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Campfire Sage
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they have trouble saying that they believe the Allies had a higher moral standing and good reason to bomb- incinerate
women and children in European and Japanese cities, ..even the French cities with no German occupation.
Of course we had a higher moral standing. They wanted a fight, and they got it. As Bristoe said "That was smart."
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Campfire Sage
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Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Woa, LOTS of Teutonic Tit Willows, but I still think Dresden was criminal.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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they have trouble saying that they believe the Allies had a higher moral standing and good reason to bomb- incinerate
women and children in European and Japanese cities, ..even the French cities with no German occupation. Most of us have grown up believing that WW2 was not just the Allies versus the Axis, but good against evil. While we've all heard about the bad things the Germans and the Japanese did, and make no mistake about it, they did, we've been led to believe that our side was like the knight in shining armor, who rode to the rescue. While the history books are full of what the Axis powers did to innocent civilians, there's nary a word about anything the Allies did, and there are reasons for that. We can blame the Germans for killing Jews and anyone else they didn't like, and say it was wrong. But, we just can't bring ourselves to say that our practice of "strategic" bombing resulted in the killing of thousands of civilians who were every bit as innocent as those civilians the Nazis were killing. My biggest complaint about all of this has been the fact that the sins of Stalin and the Soviets have been swept under the rug, because they were on our side, and are rarely mentioned, while we are constantly reminded that we can't say anything negative about the Holocaust. There are a good many posters on here who will jump all over anyone who questions the account of the Holocaust, yet remain totally mum about ole Joe Stalin and what he did.......and it is pretty well documented that we KNEW what he was doing. This is one of those things that we all have differing opinions about, as to what did or didn't happen, and whether it can be considered right or wrong. I don't see anyone changing anyone else's mind. Gen. Curtis E. LeMay: There are no innocent civilians. It is their government and you are fighting a people, you are not trying to fight an armed force anymore. So it doesn't bother me so much to be killing the so-called innocent bystanders. So I see that you and the general agreed with the Germans on the Jewish question.
Last edited by JoeBob; 06/12/19.
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they have trouble saying that they believe the Allies had a higher moral standing and good reason to bomb- incinerate
women and children in European and Japanese cities, ..even the French cities with no German occupation. Most of us have grown up believing that WW2 was not just the Allies versus the Axis, but good against evil. While we've all heard about the bad things the Germans and the Japanese did, and make no mistake about it, they did, we've been led to believe that our side was like the knight in shining armor, who rode to the rescue. While the history books are full of what the Axis powers did to innocent civilians, there's nary a word about anything the Allies did, and there are reasons for that. We can blame the Germans for killing Jews and anyone else they didn't like, and say it was wrong. But, we just can't bring ourselves to say that our practice of "strategic" bombing resulted in the killing of thousands of civilians who were every bit as innocent as those civilians the Nazis were killing. My biggest complaint about all of this has been the fact that the sins of Stalin and the Soviets have been swept under the rug, because they were on our side, and are rarely mentioned, while we are constantly reminded that we can't say anything negative about the Holocaust. There are a good many posters on here who will jump all over anyone who questions the account of the Holocaust, yet remain totally mum about ole Joe Stalin and what he did.......and it is pretty well documented that we KNEW what he was doing. This is one of those things that we all have differing opinions about, as to what did or didn't happen, and whether it can be considered right or wrong. I don't see anyone changing anyone else's mind. Gen. Curtis E. LeMay: There are no innocent civilians. It is their government and you are fighting a people, you are not trying to fight an armed force anymore. So it doesn't bother me so much to be killing the so-called innocent bystanders. So I see that you and the general agreed with the Germans on the Jewish question. Haha......I can't wait to see his response to this.
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How can anyone connect approval of the Jewish genocide with condemnation of the bombing of Dresden? Does not compute.
Don't be the darkness.
America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.
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At the beginning of WW2, Germany's population was about 85 million people. The highest number of members the Nazi Party had was 8.5 million, so approximately 1 in every 10 Germans belonged to the Nazi Party. As far as the German military went, most were not members of the Nazi Party. So, yes, I think it's safe to say that were millions of innocent German civilians.
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Campfire Ranger
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How can anyone connect approval of the Jewish genocide with condemnation of the bombing of Dresden? Does not compute. I don't know that's what anyone is saying. The point that I, and others, have tried to make is that just as the Nazis sent innocent people to their deaths (the Jews, for instance), so did the Allies, in the form of the unnecessary bombing of German cities, and the turning a blind eye to what Stalin was doing. Is that so hard to see? If it is, then it's proof that the Jews and Communists succeeded in their attempt to whitewash things in order to make sure that the Holocaust is all that matters.
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Campfire Ranger
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they have trouble saying that they believe the Allies had a higher moral standing and good reason to bomb- incinerate
women and children in European and Japanese cities, ..even the French cities with no German occupation. Most of us have grown up believing that WW2 was not just the Allies versus the Axis, but good against evil. While we've all heard about the bad things the Germans and the Japanese did, and make no mistake about it, they did, we've been led to believe that our side was like the knight in shining armor, who rode to the rescue. While the history books are full of what the Axis powers did to innocent civilians, there's nary a word about anything the Allies did, and there are reasons for that. We can blame the Germans for killing Jews and anyone else they didn't like, and say it was wrong. But, we just can't bring ourselves to say that our practice of "strategic" bombing resulted in the killing of thousands of civilians who were every bit as innocent as those civilians the Nazis were killing. My biggest complaint about all of this has been the fact that the sins of Stalin and the Soviets have been swept under the rug, because they were on our side, and are rarely mentioned, while we are constantly reminded that we can't say anything negative about the Holocaust. There are a good many posters on here who will jump all over anyone who questions the account of the Holocaust, yet remain totally mum about ole Joe Stalin and what he did.......and it is pretty well documented that we KNEW what he was doing. This is one of those things that we all have differing opinions about, as to what did or didn't happen, and whether it can be considered right or wrong. I don't see anyone changing anyone else's mind. Gen. Curtis E. LeMay: There are no innocent civilians. It is their government and you are fighting a people, you are not trying to fight an armed force anymore. So it doesn't bother me so much to be killing the so-called innocent bystanders. So I see that you and the general agreed with the Germans on the Jewish question. I do not see any connection with the Jewish question and LeMay?? Gen. Curtis LeMay: If you kill enough of them, they stop fighting. We’re at war with Japan. We were attacked by Japan. Do you want to kill Japanese, or would you rather have Americans killed?
Leo of the Land of Dyr
NRA FOR LIFE
I MISS SARAH
“In Trump We Trust.” Right????
SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."
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How can anyone connect approval of the Jewish genocide with condemnation of the bombing of Dresden? Does not compute. The NAZIS believed that they were at war with something they called international Jewry. As such, like LeMay and some on this board they did not believe in the concept of innocents. Since there were no innocents, they set about eliminating those they felt were their enemies.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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At the beginning of WW2, Germany's population was about 85 million people. The highest number of members the Nazi Party had was 8.5 million, so approximately 1 in every 10 Germans belonged to the Nazi Party. As far as the German military went, most were not members of the Nazi Party.
So, yes, I think it's safe to say that were millions of innocent German civilians.
Hey James, Q: What do you call a German with no limbs and no head? A: Guilty.
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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The NAZIS believed that they were at war with something they called international Jewry. As such, like LeMay and some on this board they did not believe in the concept of innocents. Since there were no innocents, they set about eliminating those they felt were their enemies.
Sherman and Grant had the same idea about the south. They were right.
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Dec 2013
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Campfire Outfitter
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The NAZIS believed that they were at war with something they called international Jewry. As such, like LeMay and some on this board they did not believe in the concept of innocents. Since there were no innocents, they set about eliminating those they felt were their enemies.
Sherman and Grant had the same idea about the south. They were right. Just as long as everyone understands that you agree with the NAZIS.
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One point that seems to be lost is that in warfare the object is to destroy the enemy's will and capacity to conduct warfare and sustain resistance, while the object of genocide is to exterminate an ethnic group. Why the difference is so hard to grasp is beyond me.
The Allies were not trying to exterminate Germans, they were trying to militarily defeat them. The Nazis were indeed engaged in a campaign to exterminate the Jews. Had the Third Reich survived and succeeded in their plans, there is no doubt that campaign would have continued in order to accomplish their Final Solution.
Bombing German industrial centers did result in civilian deaths, but that was in NO WAY as heinous as the systematic genocide the Germans were conducting.
Don't be the darkness.
America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.
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Campfire Tracker
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One death is a tragedy; one million is a statistic. - Joseph Stalin
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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One point that seems to be lost is that in warfare the object is to destroy the enemy's will and capacity to conduct warfare and sustain resistance, while the object of genocide is to exterminate an ethnic group. Why the difference is so hard to grasp is beyond me.
The Allies were not trying to exterminate Germans, they were trying to militarily defeat them. The Nazis were indeed engaged in a campaign to exterminate the Jews. Had the Third Reich survived and succeeded in their plans, there is no doubt that campaign would have continued in order to accomplish their Final Solution.
Bombing German industrial centers did result in civilian deaths, but that was in NO WAY as heinous as the systematic genocide the Germans were conducting.
Some do not want to determine the difference...Doesn't fit in their KOTY world.
Leo of the Land of Dyr
NRA FOR LIFE
I MISS SARAH
“In Trump We Trust.” Right????
SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."
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Campfire Ranger
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Does anyone think for one minute that the Germans or the Japanese would have hesitated for a moment to level all of Seattle Wa, home of Boeing.
Or any other city involved in production of war materials?
The only thing which saved American cities from destruction by bombers was 1000s of miles of ocean and no bombers capable of reaching us.
Likewise every German and Japanese adult civilian was contributing to the war effort of their respective nation.
From the farmers growing food to feed soldiers and factory workers, to the men and women turning bolts on the assembly lines where the tanks and trucks are built. There are no innocent civilians in a nation at war.
No, I have no problem with the bombing of Dresden, or Berlin, or any of the many Japanese cities leveled by fire bombing, or even Horoshima and Nagasaki.
Every dictator needs a target to aim the hatred of his people toward. America's left is using gun owners and the wealthy as targets.
Hitler used the Jews, with the added benefit that he was able to steal all of their wealth to drive his war effort.
What happened to the Jews was not warfare, and it sure as hell was not defense of home and nation.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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IdahoShooter, Good post and you are correct about nations at war. American POW’s of the Japs were spit on, taunted and worse by Jap civilians including school aged children. They’d have been perfectly happy inflicting pain or death upon our POW’s if given the chance. Their superiority complex was rivaled only by the nazis.
One didn’t need to be a card carrying member of the Nazi Party to support them. Many many Germans supported the Nazis but weren’t “in the Nazi Party”.
JoeBob, Are you afraid to answer my question? Would your honest answer embarrass you?
�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.
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~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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JoeBob, I agree that “it wasn’t many” that were gassed, hung, shot or otherwise murdered at Dachau, it wasn’t the type of camp that Treblinka was but it is a good and living representation of the atrocities that happened albeit on a much smaller and more “civilized” scale. 😉
I can tell you that being there was an extraordinarily moving experience for me and I don’t have any personal affection for Jews, gypsies or homosexuals.. My affections are for humanity and to that extent I’m not ashamed to admit that I cried. No innocent person of any religion or persuasion should suffer the kind inhumanity that those camps brought down upon them.
Oftentimes when discussing this atrocity we focus on those that died there and forget about those that survived. Those that were raped, starved and tortured or those that survived the horrors of their experiments are considered “lucky”. The pain that the living and dead suffered is beyond my comprehension as is my ability to understand how one human being can to do such grotesque things to another human being. God forbid you were a child with a twin brother or sister, your short life would likely end slowly and painfully.
I’ve been there. It’s a few miles from Munich. Did it not move you? What emotions, if any, did you feel? It’s a fair question and based upon your posts on this thread I think we all know what your answer would be but it’s only fair to give you the opportunity to answer it for yourself.
�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.
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~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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