also.
That organization that keeps telling us how they are protecting our gun rights haven't been doing a very good job the last 50 years have they?
I keep reading that without them we would lose those rights, seems we are losing our rights with them one step at a time anyway.
That's pretty funny, when you consider that prior to 50 years ago, all they were was a gun club with no beneficial political activity at all. You've done a pretty good job of talking yourself in circles the last couple of days. Congrats.
I thought we already had a law called the Second Amendment that pretty well covered it.M7
That's what I thought also.
That organization that keeps telling us how they are protecting our gun rights haven't been doing a very good job the last 50 years have they?
I keep reading that without them we would lose those rights, seems we are losing our rights with them one step at a time anyway.
That's pretty funny, when you consider that prior to 50 years ago, all they were was a gun club with no beneficial political activity at all. You've done a pretty good job of talking yourself in circles the last couple of days. Congrats.
Really? So misinformed.
Quote
The NRA assisted Roosevelt in drafting the 1934 National Firearms Act and the 1938 Gun Control Act, the first federal gun control laws. These laws placed heavy taxes and regulation
For the next 30 years, the NRA continued to support gun control. By the late 1960s a shift in the NRA platform was on the horizon.
On Nov. 22, 1963, President John F. Kennedy was assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald. He shot the president with an Italian military surplus rifle purchased from a NRA mail-order advertisement. NRA Executive Vice-President Franklin Orth agreed at a congressional hearing that mail-order sales should be banned stating, “We do think that any sane American, who calls himself an American, can object to placing into this bill the instrument which killed the president of the United States.” The NRA also supported California’s Mulford Act of 1967, which had banned carrying loaded weapons in public in response to the Black Panther Party’s impromptu march on the State Capitol to protest gun control legislation on May 2, 1967.
? Does anybody know how we can oust Wayne from his position of dictator of the NRA and end his reign of using our organization as his personal cash cow? Then maybe we could turn our considerable financial resources to the real fight for our liberty. As it is now he names the president of the NRA and the board members. I have to give the devil his due, he has been able to scam millions of otherwise intelligent people.
That right there tells me you don't know bupkiss about the NRA. If you were ever and involved member, you would know all about how that process works. That goes for all of you whiners who never bothered to learn anything abut the workings and members rights of the NRA, but love to bitch and moan about how they don't do your bidding.
Well good, you sound like you know how to clean house at NRA and I believe the troops are available to do it right here on the campfire along with like minded friends that they could muster. Since you know how, will you help us change the leadership and have some real free fair and competitive contests for leadership of NRA? It looks to me like Wayne has 'em by the nuts and it's for sure he won't turn loose of this tit easily without a fight. I don't blame Wayne for taking our money. It is our fault for giving it to him. He reminds me of an old parable I heard somewhere, "educate thy son and set him upon a rock and the fools will bring him wealth". I know one of the hardest things to do is convince someone that they have invested in a scam. Whether a religious belief, a stock investment, a bad marriage or whatever it takes some soul searching to say that "maybe I was wrong". I understand that, I've been in that position. Any help you can give is appreciated.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
? Does anybody know how we can oust Wayne from his position of dictator of the NRA and end his reign of using our organization as his personal cash cow? Then maybe we could turn our considerable financial resources to the real fight for our liberty. As it is now he names the president of the NRA and the board members. I have to give the devil his due, he has been able to scam millions of otherwise intelligent people.
That right there tells me you don't know bupkiss about the NRA. If you were ever and involved member, you would know all about how that process works. That goes for all of you whiners who never bothered to learn anything abut the workings and members rights of the NRA, but love to bitch and moan about how they don't do your bidding.
Well good, you sound like you know how to clean house at NRA and I believe the troops are available to do it right here on the campfire along with like minded friends that they could muster. Since you know how, will you help us change the leadership and have some real free fair and competitive contests for leadership of NRA? It looks to me like Wayne has 'em by the nuts and it's for sure he won't turn loose of this tit easily without a fight. I don't blame Wayne for taking our money. It is our fault for giving it to him. He reminds me of an old parable I heard somewhere, "educate thy son and set him upon a rock and the fools will bring him wealth". I know one of the hardest things to do is convince someone that they have invested in a scam. Whether a religious belief, a stock investment, a bad marriage or whatever it takes some soul searching to say that "maybe I was wrong". I understand that, I've been in that position. Any help you can give is appreciated.
Tell you what, Hastings. I don't offer instruction to any adult who has the means and the intelligence to learn things on their own. It ain't no secret. Knock yerself out.
Unless a person is mentally deficient enough to be placed on at least a 72-hour involuntary hold by authorities and then after having at least two mental professionals diagnosed and then in court adjudicated as such, they should not lose the right to keep and bear arms..
I think in order for your criteria to work, society would need to become more efficient at being able to get people diagnosed as such, but as it stands, somebody mentally unstable can skirt by avoiding such, until the moment they go over the edge. I still believe family is the key, they are first to know, if there is to be new legislation, empower the family. A majority of mass shooters have had family's who knew their loved ones were sick.
To use the uni-bomber as an example, it took family to stop him from killing more than he did, and I believe if family is given more leeway, even special leeway, that could be a major improvement.
Or even have said rights interfered with, except in that while in a locked down facility for 72-hour observation (and whatever time it takes to adjudicate his mental state)
After being locked down or "5150'd, the next step is to be 5250'd where the criteria to hold is even stiffer. The vast majority of people released from a facility are far, far, from being mentally stable, and safe with a firearm.
Unless a person is mentally deficient enough to be placed on at least a 72-hour involuntary hold by authorities and then after having at least two mental professionals diagnosed and then in court adjudicated as such, they should not lose the right to keep and bear arms..
I think in order for your criteria to work, society would need to become more efficient at being able to get people diagnosed as such, but as it stands, somebody mentally unstable can skirt by avoiding such, until the moment they go over the edge. I still believe family is the key, they are first to know, if there is to be new legislation, empower the family. A majority of mass shooters have had family's who knew their loved ones were sick.
To use the uni-bomber as an example, it took family to stop him from killing more than he did, and I believe if family is given more leeway, even special leeway, that could be a major improvement.
I know your pain somewhat reading about your daughter, my sympathies go out to you. I had a son that was a good boy until at about 18 had began to suffer from Schizophrenia like his mother had. It was a rough 10 years then he like her passed. Good luck with her in the future.
Unless a person is mentally deficient enough to be placed on at least a 72-hour involuntary hold by authorities and then after having at least two mental professionals diagnosed and then in court adjudicated as such, they should not lose the right to keep and bear arms..
I think in order for your criteria to work, society would need to become more efficient at being able to get people diagnosed as such, but as it stands, somebody mentally unstable can skirt by avoiding such, until the moment they go over the edge. I still believe family is the key, they are first to know, if there is to be new legislation, empower the family. A majority of mass shooters have had family's who knew their loved ones were sick.
To use the uni-bomber as an example, it took family to stop him from killing more than he did, and I believe if family is given more leeway, even special leeway, that could be a major improvement.
I know your pain somewhat reading about your daughter, my sympathies go out to you. I had a son that was a good boy until at about 18 had began to suffer from Schizophrenia like his mother had. It was a rough 10 years then he like her passed. Good luck with her in the future.
Unless a person is mentally deficient enough to be placed on at least a 72-hour involuntary hold by authorities and then after having at least two mental professionals diagnosed and then in court adjudicated as such, they should not lose the right to keep and bear arms..
I think in order for your criteria to work, society would need to become more efficient at being able to get people diagnosed as such, but as it stands, somebody mentally unstable can skirt by avoiding such, until the moment they go over the edge. I still believe family is the key, they are first to know, if there is to be new legislation, empower the family. A majority of mass shooters have had family's who knew their loved ones were sick.
To use the uni-bomber as an example, it took family to stop him from killing more than he did, and I believe if family is given more leeway, even special leeway, that could be a major improvement.
I know your pain somewhat reading about your daughter, my sympathies go out to you. I had a son that was a good boy until at about 18 had began to suffer from Schizophrenia like his mother had. It was a rough 10 years then he like her passed. Good luck with her in the future.
Sorry to hear about your wife and son, it gives people a different perspective. When I was young I looked at the homeless people in Santa Cruz with humor, now I feel disdain for what they have done to themselves AND their families. You know, the hardest thing in life, is trying to convince a sick person that they are sick, I'm sure you spent a great deal of time trying to do the same.
Unless a person is mentally deficient enough to be placed on at least a 72-hour involuntary hold by authorities and then after having at least two mental professionals diagnosed and then in court adjudicated as such, they should not lose the right to keep and bear arms..
I think in order for your criteria to work, society would need to become more efficient at being able to get people diagnosed as such, but as it stands, somebody mentally unstable can skirt by avoiding such, until the moment they go over the edge. I still believe family is the key, they are first to know, if there is to be new legislation, empower the family. A majority of mass shooters have had family's who knew their loved ones were sick.
To use the uni-bomber as an example, it took family to stop him from killing more than he did, and I believe if family is given more leeway, even special leeway, that could be a major improvement.
I know your pain somewhat reading about your daughter, my sympathies go out to you. I had a son that was a good boy until at about 18 had began to suffer from Schizophrenia like his mother had. It was a rough 10 years then he like her passed. Good luck with her in the future.
Sorry to hear about your wife and son, it gives people a different perspective. When I was young I looked at the homeless people in Santa Cruz with humor, now I feel disdain for what they have done to themselves AND their families. You know, the hardest thing in life, is trying to convince a sick person that they are sick, I'm sure you spent a great deal of time trying to do the same.
Having dealt with a lot of folks who were mentally ill, I sympathize. The Red Flag laws simply won't do any good. They are targeted at people who aren't mentally ill.
I'll add something to what you said also, and I think you'll agree. Invariably folks who are mentally ill, but stable with their meds, will quit taking their meds. They always think they can do without them and they almost always can't.
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