Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire A MiG AT YOUR SIX....

I think ANY of the modern radars with enough power can do it, I've read about F15s doing that in Florida, down at Eglin.

I know one thing, I wouldn't want to be the guys that have to predict what kind of future war(s) we are likely to become involved in. Have to plan for everything to CAS over one of the "Stans" to a full-scale Air to Air battle with the Russians or Chinese. Oh what fun.

Heck, almost 40 years ago a B-52 guy told me they couldn't run their electronic warfare package at anything more than barest minimum power, or they'd fry every radio and television set (no to mention air traffic control radars) for 100 miles.

BQM-74C - Persian Gulf War combat use



Northrop developed the BQM-74C to simulate subsonic aircraft, including cruise missiles, for the US Navy in the late 1970s. Prior to the beginning of Operation Desert Storm in 1991, the US Air Force acquired 44 BQM-74Cs and reconfigured them from aerial targets into decoys. The BQM-74C's ability to fool Iraqi air defenses significantly reduced US and coalition aircraft losses.

In the 1991 Persian Gulf War, BQM-74Cs were used as decoys during the initial air attacks into Iraq. The USAF Big Safari group was put in charge of the decoy effort, which was codenamed "Project Scathe Mean."

The Chukar drones that were available were usually launched from DC-130 director aircraft, and could also be launched from strike aircraft such as F-15s or F-16s. These launch resources were not available though, so the Navy found twelve ground launchers in their inventory that could be made serviceable, while RATO booster units were found stockpiled in Belgium. Each BQM-74C was fitted with a pair of corner reflectors to enhance its radar signature to imitate a manned aircraft.

A 40-person team of specialists, obtained from disbanded ground-launched cruise missile units, was assembled in a few days and designated the "4468th Tactical Reconnaissance Group". The 4468th moved on a fast track, with trucks modified and obtained from a California commercial trucking firm, tool kits purchased from Sears, and field gear bought from war surplus stores. The teams were given quick training, equipped with 44 Navy BQM-74Cs, and sent to Saudi Arabia in two six-launcher teams in about two weeks, arriving near the Iraqi border on 15 October 1990. The northern team was sited to cover Baghdad and large military bases in that area, while the southern team was sited to cover Basra and Kuwait City.

When the Gulf War air campaign began on the night of 17 January 1991, Iraq was hit by waves of F-117 Nighthawk stealth fighters and BGM-109 Tomahawk cruise missiles. A group of 38 BQM-74Cs were assigned to be launched as diversion for the second wave of attacks, with the launches generally in groups of three, and 37 were launched successfully in precisely timed waves. One group of three was intercepted by Iraqi aircraft, while all the others made it to target.

The drones flew over 500 kilometers (310 miles) at 630 km/h (390 mph), then began to circle Baghdad for up to 20 minutes. Iraqi air defense radars which probed for the drones were engaged by allied strike aircraft firing AGM-88 HARMs (High-speed Anti-Radiation Missiles). The Navy also launched ADM-141 TALDs (Tactical Air Launched Decoys) to contribute to the countermeasures blitz. Iraqi air defenses never recovered from this blow, and though large Allied aircraft losses had been predicted, the Iraqis only succeeded in shooting down 44 manned aircraft. After the war, the 4468th was disbanded, and one of the remaining BQM-74Cs was donated to the National Museum of the United States Air Force at Wright-Patterson AFB in Ohio, where it is now on display.

This author wrote these books about the subject.

https://www.amazon.com/No-One-Left-Behind-Speicher/dp/1885408862

And after it was published a lot of brass came forward to her with a lot of info and missing pieces, and had to write an updated version, I have both and they are very disturbing reads.

https://www.amazon.com/American-Bas...mp;qid=1556297274&s=books&sr=1-1

Here is a short interview with they author

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J2hgM94Mt0

And here is a longer interview.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwDoj-GtNJI

Dean

I ordered the book, but you know what, I'm not buying her story...
1. There are no TOP SECRET stuff on board an F/A-18 time 4:50
2. FA/18s routinely disengage from an attack run and go air to air. Lt. "Mongo" Mongillo did that and bagged a MiG
3. If she is quoting Admiral Johnson, that kinda lime mentioning CNN to me.
4. Not the first time blue on blue has happened and there is NO WAY we would sacrifice a man just to cover that up
5. The MiG 25 pilot has put pay to the friendly fire stuff.
There is more. This is a perfect example of circumstantial evidence weaved into a kook conspiracy.
Lastly, her closing comments she basically says he was sacrificed because of EGO on the part of the leadership, is total HORSEHIT. AS I said before, I happen to be very good friends with his room mate (we cruised on NIMITZ in 98 and this is all nonsense.

Jaysus, I hate civilians...

I doubt you will feel the same after you read the book, if you google her and read her bio she is quite an accomplished author and historian. I have communicated with her several times and she has told me all her info comes from several very reliable sources. That have been cross checked and verified and That they have came forward to her voluntarily, without her asking or even knowing they had anything to offer, and added that they info she was confided in was more like a confession and absolution, and that the truth would finally be told.

Dean

I know what I know Dean and I don't know this lady, but when inaccuracies come to light, it casts doubt on her story. I've contacted someone who was in the same squadron and with him and I'll get back to you.

Okie, "the Iraqis only succeeded in shooting down 44 manned aircraft," did I read that right?

1991 (Operation Desert Shield/Desert Storm)

Find sources: "List of combat losses of United States military aircraft since the Vietnam War" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR (August 2015) (Learn how and when to remove this template message)
Main article: Operation Desert Shield/Desert Storm
January 17 – An F/A-18C Hornet (Bureau Number : 163484) was shot down by an Iraqi Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-25 in an air-to-air engagement. The pilot (Lieutenant Commander Michael Scott Speicher) of VFA-81 was killed but his body was not found until July 2009.
January 17 – An A-6E Intruder (Bureau Number : 161668) was shot down by a surface-to-air missile. The pilot (Lieutenant Robert Wetzel) and navigator/bombardier (Lieutenant Jeffrey Norton Zaun) were captured. They were released on March 3.
January 17 – An F-15E Strike Eagle (Serial Number : 88-1689) was shot down by anti-aircraft artillery (AAA). The pilot (Major Thomas F. Koritz) and WSO (Lieutenant Colonel Donnie R. Holland) were killed. Their bodies were recovered.
January 18 – An A-6E Intruder (Bureau Number : 152928) was shot down by anti-aircraft artillery two miles from the Iraqi shore after dropping mines on a waterway linking the Iraqi naval base of Umm Qasr with the Persian Gulf. The pilot (Lieutenant William Thomas Costen) and navigator/bombardier (Lieutenant Charlie Turner) were killed. Their bodies were recovered.[8]
January 18 – An OV-10 Bronco (Bureau Number : 155435) was shot down by surface-to-air missile. The pilot (Lieutenant Colonel Clifford M. Acree) and observer (Chief Warrant Officer Guy L. Hunter Jr.) were captured. They were released on March 6.
January 18 – An F-4G Wild Weasel (Serial Number : 69-7571) crashed in the Saudi Arabian desert after attacking Iraqi air defenses. An investigation found that a single enemy 23 mm anti-aircraft artillery (AAA) round had punctured the fuel tank, causing fuel starvation. The pilot (Capt. Tim Burke) and EWO (Capt. Juan Galindez) ejected over friendly territory and were rescued.[9]
January 19 – An F-15E Strike Eagle (Serial Number : 88-1692) was shot down by a V-750AK (SA-2E) surface-to-air missile. The pilot (Colonel David W. Eberly) and WSO (Major Thomas E. Griffith) were captured. They were released on March 6 and March 3 respectively.
January 19 – An F-16C Fighting Falcon (Serial Number : 87-0228) was shot down by a 2K12 Kub (SA-6) surface-to-air missile. The pilot (Captain Harry 'Mike' Roberts) was captured. He was released on March 6.[10]
January 19 – An F-16C Fighting Falcon (Serial Number : 87-0257) was shot down by a S-125 (SA-3) surface-to-air missile. The pilot (Major Jeffrey Scott Tice) was captured. He was released on March 6.[11]
January 21 – An F-14A+ Tomcat (Bureau Number : 161430) was shot down by a V-750AK (SA-2E) surface-to-air missile while on an escort mission near Al Asad airbase in Iraq. The pilot (Lieutenant Devon Jones) was rescued by USAF Special Operations Forces but the RIO (Lieutenant Larry Slade) was captured. He remained a POW until his release on March 3.
January 24 – An AV-8B Harrier II (Bureau Number : 163518) was shot down by MANPADS. The pilot (Captain Michael C. Berryman) was captured. He was released on March 6.[12]
January 31 – An AC-130H Spectre (Serial Number : 69-6567) was shot down by a surface-to-air missile during the battle of Khafji. The entire crew of 14 were killed. Their bodies were recovered.
February 2 – An A-6E Intruder (Bureau Number : 155632) was shot down by anti-aircraft artillery (AAA). The pilot (Lieutenant Commander Barry T. Cooke) and navigator/bombardier (Lieutenant junior grade Patrick K. Connor) were killed. Connor's body was recovered and Cooke's body was never found (officially listed as KIA-BNR).
February 2 – An A-10A Thunderbolt II (Serial Number : 80-0248) was shot down by an Igla-1 (SA-16) surface-to-air missile. The pilot (Captain Richard Dale Storr) was captured. He was released on March 6.[13]
February 5 – An F/A-18A Hornet (Bureau Number : 163096) crashed in the Persian Gulf. The pilot (Lieutenant Robert Dwyer) was lost over the North Persian Gulf after a successful mission to Iraq. Dwyer served in Carrier Air Wing 8 (CVW-8). His body was never recovered (officially listed as KIA-BNR).[14]
February 9 – An AV-8B Harrier II (Bureau Number : 162081) was shot down by a surface-to-air missile. The pilot (Captain Russell A.C. Sanborn) was captured. He was released on March 6.
February 13 – An EF-111A, USAF ser. no. 66-0023, callsign Ratchet 75, crashed[15] into terrain while maneuvering to evade a missile fired by an enemy Mirage F1 fighter[16][17] killing the pilot, Capt Douglas L. Bradt, and the EWO, Capt Paul R. Eichenlaub.
February 15 – An A-10A Thunderbolt II (Serial Number : 78-0722) AAA ground fire 60 miles northwest of Kuwait city while attacking Republican Guard targets. Thought to have been engaged by SA-13 Gopher SAM. Pilot Lt Robert Sweet ejected and made POW; released on March 6.[18][19]
February 15 – An A-10A Thunderbolt II (Serial Number : 79-0130) Hit by ground fire approx 60 miles northwest of Kuwait city while attacking Republican Guard targets. Thought to have been engaged by SA-13 Gopher SAM. Pilot Captain Steven Phyllis killed in action. Phyllis died while protecting his downed wingman (1st Lieutenant Robert James Sweet). Phyllis' body was later recovered.[20]
February 19 – An OA-10A Thunderbolt II (Serial Number : 76-0543) was shot down by a Strela-1 (SA-9) surface-to-air missile 62 nm North West of Kuwait city. The pilot, Lt Col. Jeffery Fox (call sign "Nail 53"), was injured as he ejected, captured and held as a POW, until his release on March 6.[21]
February 22 – An A-10A Thunderbolt II (Serial Number : 79-0181) Wheels up, hard stick landing after being hit by a SAM. Captain Rich Biley brought 79-0181 in at King Khalid Military City, Forward Operating Location 1 where the CLSS team stripped it of parts, some sent to King Fahd International Airport, Main Operating Base for use on other birds, and then buried it in the desert. Biley was unhurt during the crash.[22]
February 23 – An AV-8B Harrier II (Bureau Number : 161573) crashed when it failed to recover from a high angle dive during a night attack on a tank park in Ali Al Salem, Kuwait, possibly hit by AAA or a MANPAD. The pilot (Captain James N. Wilbourn) was killed and his body was later recovered.
February 25 – An AV-8B Harrier II (Bureau Number : 163190) hit by MANPADS, crashed while trying to land at Al Jaber airfield, Kuwait. The pilot ejected safely.[23]
February 25 – An OV-10 Bronco (Bureau Number : 155424) was shot down by surface-to-air missile. The pilot (Major Joseph Small III) was captured and observer (Captain David Spellacy) was killed. Major Small was released on March 6 and Captain Spellacy's body was recovered.
February 27 – An AV-8B Harrier II (Bureau Number : 162740) was shot down by MANPADS. The pilot (Captain Reginald Underwood) was killed and his body was later recovered.[24]
February 27 – An OA-10A Thunderbolt II (Serial Number : 77-0197) crashed killing pilot Lieutenant Patrick Olson (posthumously promoted to Captain) after a reconnaissance mission over Kuwait on 27 Feb 1991, call sign Nail 51. Aircraft had been hit by surface-to-air missile and was attempting a landing at KKMC FOL in Manual Reversion after losing all its hydraulics, in extreme weather conditions and with only one engine.[25]
February 27 – An F-16C Fighting Falcon (Serial Number : 84-1390) was shot down by an Igla-1 (SA-16) MANPADS. The pilot (Captain William Andrews) was captured. He was released on March 6.[26]

So, where was his body found ? Close to the airplane or in a gulag somewhere ?

kwg

Watch the video you will find it interesting and it will answer most of your questions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J2hgM94Mt0

Dean

Supposedly tube tech is significantly less affected by an EMP versus all the new solid state stuff...

Sing it, Brother. There are so many cases of editing or even poetic license to alter the real story.

Buddy of mine, Captain Dino ( Machine) Peros, VMA-311 new three out of five of the AV-8B pilots that were shot down, Captain Berryman (RAZ) VMA-311 was the first he was shot down by SA-6 Gaskin. Reggie Underwood and Trey Wilbourne from East Coast squadron, VMA -223 bulldogs, Both killed. Dino flew, I believe three missions in the battle of KHAFJI , That was hot, tons of AAA, surface to air. He flew a total of 48? combat missions,Amazing stories.

Tag

So a little bit of Marine Corps aviation history, who was the first to drop ordinance during wartime out of the AV-8B Harrier ll? I asked Dino

I was the 4th in the very first attack on Jan17 1991. The first bomb was dropped by Cary Branch, C/S STUMP..followed by PUGS, BEANS, & MACHINE ( I'm Machine 🤗). Show you the archive when were together next next🛩

Bump. Damn!!

So, what happened to the Iraqi pilot? I assume he had a second missile too. What happened with that?

I had never seen a list of losses and was surprised that there were as many as there were. We here at home were certainly shielded from the losses we incurred. Thank you for the information.