Even if a guy doesn't own, desire to own, or even hates the Creed for whatever reason......you'd think people would catch on to the FACT that the 6.5CM is for real.
I very much agree, although you can take a good thing too far. I saw a line in a magazine just today, where the author was reviewing an AR in 6.5CM and an inset photo showed a Creedmoor round, a .308 round, and a .223 round with the caption "The 7.62 and 5.56 work "okay" on hogs but the 6.5 Creedmoor is deadly!" I found that kind of funny. The Creedmoor is very good for what it is, but to say that it is a decisively better swine killer than a .308 is reaching a little far, and I've shot a fair number of hogs with the 6.5 and 7.62. The whiz-bang, golly-gee enthusiasm can get a bit thick sometimes, even for us rifle loonies....
Yeah, that's stepping over the line.
To say the Creed will kill a hog deader, quicker than a .308, or a .223 is crazy...
But, that's how urban legends are perpetrated.
DF
Agreed. I does help to have some personal experience so you know when to raise the BS flag. You'd think folks around here would catch on to that theory, but in reading this thread, and practically any CM thread, that is not the case.
Yep, I've killed hogs with all three rounds, all just as dead...
Hogs couldn't tell the difference, no complaints from any of them...
It was not until I moved out West in 1990 that I had access to a lot of .270 users. From their accounts, the mule deer and elk I saw in their p/u beds, meat packing plants, in the field, it was just as deadly ( meaning no difference in results) as the 30-06 and 7mm Rem Mag, which are also very popular.
I like what one fellow wrote..."if you have a .280, you have a .270; if you have a .270, you have a .280". ha I would throw in the 30-06/7mm Mags too.
I mean for overall, deer with an occasional elk. Of course, times have changed, as they should after decades. I've read C.B. through the years ( he was a 2nd Louie then) and I never understood "why" he would always say then that the .270 was "marginal" and he would not use it on elk ( or even big Northern Whitetail)
So, I'm glad to see that he finally gave it a chance. For myself, I found I preferred the 6.5s (mine was the 6.5/284)with 120-125gr going around 3200 to be "perfection on deer & exotics" , and have never used anything heavier in that caliber. That's .270 ballistics. While I have had many .270s through the years, I never really 'wrung it out" like I have others. I may never use it on elk myself, but I will take it as a spare to my .338WM. For me, I just like bigger rounds on big animals...its just a thing for me. I hunt with guys who use the .270, .338 Federal, 308 & 30-06, 7mm Mag and one 300 RUM. What a spread, ha.
Originally Posted by jwall
On another level, I’ve said this before :
“If you have a 270, you have a 280; If you have a 280, you have a 270 “
Thank you, Thank you very much !
That was on P 2 -->--> you actually did something many don't.... read all this thread.
I agree with your last pp as well. The 7 RM has become about my MOST fav round. Most rounds (cartridges) will kill the game we hunt WITH proper bullets & placements.
I like the Faster cartridges for Flatter Trajectory.......> not that they kill any better.
In rural Alaska many residents have only a handful of weapons. Those with 270's are usually old and scarred as it's their primary rifle for wolves,caribou,moose, and brown bear. Probably the 150gr Core-Lok has killed as many brown bears in the hands of residents as the fabled 338 Win Mag, or at least in the Bristol Bay region.
I guess that the fact that they are old would indicate that the .270s have kept them from being killed, but the fact that they are scarred might indicate that the .270s haven't totally protected them.
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)
Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
Thanks to the miracles of twist rate and resulting bullet supply, 6.5CM stomps factory .270 for larger game and longer range despite a smaller case. There's simply no way to get as much sectional density in a factory .270 Win, and essentially no hunting bullets intended for fast twist .277s.
The .270 case is an impediment too - too much taper, too shallow a shoulder.
In a custom .270 WSM with a fast twist, the 180gr Weldcore is an excellent bullet but you're pretty much dependent on that one bullet for a high-SD premium spire point.
I think one reason for American hunters side stepping the 6.5x55 for years was due to the fact that no American firearms manufacturer chambered rifles for it until the 1980s and until then the only available commercial ammunition was Norma and occasionally CIL and/or RWS. Prior to the 1980s, the only rifles that I ever saw chambered in 6.5x55 were surplus Norwegian Krags and Swedish Mausers. The 6.5 Creedmoor is the first commercial 6.5mm bore cartridge to be embraced by American shooters. The 256 Newton, 264 WinMag, 6.5 RemMag, and 260 Rem never captured market share anything like the 6.5 Creedmoor has.
Jeff,
Good observations about the 6.5x55.
One other factor is the throat length in 6.5x55 rifles has varied considerably, just as it has in some other older cartridges that were originally designed around long, round-nosed bullets. 6.5x55 throats were VERY long throughout much of the 20th century, mostly due to the influence of military Mausers and Krags. They started shortening up after World War Two, but weren't very consistent. Present SAAMI and CIP throat lengths are much shorter. This is another reason, aside from action strength, that 6.5x55 factory ammo and handloading data varies so much--and why the 6.5x55 has never become as popular among hunters as later 6.5's.
In fact, even in Norway (which co-developed the round with Sweden) the 6.5x55 is nearly as popular among hunters as most Americans believe. I hunted red deer in Norway in 1996, and the hunting mostly involved big drives in mountainous country with LOTS of participants. Since most Norwegians speak excellent English (its apparently a mandatory subject in their schools) I got to talk about hunting and guns quite a bit with probably two dozen hunters. The most popular chambering among their rifles was the .308 Winchester, and in fact one of the several sporting goods stores I visited had a barrel full of a less-expensive model of the Remington 700 apparently made specifically for selling in Europe--all .308's. In fact only one of my hunting companions carried a 6.5x55.
I have noticed that the 6.5x55 doesn't appear to have been as popular in Sweden as one might think. Most of the used Husqvarnas that Simpson, LTD. in Galesburg, IL, imports are chambered in 30-06, 8x57, and 9.3x57, only a very few in 6.5x55. You would think that if the 6.5x55 was popular, a larger portion of the Simpson imports would be chambered for it.
My first 6.5x55 was a Swedish 1894 carbine that Interarms imported as their Model G33/50. My Father bought 2 of them at the S.S. Kresge in Claremont, NH, in 1964. I remember this because we had gone to Claremont to see Mary Poppins and since my Father worked for the USAF and was gone more he was home, it was a special event to have the family together. He kept 1 original and had Creighton Audette change the bolt handle, safety, trigger, and d&t for a Redfield Junior base. It had a Lyman Alaskan mounted the last time that I saw it, sometime in the mid-1990's. It was a neat little gun that hung over the back door, next to an old Savage 24 22M/20. My Mother used it to shoot animals that got into her heritage apple orchard.
The 6.5x55 has declined in popularity in Europe, and never caught on here, but it has been used more than enough to understand its capabilities and it does well on large game with 150+gr bullets, which is perfectly consistent with the fact that sectional density drives penetration.
I happen to know the author very well, and he's a real rifle loony, who owns a bunch in a LOT of different chamberings. Which, of course, I do as well. In fact since 2010, when I purchased and hunted with my first 6.5 Creedmoor, I've hunted big game with my other rifles in .22-250, .257 Roberts, .25-06, .257 Weatherby Magnum, 6.5x54 Mannlicher-Schoenauer, .260 Remington, 6.5x55, 6.5x57R, 6.5 PRC, 26 Nosler, .270 Winchester, 7x57, 7mm Weatherby Magnum,.308 Winchester, .30-06, 338 Winchester Magnum, 9.3x62 Mauser, and .416 Rigby. I've only sold two of those rifles, a .25-06 Ruger No. 1 and a 7mm Weatherby Mark V Ultra Lightweight, mostly because I enjoyed hunting more with other rifles of the same bore-size.
I may or may not hunt with my present 6.5 Creedmoor this year, in fact probably won't, because there's always something new I want to try--or go back to. But unlike so many 6.5 Creedmoor critics, I've actually shot and hunted with one, so along with my continuing experience with other rounds have some basis for evaluating what the Creedmoor actually does.
M D - Obviously I can't One Up You, being a G W and having hunts, rifles, ammo, etc. provided to you.>> JOKING.
I have killed WT with quite a few cartridges. When I had a 223 - it WAS NOT legal for deer hunting.
I have killed WT with 243 W, - 6mm R,- 6.5X55 (? creed ? ),- 270,- 284 W. - 7mm RM,- 30-30,- 308,- 30-06,- 300 WM,- 8mm RM,- & 358 W.- & 44 RM SBHWK and - ? maybe another or 2 ? I even dispatched a doe which was hit by a car but unable to move with a 22 R F M.
I DON'T mean to brag, I don't know ANYONE personally who has killed WT with AS many cartridges as I -- no brag, really.
Yes, I agree, >> ALL deer died.
I used WW factory 140 ammo in the 6.5X55 > SO that's close to Creed performance.
I've posted this before --- I have an irrational affection for the 300 WM. I've always liked the looks of the round PLUS its velocities. IF I hunted more open territory than I do now, I'd hunt my 300 often, it's just not justified now.
The CLOSEST I've killed a WT was 12' (feet) with a 7 mm RM. I've killed a few +/- 400 yds >> ALL with 7 RM or 300 WM.
MAYBE this is an irrational affection too --- I just like FAST, FLAT shooting cartridges.
As stated earlier, this thread WAS about C B and the 270 W..................... so where are we ? That's my biggest gripe.
I've had a 700 ADL 270 Win for years and shot more than a few deer with it and owned a few other 270's too. Last fall I picked up a Mark X sporter that said PO Ackley on the barrel in 270 Win and zeroed it with $12/box Fed 130's with complete confidence that it would get the job done if I shot a deer with it. Those Feds were loaded with 130 gr Hi Shok flat based spitzers with about the same .34x BC that all the other brands feature too ,only been working for 90 years, they won't quit tomorrow either. Most of the factory 150g gr loads available from the majors aren't all that high a bc either yet the people who use them will swear by them, not at them. This winter I got a chance to pick up a new Savage 112FV 6.5 CM cabela's special fairly cheap and put a 4x16x first focal plane scope on it. I'll shoot it some and at LR. From what I can see there are a lot of high BC loads available for it in factory ammo ,more so than the 270 if that's what a guy needs to do(buy factory ammo). Couple weeks back at a gunshow I scored 400 150gr Nosler Solid Base 270 bullets for damn cheap price. Nosler's #2 has them listed with a .513 BC figure. Seems to me it won't be sucking air behind too many 6.5 bullets if my 270 barrels will keep them spinning fast enough. Hmmm guess I could really cheat and run them out of my 270 Weatherby Mag...… MB
" Cheapest velocity in the world comes from a long barrel and I sure do like them. MB "
There's simply no way to get as much sectional density in a factory .270 Win, and essentially no hunting bullets intended for fast twist .277s.
I remember WHEN sectional density was important OR more important than today >>> because of newer Controlled Expansion bullets. S D is a no. indicating the 'supposed' penetrating ability of bullets....
BUT with Controlled Expansion bullets, S D does NOT mean as much as it used to.
There are several examples of 'Light for Caliber' Controlled Expansion bullets pushed at HI velocities. They work too.
It's coming. 'The 6.5 Creedmoor, THE ideal plains game rifle"...
You might want to sit down and pour yourself something, but one of my PH friends also owns a big sporting goods store in Kimberley, South Africa, and reported to me last year that 80% of the new rifles he sells are 6.5 Creedmoors. Essentially the same thing was told to another Campfire member, RinB, at another RSA store. Apparently South Africans really like the round for culling plains game, and of course they do a lot of that, for the same reasons as many American hunters--affordable, accurate rifles and ammunition, fine accuracy and light recoil, which can indeed be a factor when shooting dozens of animals a day.
No way I'll take it over a 308 which is the standard down there and if anyone says the 308 has recoil, well....
PS: you realize my posts were tongue in cheek
Last edited by jorgeI; 04/29/19.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
There's simply no way to get as much sectional density in a factory .270 Win, and essentially no hunting bullets intended for fast twist .277s.
I remember WHEN sectional density was important OR more important than today >>> because of newer Controlled Expansion bullets. S D is a no. indicating the 'supposed' penetrating ability of bullets....
BUT with Controlled Expansion bullets, S D does NOT mean as much as it used to.
There are several examples of 'Light for Caliber' Controlled Expansion bullets pushed at HI velocities. They work too.
Jerry
You can change the bullet technology all you want, but for the same bullet design at two different sectional densities, the higher SD bullet will penetrate better.
There's just no equivalent to say the .264 160gr Weldcore for .277 that will run in a standard twist rifle. Woodleigh makes a .277 180gr Weldcore, and it's a great bullet, but useless in a factory .270Win.
The 6.5CM is a legitimate round to be having a hunting craze. It does something that wasn't readily available until now. Yes, you could get it from custom .277 or .264s on any number of cases, but the key word there was custom.
As an owner of five 6.5x55’s, I ‘m not surprised that folks are finding the Creedmore to be both enjoyable and effective. But at age 77, I don’t expect to buy one.
There's simply no way to get as much sectional density in a factory .270 Win, and essentially no hunting bullets intended for fast twist .277s.
I remember WHEN sectional density was important OR more important than today >>> because of newer Controlled Expansion bullets. S D is a no. indicating the 'supposed' penetrating ability of bullets....
BUT with Controlled Expansion bullets, S D does NOT mean as much as it used to.
There are several examples of 'Light for Caliber' Controlled Expansion bullets pushed at HI velocities. They work too.
Jerry
SD was isn’t nearly as important as many think. I’ve seen 458 mag 400 grain flat point mono metal solids out penetrate 500 grain lead core solids. Construction and nose shape are more important for penetration.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
Have owned a 6.5x55's and 260's since the late 1990's when I was in my 20's so know all about how well the small 6.5's work. Not planning on switching to the Creedmoor but if I was starting over I would probably get aboard the train since you can find left hand guns easily. Cheap factory ammo would be nice but I'm a handloader anyway so it doesn't matter personally. Oh and I also have a 270 Win that I really like too and have no plans of selling it, it just plain works well too. I have great loads featuring the 150 gr Ballistic Tip and 160 gr Partition that cover anything in this country but for fun I'm trying the new 140 gr Sierra TGK, pretty impressive at around 3000 fps or so. H 4831 sc is showing some real promise with them not surprisingly.
There's simply no way to get as much sectional density in a factory .270 Win, and essentially no hunting bullets intended for fast twist .277s.
I remember WHEN sectional density was important OR more important than today >>> because of newer Controlled Expansion bullets. S D is a no. indicating the 'supposed' penetrating ability of bullets....
BUT with Controlled Expansion bullets, S D does NOT mean as much as it used to.
There are several examples of 'Light for Caliber' Controlled Expansion bullets pushed at HI velocities. They work too.
Jerry
SD was isn’t nearly as important as many think. I’ve seen 458 mag 400 grain flat point mono metal solids out penetrate 500 grain lead core solids. Construction and nose shape are more important for penetration.
THIS. I can tell you a 180gr TTSX will out penetrate a 220gr cup and core (in a 30 cal) ALL DAY LONG. But wow, a thread about the 270 WCF and 90% devoted to the Creedmoor...
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
SD was isn’t nearly as important as many think. I’ve seen 458 mag 400 grain flat point mono metal solids out penetrate 500 grain lead core solids. Construction and nose shape are more important for penetration.
Thumbs UP !
BACK WHEN - Any 'longer' bullet in the same caliber had a higher SD, regardless of construction -- therefore SD was UNreliable per penetration.
In THIS discussion I didn't print it but was 'thinking' in practical terms, A Lighter bullet with Controlled Expansion yields 'more' than sufficient penetration. After certain distance..... you don't need any more penetration.
OTOH if you have 2 bullets of the same weight in the same caliber >> a controlled expansion bullet will OUT penetrate a standard C/C.
We, all of us, could lose ourselves in a discussion of 'semantics'.
SD was isn’t nearly as important as many think. I’ve seen 458 mag 400 grain flat point mono metal solids out penetrate 500 grain lead core solids. Construction and nose shape are more important for penetration.
THIS. I can tell you a 180gr TTSX will out penetrate a 220gr cup and core (in a 30 cal) ALL DAY LONG.
***** But wow, a thread about the 270 WCF and 90% devoted to the Creedmoor...*****
