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Joined: Sep 2006
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Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,226 |
In other words, my M70 30-06 loves H4350 and 165 gr bullets. If I move to a 200 gr, does QL outline info (e.g., Barrel Time) about H4350's characteristics that would help narrow my search for a slower powder for this heavier bullet?
Real-world example: Moving up to the 200 AB and decided to try Hunter. Terrible groups; inconsistent. At 100 yards, I'd be getting 2"-3" groups from a rifle that consistently shoots < MOA. So, I'm guessing it's a no-go with Hunter. But, are there tips within QL from H4350 that would help direct me towards the best slower powder?
Murphy was a grunt.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,488
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,488 |
QL can be set up to deliver predictions for a particular barrel time, but it is up to the user to figure out what's safe and practical. It WILL NOT do your thinking for you. Here is an example: Cartridge : 6 mm AR
Bullet : .243, 90, Nosler Accubond 56357
Useable Case Capaci: 31.772 grain H2O = 2.063 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.250 inch = 57.15 mm
Barrel Length : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Barrel Time: 1.017 milliseconds
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
29 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 70%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Accurate 4064 105.7 30.3 1.96 2872 100.0 57420 9410 1.017
Accurate 2495 99.9 28.6 1.85 2868 100.0 57962 9032 1.018
Alliant Reloder-26 116.7 36.7 2.38 2859 92.4 51365 11255 1.017
Accurate 4350 111.5 32.7 2.12 2851 95.2 53368 10137 1.017
Alliant Reloder-17 105.2 32.3 2.09 2851 96.6 51335 10435 1.017
Alliant Reloder-16 113.6 32.4 2.10 2849 95.9 51721 10259 1.017
Norma 203 old 104.1 30.8 2.00 2842 98.1 54965 9727 1.017
Vihtavuori N550 107.9 32.3 2.09 2837 94.8 53021 10130 1.017
IMR 4895 100.2 29.3 1.90 2834 97.1 54064 9799 1.017
Alliant Reloder-23 122.8 35.2 2.28 2834 95.4 51636 10418 1.017
Accurate 2520 96.7 29.9 1.93 2833 99.5 55346 9295 1.017
Lovex D073.6 Match Rifle 98.9 29.9 1.93 2833 99.5 55346 9295 1.017
IMR 3031 100.8 27.6 1.79 2832 100.0 53404 9063 1.017
Norma MRP 117.1 35.8 2.32 2829 89.0 51770 10759 1.017
Hodgdon BL-C2 95.7 30.6 1.98 2829 98.1 54051 9675 1.017
IMR 4831 117.0 32.8 2.13 2827 95.2 53005 9890 1.017
Norma URP 110.8 32.1 2.08 2826 94.8 52398 10004 1.017
Norma 203B 101.6 29.8 1.93 2824 97.0 54178 9681 1.017
Hodgdon CFE223 94.5 30.8 2.00 2822 97.1 52611 9746 1.017
Alliant Reloder-15 101.0 29.6 1.92 2821 96.4 54196 9681 1.017
Winchester 748 92.6 29.2 1.89 2818 98.8 53107 9409 1.017
Don't be the darkness.
America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,313
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,313 |
It doesn't really help you think about what's accurate. Barrel time is theoretically useful, but is no substitute for a velocity ladder followed by a seating depth ladder.
I would look at slower powders in the same series from ADI - so for example H4831 or H4831ssc.
Of course your problem with Hunter might have been seating depth or not being on a velocity node, in which case just switching powders isn't necessarily going to help.
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,263
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,263 |
Of course your problem with Hunter might have been seating depth or not being on a velocity node, in which case just switching powders isn't necessarily going to help.
This some barrels will show a distinct preference for certain bullets or powder but the bullet and how it is seated is no. 1 for me, powder type a distant second. Work up to 58 or 59 grains H4831 with the 200 grain bullet. This is JB's "Loads that Work" and seems to be almost universal. Then tweak seating depth to establish a baseline. Hunter should work but the above load has been tested and can let you know what accuracy level you can get or if your rifle just does not like that bullet.
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 106
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 106 |
I hope you guys are not using the Ba numbers that come with QL as something that was carved on a tablet and carried down a mountain. If you are, your walking on thin ice. Some time they are almost/sometimes close. Most of the time the preset Ba numbers are just scary. Hodgdon load data list the starting load grains -fps- psi. Enter all the info for that load, cartridge,bullet,barrel length and oal. Look what QL spits out. Is the fps and psi anywhere near what Hodgdon says it is? No its not because the Ba numbers for both the fps and psi need to be changed by adj.the Ba up down till it matches Hodgdons numbers. You will have TWO different numbers for that load. There will be two different Ba numbers for the starting load and two different Ba's for the max load. I just ran the number for a 243 Win with a 55BT bullet with a 24"' and 2.650" oal., with 44.5grs of 760. QL list 760 @4529 . 3687fps is a Ba of 4977 and 50,700psi is 5293. If you don't believe me run the number for your self.
Last edited by FatAlbert; 01/05/20.
Jim Gibson
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