I have killed WT with 243 W, - 6mm R,- 6.5X55 (? creed ? ),- 270,- 284 W. - 7mm RM,- 30-30,- 308,- 30-06,- 300 WM,- 8mm RM,- & 358 W.- & 44 RM SBHWK and - ? maybe another or 2 ? I even dispatched a doe which was hit by a car but unable to move with a 22 R F M.
I used WW factory 140 ammo in the 6.5X55 > SO that's close to Creed performance.
As stated earlier, this thread WAS about C B and the 270 W..................... so where are we ? That's my biggest gripe.
An ADDENDUM to my response to M D on P 17.
I need to ADD..... 54 Cal Mzldrs, all my WT killed with Mzld have been with 54 Cal.--- & an F 150 4X4 ! grin
Also IIRC I've killed 6 WT with the Swede, not just one.
There's simply no way to get as much sectional density in a factory .270 Win, and essentially no hunting bullets intended for fast twist .277s.
I remember WHEN sectional density was important OR more important than today >>> because of newer Controlled Expansion bullets. S D is a no. indicating the 'supposed' penetrating ability of bullets....
BUT with Controlled Expansion bullets, S D does NOT mean as much as it used to.
There are several examples of 'Light for Caliber' Controlled Expansion bullets pushed at HI velocities. They work too.
Jerry
SD was isn’t nearly as important as many think. I’ve seen 458 mag 400 grain flat point mono metal solids out penetrate 500 grain lead core solids. Construction and nose shape are more important for penetration.
You're correct about that, but solids and softs are very different. Not many solids being shot in .264 or .277.
A specific whitetail addendum to my list: Have taken whitetails with all the cartridges on your list except the 8mm RM and .44 Magnum--though instead of those have used the .338 Winchester Magnum and .45 "Long" Colt. My few muzzleloader whitetails have all been taken with .50 caliber.
In addition have taken whitetails with the .257 Roberts, .257 Roberts Ackley Improved, 6.5x57R, 7mm-08, 7x57, 7mm SAUM, .300 Savage, .300 H&H, .35 Remington and 20- and 12-gauge slug guns.
Probably have taken more whitetails with the .270 than any other cartridge, somewhere in the dozens, but have taken almost as many with the .243. Have also taken the majority of my whitetails here in Montana, but have been lucky enough to get a few in several other states, a couple of Canadian provinces, and the state of Sonora in Old Mexico.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
Also, before getting to excited about the expanding mono-metal bullets, they leave very narrow wound channels. So they penetrate OK, but have a nasty tendency to let your game run around for a while before it realizes its dead. That's not to say they're horrible or anything, but I'd rather get my penetration from a high-SD bullet like the Weldcore or Northfork bonded that will give you both deep penetration (so far 100% exits on elk with the .264 160gr Weldcore in a couple different 6.5s) and a wide wound.
There's just no equivalent to say the .264 160gr Weldcore for .277 that will run in a standard twist rifle. Woodleigh makes a .277 180gr Weldcore, and it's a great bullet, but useless in a factory .270Win..
It's interesting in theory but I think very few people would actually ever use 160 gr Weldcores in the 6.5 Creedmoor, or the 180 gr Weldcores in a 270 of any flavour. You don't need that heavy a bullet to hunt anything you'd want to hunt with a 6.5 Creedmoor or a 270. And personally, I would want to see a test between the 180 gr .277" Weldcore and the 140 gr .277" TSX...
I suspected you might have forgotten slugs! (I am old enough to have a little of the memory problem, but started keeping detailed hunting records decades ago, which helps!)
Am not surprised by the .35 Whelen either. While I haven't taken any whitetails with the Whelen, have taken a number of other kinds of deer with the 9.3x62, the "metric Whelen." It works very well, both in dropping them and not shooting up much meat.
Oh, and by the way, the reason the 6.5 Creedmoor got dragged into this thread is right there in the original post. Did you read it, or join in later based on the header for the thread? Which is pretty common on the Campfire.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
EDIT - yes I read all the thread -- but C B was focusing on the 270. He opened the door for all the Creed XXXX. EDIT
Yes I have records of deer kills by year & gun or caliber. They start in 1972 and are too many pages to go thru quickly. I can determine where I hunted, in what county or State.
What I didn’t do and wish I had was record, WX conditions, wind direction & estimated speed, barometer etc.
Since we have such a long season & generous bag limit I don’t have to hunt in heavy rain OR hi wind.
This thread, like so many others, proves how successful we have become as humans in that we have the time on our hands to expend 98% of our energy trying to solve 2% of a problem.
“Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them.” ― G. Orwell
"Why can't men kill big game with the same cartridges women and kids use?" _Eileen Clarke
"Unjust authority confers no obligation of obedience." - Alexander Hamilton
It's interesting in theory but I think very few people would actually ever use 160 gr Weldcores in the 6.5 Creedmoor
There's no reason not to - it's no different than the 6.5x55 that bullet was designed for. It's far and away the best bullet for elk, moose, and big plains antelope in the 6.5mm offering consistent pass through and a wide wound channel combined with a BC sufficient for long range use. If people choose not to use it, that's their own mistake.
And there's no usable equivalent in the .277 and never will be because of twist rate. Which is the whole point of this - the reasons the .277 bore diameter has become so inferior as cartridge and bullet technology has improved.
The 270 never caught on with long range because it burns a ton of slow fuel and is a barrel torch, at least in that line of work. Yes the 6 and 6.5-284 has its fans, but it has waned for the same reasons. A hunter can dial in his 270 without too many rounds and use the same barrel forever. A target shooter can roast a barrel in a season or two; it's similar to the 243 in this regard.
This simply isn't the reason.
For decades, NRA high power competition, aggregates at 200, 300, and 600 yards, required the use of the 30-06 cartridge. None others were allowed. So good boat tailed .308 diameter bullets were invented for match shooting, first the military's 173 grain bullet (originally developed to mazimize range by wlevating a machine gun instead of using artillery) and later Sierra's 168, 180, and 190 grain Match Kings.
1000 yard matches, however, had no cartridge limitations. Since good long range .308 caliber bullets were available, the logical step was to use faster 30 caliber cartridges, first the .300 H&H and later the .300 Winchester magnum.
A similar process in Europe yielded good boat tailed 6.5mm bullets of around 140 grains. So available long range target bullets were either 6.5mm or .308 inch. There were none in .25 or .270 caliber until much later.
A 14 grain difference in powder weight means abaloutely nothing, just as when .30 calibers were required for 1000 yard matches, the difference in capacity between a 30-06 and a .300 Magnum meant nothing.
Indy, my apologies, I was referring to Boddington's modern thoughts on LR competition, "it wasn't asked to". From a historical perspective, I agree with you
My point is, other than maybe a few 270 nuts, it will never be asked to, simply because most LR shooters today are gravitating towards shorter, more efficient cartridges, not longer ones, for the two reasons I posted. Sure, you can get seriously high BC numbers if the 270 got the attention of, say a 6 Dasher or 6.5 x47, but large numbers of shooters aren't going in that direction and are going away from 30 calibers for similar reasons.
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