the 284 is cool for sure and an excellent design. my local shop has 284 ammo on hand and it is very tempting to build a rifle around a box of ammo. If it were me, I would pick the action of choice and send it off to it&d custom gun. they could send you back a new 284 in the barrel material and dimensions you desire for roughly $400. they have done three for me in the last 6 months. the latest was the 30-06 that can back 257 roy.
I don't have any 7-08AI loads available. But, you can get very close in comparing the two by adding about 5-10% to the standard 7-08 velocities comaping those to the standard 284 in your manual. The 284 velocities are very close to the 280 Rem, close enough for practical purposes.
My best SWAG is that they would be pretty much a wash.
The big diffs would be dependant on different lots of powder, different tubes etc more so than any big diff between rounds.
I would personally do the AI well b4 a 284 even though I do really get tickeled by the 284. But I've been there done that and bought the t-shirt and hope to go back.
But...I am a gun looney so one never knows. A while back I had the wet dream of taking a 7/08/Montana to a 284.
Later
Mark D
"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
I wanted to sneak a 284 into a K. 84M. It would feed but the action is just too small otherwise. While the 284 is a cute round its not all that special when held up to the light what with the rebated rim and its lack of popularity. If it must be a 7mm then the 7-08 is just fine for lightweights and the others will fill the longer actions.
I read that NULA discourages the 284 due to feeding problems?
Zander's had some Remington 7 stainless synthetics on close-out for $428 wholesale the last time that I looked. I bought 1 and installed it in a Remington 673 factory laminated stock, but haven't had time to play with it yet.
I have discussed the pros/cons of the common short action .284" bore cartridges off-line with 'Stick and he was of the opinion that there was about a 200 fps incrimental difference between each cartridge in the 7mm-08AI, 284, and 7mm SAUM sequence. Since he had rifles chambered for all 3 cartridges, I'd be will to accept his professional testimony on this issue.
Zander's had some Remington 7 stainless synthetics on close-out for $428 wholesale the last time that I looked. I bought 1 and installed it in a Remington 673 factory laminated stock, but haven't had time to play with it yet.
I have discussed the pros/cons of the common short action .284" bore cartridges off-line with 'Stick and he was of the opinion that there was about a 200 fps incrimental difference between each cartridge in the 7mm-08AI, 284, and 7mm SAUM sequence. Since he had rifles chambered for all 3 cartridges, I'd be will to accept his professional testimony on this issue.
Jeff
Please explain how there can be 200 fps between a 7-08AI and a 284?
Please explain how there can be 200 fps between a 7-08AI and a 284? [/quote]
I can't see that either. I'm betting it's going to be a wash at best between the AI and the 284. I have two 7-08's (22" and 24") and a 26" barreled 284 for my T/C Encore. My max load for 140 gr Nosler Accubond gets right at 3000 fps in the 24" barrel, 2940 fps in the 22" barrel. The 284 goes 3120 fps using another max listed load for the same bullet (Hogden lists 3079 fps for a 24" barrel with this load). Not really all that much difference when you consider the difference in barrel length - the 24" 7-08 is right there - the 284 also takes 6 gr more powder to reach that 70-80 fps advantage - usually not going to be worth it. However, when the weight of the bullet goes up to 150 gr TSX, the 284 starts generating some separation. Velocities right up to and just over 3000fps were obtained with the 26" 284 - all within the published load data limits - 2966 fps was the published velocity for this load. The pulished number is 120 fps more than I can get with the 24" 7-08. One thing to note is, Hodgdon now lists COLs for the 284 that are not going to work with most short actions. IMO, the only time the 284 is really going to do much more than a 7-08 is going to be when a Wyatt's box extender is used or, if one of the longer short actions (i.e., Winchester) is used. I bought that 284 barrel just to see how I liked the cartridge. I like the 284, but the 7-08 is pretty close to it. It does provide a little more confidence for use on larger game, and I will probably someday get one made. If you're looking for a mostly deer gun, but want to feel adequately gunned for that occasional elk hunt, then I'd pick the 284. Hope this helps.
"Blessed is the man whose wife is his best friend - especially if she likes to HUNT!"
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these."
284 would be normal dies, 7.08 AI specialty.... as much as I like the 6.5x284 round......Rebated rim hasn't hurt it one bit in 1000 yard shoots. So the case itself is ok. And will be no shortage of brass even if I have to neck up...
I suspect the 7.08 AI is gonna get the nod.... But I"m not done researching yet.
24 inch tube?
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
I'm probably wrong on that, as I am relying on my memory. Maybe it was a 200 fps difference between the 7mm-08 and 284. BFD. IIRC, the 7mm-08 has about 54 grains of H2O capacity, while the 7mm-08AI has about 58, and the 284 has about 66.
Edit: The only 7mm-08 rifles that I own are Savage 99Cs and they are too valuable to shoot, so I don't. I don't, never have, and never expect to own a 7mm-08AI. I currently have a dozen or so rifles in 284, but again they are mostly Savage 99s and I have very little interest in shooting them. The only 284 that I shoot regularly, which isn't too regular, is a stainless Remington 700 that was rechambered from 7mm-08 to 284 and installed in a 700 LSS MR stock.
I bought a used Clymer reamer for $30 and did the rechambering job myself. 'Gotta have some justification for paying rent for space to keep the Bridgeport mill and the Delta lathe.
Unlike some folks, I've never had a feeding problem with the 284 in a Remington 600/660/7/700/722 action. If I do, I stone the feed rails to smooth the sharp edges and then they feed quite nicely. The only rifles that I've ever had 284 feeding issues with were a few Winchester 100s, which would feed with some magazines but not with others that appeared to be exactly alike. That said, I'm sort of a 1 shot man, so the ability to cycle a full magazine as fast as I can work the bolt is lost on me.
I sincerely wish the 'Stick could answer the 7mm-08 v. 7mm-08AI v. 284 v. 7mm SAUM questions for himself, but he can't and I'm not sufficiently motivated to dig up our correspondence on the issue.
Not sure if Melvin discourages getting the 284. I have read on several occasions his best seller for that length action.
To continue: A friend recently agonized over the 7-08 vs the 284 when he ordered his NULA. Melvin said unless my friend was willing to neck turn the 284 brass don't do it. 284 brass necks are a bit off and while they shoot quite well in sporter rifles I think a tiny bit of neck turning can make the neck tensions more consistent. Of course one could get some 6.5-284 norma and neck it up to solve that issue.
Why can't a 284 chamber take the factory brass or ammo? Lots of cases vary in other chamberings as well.
I don't see many ULA's here. A outdoor writer by the name of Hall had a ULA 284 in Vermont. It was his favorite rifle. At the time the light weight did not matter that much to me.
Looking in the dozen or so reloading books I had, I found that the AVERAGE increase in bullet speed between a 7mm-08 and a 284 to less than 100 fps, when similar barrel lengths were used.
I have a Remington Ti, and the idea was intriguing.
Then, for me, the cost factor, the difficulty getting brass easily, the fact it would be hard to get factory rounds if I wanted to, and most of all - the fact I can throw a bullet as fast as that difference, convinced me to leave well enough, alone.
It would amount to close to an an inch flatter trajectory - at 400 yards.
Everyone has different thoughts though.
Brian
Vernon BC Canada
"Nothing in life - can compare to seeing smiles on your children's faces."
FWIW In my 284, in R77LA, with 20" Shaw barrel, taper bored .0005", chrony 6' from muzzle, I get: 120BT / 52.5/RL15 / 3150 fps 139SP / 55.5/I4350 / 2900 fps 150NP / 49.5/RL15 / 2900 fps 160NP / 54.5/I4350 / 2850 fps For brass, get on the waiting list for 500 pcs (if not in stock)thru one of the outlets. I use 284 brass in 284 and 6.5x284 and have no problems---last lot received last fall. mrk
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." Albert Einstein
At Khe Sanh a sign read "For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the protected never knew".
Looking in the dozen or so reloading books I had, I found that the AVERAGE increase in bullet speed between a 7mm-08 and a 284 to less than 100 fps, when similar barrel lengths were used.
I have a Remington Ti, and the idea was intriguing.
Then, for me, the cost factor, the difficulty getting brass easily, the fact it would be hard to get factory rounds if I wanted to, and most of all - the fact I can throw a bullet as fast as that difference, convinced me to leave well enough, alone.
It would amount to close to an an inch flatter trajectory - at 400 yards.
Everyone has different thoughts though.
Yepper you pretty much covered my thoughts as well Brian.
Mark D
"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
A friend had a M7 barreled with a 23" Hart that was fluted and chambered for the 7mm-08 AI by his BR smith. The rifle shoots very small groups and the velocity is up there.
The 284 never got off the ground. The 7mm-08 is quite popular. This particular discussion was tangent with a 7mm-08AI vrs 284 comparison for a moment. To each his own.
Guys- two things. Most manuals are soft on the loads for 284 and a 284 case is within a few grains of a 280Rem capacity, basically the same. So do you think a 7-08 is within 100fps of a 280Rem?
But as for me and my house we will serve the Lord. Joshua 24:15 I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Phil. 4:13
