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Originally Posted by battue
Originally Posted by T_Inman
What's the reason for the push to keep the opener on a Monday?

Is the season planned to be opened two days earlier or five days later than in the past? Is the last day of the season to remain the same or is the season still going to be X days long?


I don't care what day they open it, but here is the cliff notes version.

The Monday opener after Thanksgiving is much the same as a traditional State holiday among many. Been that way for what seems like forever. Much the same as December 25th. December 25th may fall on any day of the week, but the 25th is the 25th and the Monday after Thanksgiving is "the" Monday, and that Monday is the Deer season opener. For those who don't want the change, the reason is tradition. Nothing more, nothing less. It is their tradition, and I suspect those following will come to think a Saturday opener is their tradition and will be resistant to change.

If we ever get to hunt on Sunday, watch what will happen. "Why can't Saturday be a traveling day and I won't have to take off work on Friday. Sunday should be the opener, it makes sense in that it is the first day of the week." Waaa, Waaa, Waaa, Waaa!!!!

They’re phugkng with your tradition.!


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Originally Posted by pahick
Originally Posted by battue
Originally Posted by pahick
Originally Posted by douge
Why would anyone complain to their legislator if they kill a buck every year.


Game management isnt just about killing. Biological, sociological and economic factors. You specify pensions and medical under economics. Then its time to combine the agencies. How many studies does the Legislative Budget and Finance Committee have to do to prove we can do better by combining agencies? How many positions are mirrored between the 2? We are the only state in the nation with a game management agency that isnt under the general fund. I dont wanna hear the same old BS line about losing Pittman Robertson and Dingell Johnson funds. Thats plain horseschit, every other state gets em. If the legislature raids the combined agency, then we have a solution, WE VOTE THEM OUT! JUST like every other state. As it stands, we cant do schit!! The rogue agency that is the PGC has to change.


Current population of Pa is around 12.3 Million. May not be all that easy for around 900,000 licensed hunters, who are so divided they can't even agree on the day Deer season opens to vote anyone out.

And, by the time you get them out, the damage they cause may have become irreparable.

Some always want radical change when things are not going how they want, when fixing what you have may be the best solution. Change for only the sake of change best be done with more than a little consideration of what it will bring.

Who here thinks the legislature would not love to have control over the 1million plus acres of Gamelands?How could they achieve it? Think timber and gas where the GC has mineral rights. Gas will be big money as soon as the infrastructure is complete. Making the GC go bankrupt by not having the funds to function, and saying it is necessary to take them over would most likely be the easiest.

Too late to vote anyone out when the titles have been transferred over to the State to do with as the politicians wish.



Same BS doom and gloom ..... yet every other state in the nation deals with their legislature. But we cant do it here? Pffft!!! Blow smoke up someone elses ass.


And you think Pittsburgh and Philadelphia give a single hoot re you, the GC or your Deer hunting.You think they are not the power brokers of State politics? Your boner is so tight to bring down those who you think are the problem, it has pulled your eyelids shut so you can’t see anything else but what a complete revolution will satisfy.

You think our current Governor cares about your hunting? We have more than needed in the legislature that are anti 2nd. But you think your little personal power trip to destroy some good people in the GC is the path.

What was the total of your little money saving pic? (4.8 million)That amount doesn’t even buy gas to fuel all the GC equipment and insure it. Big deal. You should go back and be an accountant and save Pa hunting.



Last edited by battue; 04/18/19.

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When they can not sell enough licence to fund the PGC then the Legislature will care. Just why do you think the PGC is so hell bent to attract new blood , I.e. hunters whom bought licences before but dropped out, not just youth? Because they see the gravy train slowing down and know they will be in bad shape if they must rely on the Legislature to take over funding.
THINK DO NOT JUST DRINK THE KOOL-AID !!!!

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Originally Posted by battue
Originally Posted by pahick
Originally Posted by battue
Originally Posted by pahick
Originally Posted by douge
Why would anyone complain to their legislator if they kill a buck every year.


Game management isnt just about killing. Biological, sociological and economic factors. You specify pensions and medical under economics. Then its time to combine the agencies. How many studies does the Legislative Budget and Finance Committee have to do to prove we can do better by combining agencies? How many positions are mirrored between the 2? We are the only state in the nation with a game management agency that isnt under the general fund. I dont wanna hear the same old BS line about losing Pittman Robertson and Dingell Johnson funds. Thats plain horseschit, every other state gets em. If the legislature raids the combined agency, then we have a solution, WE VOTE THEM OUT! JUST like every other state. As it stands, we cant do schit!! The rogue agency that is the PGC has to change.


Current population of Pa is around 12.3 Million. May not be all that easy for around 900,000 licensed hunters, who are so divided they can't even agree on the day Deer season opens to vote anyone out.

And, by the time you get them out, the damage they cause may have become irreparable.

Some always want radical change when things are not going how they want, when fixing what you have may be the best solution. Change for only the sake of change best be done with more than a little consideration of what it will bring.

Who here thinks the legislature would not love to have control over the 1million plus acres of Gamelands?How could they achieve it? Think timber and gas where the GC has mineral rights. Gas will be big money as soon as the infrastructure is complete. Making the GC go bankrupt by not having the funds to function, and saying it is necessary to take them over would most likely be the easiest.

Too late to vote anyone out when the titles have been transferred over to the State to do with as the politicians wish.



Same BS doom and gloom ..... yet every other state in the nation deals with their legislature. But we cant do it here? Pffft!!! Blow smoke up someone elses ass.


And you think Pittsburgh and Philadelphia give a single hoot re you, the GC or your Deer hunting.You think they are not the power brokers of State politics? Your boner is so tight to bring down those who you think are the problem, it has pulled your eyelids shut so you can’t see anything else but what a complete revolution will satisfy.

You think our current Governor cares about your hunting? We have more than needed in the legislature that are anti 2nd. But you think your little personal power trip to destroy some good people in the GC is the path.

What was the total of your little money saving pic? (4.8 million)That amount doesn’t even buy gas to fuel all the GC equipment and insure it. Big deal. You should go back and be an accountant and save Pa hunting.





Get your head out of your ass. Philly? Pitt? Baltimore, New York, Cleveland, Chicago, .........quit with the excuses.

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Originally Posted by T_Inman
I've never set foot in Pennsylvania, let alone hunted it, so I may be missing something here but I simply fail to see the issue.

You all get an extra day of hunting. If you want to take off from town on Saturday, catch up with friends and such at camp on Sunday then hunt Monday morning, this change isn't preventing that. So you're not actually hunting on opening day, if this is how you want to plan your getaway. Is hunting opening morning without taking Friday off work that big of a deal?

I'd be popping a boner if I got an extra weekend day added to my rifle season. I don't give a damn about traditions or the Sunday fun day pre-hunt drunk fest though. I guess I am the odd man out.

I failed to see it to at first. It’s the tradition part that’s got a bunch of folks upset. Add that to the fact that allegedly the majority of hunters want to KEEP IT LIKE IT IS makes it worse. It’s more than just the pragmatic side of it.

Last edited by alwaysoutdoors; 04/18/19.

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New blood is not coming in and the old blood isn't re-upping. So the GC should not be hell bent on attracting new or bringing others back in? Wonder what your response would be if they came out and said we don't care about how many licenses we sell.

So lets hear what it would take for the GC to make you two happy. Lets get specific on policy and programs that will make Pa a place that hunters will be attracted to. How will you do it better. And will the resident accountant comment on how they will be funded and how much can be saved by any of his cut back programs. Add up the plus and minus accounts and then tell us what they would do with the extra.

Last edited by battue; 04/18/19.

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Disband the PGC, RESIGN, commit Hari Kari, just for starters

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It's a shame to see so much discord on this issue. All I can say, is I'll enjoy an extra day of hunting. Missing the opener won't happen for me, regardless of the day it falls on. There will be time to visit with the neighbors. We always manage to find that time. As for what this will do to help with drawing in new hunters, and also for hunter retention, I guess that remains to be seen. I hope we get Sunday hunting eventually. Time to step up into the 21st century.


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You and Hick have all the answers so besides destruction.

Please specific programs that will enhance hunting opportunities in Pa, policies that will bring about increased license sales and hunter satisfaction. Wildlife enhancement practices that will allow hunting to prosper into the future. Land management policies and acquisition. PR programs that will have a positive impact on non-hunters perception of hunting and your new organization.

What do you think it will cost and how will you pay for it.

If you two expect others to follow you, how will you lead other than to tell them to get their head out of their azz.

Last edited by battue; 04/19/19.

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I have compassion for folks on both sides of this issue. And it's easy to relate to both.

I also have compassion for the folks in wildlife conservation and management. Most get into that field due to passions for biology, ecosystems and the outdoors only to realize their real job is kowtowing to politics and social science.
There is never unanimous joy in any of their decisions. It's a thankless job filled with public resentment and I believe I'd sooner visit the dentist than have to walk a day in their shoes.

If the general public had 100% say in all decisions, some would do a nice job in their own wildlife management but it'd likely be self-serving. The vast majority would drive that bus right off the phuggin' cliff.

From my readings on this forum and others concerning deer hunting in PA, there's already been an ongoing decline in "camps" and tradition because younger generations in the lineage simply don't have the interest.
With the downward trend in license sales/hunters from coast-to-coast, it certainly seems like the perfect time to begin new traditions involving new/young hunters. It sure seems like a weekend opener would at least allow for current non-hunting youngsters Timmy and Sally to hunt on Saturday when mom would never think of letting them off of school. Timmy and Sally are the future of hunting folks - we've got to change with the times - nothing is forever.

From the outside looking in, it seems to me the decision offers a certain degree of flexibility for all but the diehard traditionalists.
I have not read the legislation - does it preclude anyone of what they've done in the past? Continue to have the social event on the weekend, then begin hunting on Monday?





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"If you two expect others to follow you, how will you lead other than to tell them to get their head out of their azz"

Yikes! Please don't include me in their insanity. How they conduct themselves here speaks volumes about their attitudes and what they bring to the table.

SKane: This decision to move the deer opener to Saturday, wasn't "legislation". It was a regulatory move by the Board of Commissioners. There is a difference in how such things come to pass here. The BOC can make regulations on issues under their control. They can set seasons/bag limits, permit fees and many other regulations.

Our very limited Sunday hunting is under the control of the Legislature, as are such things as the cost of the license itself, the cost of which has not gone up since 1999. Why? Because the disgruntled ankle biters continually complain to the politicians, with the same accusations you've seen posted here...


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Originally Posted by SKane
I have compassion for folks on both sides of this issue. And it's easy to relate to both.

I also have compassion for the folks in wildlife conservation and management. Most get into that field due to passions for biology, ecosystems and the outdoors only to realize their real job is kowtowing to politics and social science.
There is never unanimous joy in any of their decisions. It's a thankless job filled with public resentment and I believe I'd sooner visit the dentist than have to walk a day in their shoes.

If the general public had 100% say in all decisions, some would do a nice job in their own wildlife management but it'd likely be self-serving. The vast majority would drive that bus right off the phuggin' cliff.

From my readings on this forum and others concerning deer hunting in PA, there's already been an ongoing decline in "camps" and tradition already because younger generations in the lineage simply don't have the interest.
With the downward trend in license sales/hunters from coast-to-coast, it certainly seems like the perfect time to begin new traditions involving new/young hunters. It sure seems like a weekend opener would at least allow for current non-hunting youngsters Timmy and Sally to hunt on Saturday when mom would never think of letting them off of school. Timmy and Sally are the future of hunting folks - we've got to change with the times - nothing is forever.

From the outside looking in, it seems to me the decision offers a certain degree of flexibility for all but the diehard traditionalists.
I have not read the legislation - does it preclude anyone of what they've done in the past? Continue to have the social event on the weekend, then begin hunting on Monday?





Well stated


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Originally Posted by battue
You and Hick have all the answers so besides destruction.

Please specific programs that will enhance hunting opportunities in Pa, policies that will bring about increased license sales and hunter satisfaction. Wildlife enhancement practices that will allow hunting to prosper into the future. Land management policies and acquisition. PR programs that will have a positive impact on non-hunters perception of hunting and your new organization.

What do you think it will cost and how will you pay for it.

If you two expect others to follow you, how will you lead other than to tell them to get their head out of their azz.



Ill respond hopefully before the holiday is over. Snuck in quick on break(triple time $$$$$).

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Scott,
You over complicate the issue here in Pa. All the GC here has to do is have a Deer behind every bush and all the naysayers will be on here bragging about our great GC.

I find it odd that most of the younger bow hunting crowd are more than happy with how the GC does their job.

Have friends with good Hounds that absolutely pound Rabbits. Another acquaintance with a Squirrel Dog does the same.

Grouse hunters are not all that happy. However, none I know that want to destroy the GC.


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Originally Posted by pahick
Originally Posted by battue
You and Hick have all the answers so besides destruction.

Please specific programs that will enhance hunting opportunities in Pa, policies that will bring about increased license sales and hunter satisfaction. Wildlife enhancement practices that will allow hunting to prosper into the future. Land management policies and acquisition. PR programs that will have a positive impact on non-hunters perception of hunting and your new organization.

What do you think it will cost and how will you pay for it.

If you two expect others to follow you, how will you lead other than to tell them to get their head out of their azz.



Ill respond hopefully before the holiday is over. Snuck in quick on break(triple time $$$$$).


Should be interesting.

Hammering the boss for triple time, while beetching about another’s pension and pay is enlightening.

Last edited by battue; 04/19/19.

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Add me to the "Burn the vipers nest crowd". All too easy for someone from out of Pa. to comment whom is not affected by the opener switch, yet when I comment about the cost of non resident tags in western states they reply "stay home we do not need nor want you just keep paying $850 for a deer tag while I pay $12".
My big issue and one not many outsidrs are aware of is the suggestion for date switch (support by his going public with his comments) came from a sole Comissioner supported by his buddies on the Board for political reason, to allow his own college age children and his brother's college age kids to be able to hunt deer on the Saturday post Thanksgiving...pretty self serving I would say! Then when a poll by the PGC themselves of hunters DID NOT SUPPORT the switch took ANOTHER POLL with even a larger amount NOT SUPPORTING a date switch the BOC made the switch anyway. Said Comisssioners exerted enough pressure on 4 other members of the BOC to get his way....THAT IS PLAIN BULL SCHIT!! and the embedded members of this board with vested interests for a switch are doing their best to sell their viewpoint to anyone whom will listen. They have the ear of the naive and the greedy who see another Saturday to hunt while not being sage enough to realize what has happen with the politics.
The poster (s) whom suggest disbanding the PGC and the PFBC and reforming as one unit have it correct. To those nay sayers I ask just why do you think most every other state has just one agency with elected members vs. political appointees.

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Originally Posted by battue
Originally Posted by pahick
Originally Posted by battue
You and Hick have all the answers so besides destruction.

Please specific programs that will enhance hunting opportunities in Pa, policies that will bring about increased license sales and hunter satisfaction. Wildlife enhancement practices that will allow hunting to prosper into the future. Land management policies and acquisition. PR programs that will have a positive impact on non-hunters perception of hunting and your new organization.

What do you think it will cost and how will you pay for it.

If you two expect others to follow you, how will you lead other than to tell them to get their head out of their azz.



Ill respond hopefully before the holiday is over. Snuck in quick on break(triple time $$$$$).


Should be interesting.





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Originally Posted by 1bigdude
Originally Posted by douge
Why would anyone complain to their legislator if they kill a buck every year.One of the big reasons the PGC needs a license increase is to offset the rising costs of pension and medical.The state controls what the PGC has to dish out.The PGC has no control over it.When more money goes towards pensions and benefits,less will go towards game management.It's as simple as that.



So by your logic when the pendulum swings more towards pension and medical hunters should just accept little game management by the people that have the sole responsibility to manage the game so they become stuffed suits in an empty office. Wake up!How can you possibly be happy with put and take pheasant hunting,now that the PGC themselves admit they failed at the costly pheasant programs of the last several years?


I don't know you or anything about you,the way you hunt or how you manage your property.I don't remember you saying that you cry to your legislator and I don't recall you saying that you did.The bottom line is,many people do and the legislators are completely clueless to game management.It is is as simple as when more money has to go to administrative costs,then less goes to game management.Since the PGC has no control over pensions,they need a fee increase to better manage the wildlife.It really isn't rocket science.

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Originally Posted by battue
He didn’t get run out, he quit. Major difference and now their is one less.


Are you quite sure of that? To me it smells like a big bucket of rotting political fish.


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Originally Posted by eaglemountainman
Originally Posted by battue
He didn’t get run out, he quit. Major difference and now their is one less.


Are you quite sure of that? To me it smells like a big bucket of rotting political fish.


The vote was 5 for and 3 against. Have the other two dissenting voters been forced out. As of now he quit.

Second issue:




Also would be interesting to know the particular college Thanksgiving vacation schedule. May be valid depending on when Thanksgiving vacation ended and they had to start back.

(Had to edit upon giving additional consideration.)

Last edited by battue; 04/19/19.

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