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#13749837 - 04/17/19 Changing burn rates--Does QL give hints?  
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,849
fremont Offline
Campfire Ranger
fremont  Offline
Campfire Ranger

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,849
In other words, my M70 30-06 loves H4350 and 165 gr bullets. If I move to a 200 gr, does QL outline info (e.g., Barrel Time) about H4350's characteristics that would help narrow my search for a slower powder for this heavier bullet?

Real-world example: Moving up to the 200 AB and decided to try Hunter. Terrible groups; inconsistent. At 100 yards, I'd be getting 2"-3" groups from a rifle that consistently shoots < MOA. So, I'm guessing it's a no-go with Hunter. But, are there tips within QL from H4350 that would help direct me towards the best slower powder?

300 BP

#13750540 - 04/17/19 Re: Changing burn rates--Does QL give hints? [Re: fremont]  
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,266
RiverRider Online confused
Campfire Guide
RiverRider  Online Confused
Campfire Guide

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,266
North Texas
QL can be set up to deliver predictions for a particular barrel time, but it is up to the user to figure out what's safe and practical. It WILL NOT do your thinking for you.

Here is an example:


Code
Cartridge          : 6 mm AR
Bullet             : .243, 90, Nosler Accubond 56357
Useable Case Capaci: 31.772 grain H2O = 2.063 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.250 inch = 57.15 mm
Barrel Length      : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Barrel Time: 1.017 milliseconds
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

29 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 70%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Accurate 4064                      105.7     30.3     1.96    2872   100.0    57420    9410   1.017  
Accurate 2495                       99.9     28.6     1.85    2868   100.0    57962    9032   1.018  
Alliant Reloder-26                 116.7     36.7     2.38    2859    92.4    51365   11255   1.017  
Accurate 4350                      111.5     32.7     2.12    2851    95.2    53368   10137   1.017  
Alliant Reloder-17                 105.2     32.3     2.09    2851    96.6    51335   10435   1.017  
Alliant Reloder-16                 113.6     32.4     2.10    2849    95.9    51721   10259   1.017  
Norma 203 old                      104.1     30.8     2.00    2842    98.1    54965    9727   1.017  
Vihtavuori N550                    107.9     32.3     2.09    2837    94.8    53021   10130   1.017  
IMR 4895                           100.2     29.3     1.90    2834    97.1    54064    9799   1.017  
Alliant Reloder-23                 122.8     35.2     2.28    2834    95.4    51636   10418   1.017  
Accurate 2520                       96.7     29.9     1.93    2833    99.5    55346    9295   1.017  
Lovex D073.6 Match Rifle            98.9     29.9     1.93    2833    99.5    55346    9295   1.017  
IMR 3031                           100.8     27.6     1.79    2832   100.0    53404    9063   1.017  
Norma MRP                          117.1     35.8     2.32    2829    89.0    51770   10759   1.017  
Hodgdon BL-C2                       95.7     30.6     1.98    2829    98.1    54051    9675   1.017  
IMR 4831                           117.0     32.8     2.13    2827    95.2    53005    9890   1.017  
Norma URP                          110.8     32.1     2.08    2826    94.8    52398   10004   1.017  
Norma 203B                         101.6     29.8     1.93    2824    97.0    54178    9681   1.017  
Hodgdon CFE223                      94.5     30.8     2.00    2822    97.1    52611    9746   1.017  
Alliant Reloder-15                 101.0     29.6     1.92    2821    96.4    54196    9681   1.017  
Winchester 748                      92.6     29.2     1.89    2818    98.8    53107    9409   1.017  


Life Member NRA, Texas State Rifle Association, Second Amendment Foundation, & GOA

“Evil preaches tolerance until it is dominant, then it tries to silence good.”

― Charles J. Chaput
#13792070 - 05/03/19 Re: Changing burn rates--Does QL give hints? [Re: fremont]  
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 478
Llama_Bob Offline
Campfire Regular
Llama_Bob  Offline
Campfire Regular

Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 478
It doesn't really help you think about what's accurate. Barrel time is theoretically useful, but is no substitute for a velocity ladder followed by a seating depth ladder.

I would look at slower powders in the same series from ADI - so for example H4831 or H4831ssc.

Of course your problem with Hunter might have been seating depth or not being on a velocity node, in which case just switching powders isn't necessarily going to help.

#13888448 - 06/10/19 Re: Changing burn rates--Does QL give hints? [Re: Llama_Bob]  
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,386
Tejano Offline
Campfire Tracker
Tejano  Offline
Campfire Tracker

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,386
Out Yonder
Originally Posted by Llama_Bob


Of course your problem with Hunter might have been seating depth or not being on a velocity node, in which case just switching powders isn't necessarily going to help.


This some barrels will show a distinct preference for certain bullets or powder but the bullet and how it is seated is no. 1 for me, powder type a distant second.


Work up to 58 or 59 grains H4831 with the 200 grain bullet. This is JB's "Loads that Work" and seems to be almost universal. Then tweak seating depth to establish a baseline.

Hunter should work but the above load has been tested and can let you know what accuracy level you can get or if your rifle just does not like that bullet.


"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli

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