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Skeet two is between skeet and IC

The Skeet two choke I have is .008

If I remember right I had an old Briley Skeet two that was .012 so possible to be greater then IC as well.

From Bruce Buck:

"Skeet 1 is roughly equivalent to today’s standard skeet choke. In a 12 gauge gun it is often .005″ constriction. It’s supposed to deliver the optimal pattern of #9s at 21 yards. Skeet 2 is about equivalent to today’s Light Modified 12 gauge choke and often has a constriction of .015″. That’s in between Improved Cylinder and Modified as they are measured in the US."

I knew we would gravitate to constriction this and that. 😃

Here is where I’m at. As the Brits would say, “modeefied and modeefied.” I could live with it from from Ruffed Grouse to Doves to Pheasants to Ducks and Geese.

When I get the chance, I’ll past some pics of IC, Mod and IM on a pattern board at 20 yards. I know there will only be inches of variation in width and the old theme of “chokes give us inches, but we most often miss in feet” will be obvious. Meant to do it tomorrow, but life got in the way. Most don’t realize there is little difference between open and tight at the ranges most game is killed. And that is inside 20 yards. Yet tight gives you a center cushion when things get outside 30. Where open chokes are coming apart.

Tighter is better when it comes to the game fields. Less fringe means less cripples, and if one perfectly centers a Gamebird up close with IC you still get hamburger. I’ve shot a lot of game from close to out a bit and seldom have I blown one up at close range with Mod, while I still have a decent pattern to work with at distance.

At 20 Yards and under it really is not going to make much difference. I remember Anthony set this target I think for the Master Cup. It was right in front of you maybe and I mean maybe 10 yards. Guys were unscrewing chokes to either shoot threads or a spreader. It really didn't matter what choke you used. The shot never really had the time to open up. From what I saw at that station most either smoked it or missed very little of anything else.

We often see these pictures of a game bird with an excellent pattern and a circle superimposed on it. It gives us a mental picture that is kind of unrealistic Let’s say the 1” column of compacted shot in the shotshell has now stretched to 6-8’ long at 40 yds. That perfectly centered bird on a 90* crossing shot has a whole bunch of shot that has passed in front and a bunch behind but some of “the center” caught him. Not all the shot on that patterning board arrives at the same time.

Of course the shot string conundrum is most applicable on the 90* crossing shot and is diminished in effect as the angle decreases. This shot string thing is exaggerated with the longer (magnum loads) the shotshell in that particular gauge. We might arbitrarily say the 3/4 oz 28 load (the great “square” load), the 1 oz 20, and the 1 1/4 oz 12 ga load might be roughly equivalent though the latter two might quite be as good as that of the 28.

I have witnessed pheasants flushing in a loose flock, at the outer ranges and headed for thick cover to my left, dropping the first, missing the next bird close to it, but dropping a bird “far” to the right with that shot. I remember being momentarily surprised. That bird in this anecdote must have been hit by the very end of that shot string.

I think it’s intuitive that the tighter the choke the longer the shot string with the same shotshell.

George,
Re shot string: The more open chokes have less shot in the center core and more on the outside edges that are not drafting. Thus they are more effected by air resistance and fall behind quickly making for a longer shotstring with the more open chokes. Most of the shot with a tight choke are drafting tight in a cluster.

Ash’s patterns prove the same. The open chokes GTH quicker because they are more affected by wind and fall behind.

However, some knowledge experts say pattern width is more important than stringing. Again that is basically what is shown in Ash’s circles.

I havent done a bunch of pattern testing, but the little I have done, the extended tubes seem to throw a more consistent pattern than a flush tube of the same constriction. I think it may be that the more gradual taper causes less shot distortion. Thats all I can figure.

Modified is what I use 90% in a single barrel and in an O/U, I prefer LM/M for 90%. Talking feathers here, not clay.

Re shotstring: he mentions he tries to have the Bird fly into the shotstring instead of trying to put the shot onto the Bird. Most of us try to put shot into the Bird. There is a difference.

Good info and video. Can always learn something.

Well, he mentions he uses tight chokes and has a long shotstring. Something that doesn't make sense to me, but he is George Digweed....


Now, the Birds in the first video are close because of the particular situation, but he is still using tight chokes. How about some far Birds with the same chokes....He uses a fixed choke shotgun and, as mentioned it is identical to his competition shotgun.

I can say with certainty that the right choke paired with the right shot size can give a clear advantage when hunting waterfowl. A tight choke paired with #2s can really bring them down. Killing them dead is a whole nother matter. Even a well hit duck within 30/40 yards can still be very much alive when they hit the water. Many that are taken down from high above require a follow up shot. If their head pops up after they hit the water, they get a follow up shot. When they are flying a bit high, I like a long range Patternmaster along with #2s. When they are within the decoy spread, I like #3s or 4s and a short range choke. My Patternmaster chokes don't list the chokes as full, mod, imp cyl etc. My guess is a Patternmaster long range is about the equivalent of a typical modified. Extra long range would be an improved modified. We love the days when we have the short range chokes in. It typically means they are decoyng in. All this opinion is relative to hunting flooded timber.

Regarding Skeet II choke and where it falls on the spectrum- both camps are correct. Up to the 1950s or early 60s many skeet guns had Skeet constrictions between .000" and .004" with Skeet II around .008". Now, just how often this was the actual case is open to conjecture as today's tolerance for a given constriction falls in the +/-.003" range. That would make it very possible for the Skeet choke to be tighter than Skeet II in some cases. In fact, I have seen several Winchester Model 21 skeet guns with the left barrel more open than the right which was passed off as the purchaser's preference. That may be so but would need to see documentation to believe that.

Later, there was less negative stigma toward breaking targets past the center mark and the desire for a tighter choke came into being. As few guns had Skeet II and those who did have that constriction often had little idea what it was, the Skeet II designation was moved between IC and Mod. This I have seen in ads for Poly-choke devices from the early 70s and with the early Winchoke system which came into being in the 60s if I remember correctly.

This is how I see this conundrum based on my sources and memory. Depending on the era one references (including modern choke manufacturers and not just us here) Skeet II could be on either side of IC. General opinion currently has Skeet II on the tight side of IC but that is not written in stone.

For pheasants and ducks, I'll take more choke over less every time. It's easy to hit birds close in with anything, much harder to hit birds with adequate pellet numbers at distance with an open choke.

You should also split your shot types and sizes for a more detailed choke answer. If I am shooting a Duck crossing at 40 yards with Steel shot. I want a Full pattern with 3" 1400fps 1 1/4oz Steel #1. In my Wingmaster 12ga this happens with an extended .705" Choke. The markings on the choke say Imp Mod, The actual on paper pellet counts at 40 yards give Extra full patterns. With the same choke in barrel I can switch to 2 3/4" 1 1/8oz of #3 steel at 1400fps and get a true Modified pattern at 40 yards. When I am hunting with lead shot. It is time for the factory imp Cyl choke. Except for the rare pigeon shoot. The Full.

I use Light Modified for ducks with #2 or #3 steel, doves #8 lead, and pheasants #6 lead.

What if, all in the same day, the first one is crossing at 40, the second flaring at 30 and the third has feet down settling in at 20?

Use something middle of the road.