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Joined: Jun 2003
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 Likes: 1 |
Unless it's a Luger or a 1911, everything else feels like a club or a 2X4.. Curious, why did you stop shooting after World War One? Was there sarcasm there, or a lack of reading comprehension? I should have added Colt SAA and really made it retro...
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,509
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,509 |
Unless it's a Luger or a 1911, everything else feels like a club or a 2X4.. My Browning P35 resembles that remark!
Old guy, old guns.
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,523
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,523 |
Unless it's a Luger or a 1911, everything else feels like a club or a 2X4.. Curious, why did you stop shooting after World War One? Was there sarcasm there, or a lack of reading comprehension? I should have added Colt SAA and really made it retro... EE did that for you. If I can find my time machine I'll send it back for you two. 😄
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 Likes: 1 |
Unless it's a Luger or a 1911, everything else feels like a club or a 2X4.. My Browning P35 resembles that remark! Yes, just a bit too thick with the double stack mag.. Lovely gun though..
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274 |
Shooting 1911's recently - a Les Baer and a Kimber 10mm. The Kimber has a short trigger I fitted years ago. The Baer is stock with a long trigger, and probably a better made pistol. I was astonished at how much better I shot the Kimber. I had significantly fewer left to right flyers. Both guns feel fine, but the Baer will get a new, short trigger.
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,531
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,531 |
There are a lot of illogical influences that inhibit an individual from selecting equipment that best suits their needs. Operator delusions, Fad Foolishness, Gear-Queerness, Tac-Tardness and outright Fuddness are just a few. I saw them all in 25 years. Luckily in my case, there were equipment and performance standards in place to limit the foolishness.
Particularly later in my career as a LE FTO, there were almost no limits on the size and strength of the people I had to bring up to those standards. Feel and Fit are two different things. Fit is the one that affects results on target.
Last edited by SargeMO; 06/25/19.
Direct Impingement is the Fart Joke of military rifle operating systems. ⓒ
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653 |
I've tried two sets of grips on two different pistols recently and made some initial changes based on how the gun felt in hand.
The first was a Walther Q5. The large grip that comes with the Q5 is ridiculously uncomfortable and completely unsuitable for the human hand. It hurts to grip it hard. So I put on the medium grip on, which felt great, and started shooting. But the recoil was really erratic. Switching to the large grip made was less comfortable, but with it the dot tracked directly up and down very predictably.
And I had a similar situation with an M&P 2.0. The 1.0 medium grips are too thin for me so I've always used the 1.0 large grip, even though it feels too large for me. The new 2.0s have a medium-large grip that has the same depth as the medium with the palm swell of the large. It feels like Moses brought it down off a mountain just for my hand. But in use the large grip positions my trigger finger more appropriately and I'm less likely to push the gun around during the trigger press, even though it "feels" less comfortable.
Stuff like this is one of the big reasons I hate hearing "just see which one feels best" when selecting new guns. How it feels isn't as important as how it shoots. And the two don't always have a positive correlation. Blue how hard of a grip do you use? I grip almost every defensive gun with an absolute death grip. It’s never really comfortable form me as much as it is awkward/less awkward. Right or wrong its how I have learned to shoot fast and accurately. Take for instance Glocks with and without finger groves. It virtually doesn’t matter which one I have, the finger groves “disappear” figuratively Crush grip I give. Conversely I have a more organic approach to grip when it comes to hunting handguns where my focus isn’t on the balance speed and accuracy. With my support hand I grip as tight as I can. With my strong hand I grip as tight as I can and still avoid trigger freeze.
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653 |
I have no idea what an imaginary scenario in 1870 has to do with anything. But if I were that guy the correct answer would still be to actually shoot the thing and make decisions off of hits rather than feelings. Nice sarcasm. Here's another one to gig: Neither the Schofield nor the SAA were around in 1870, so the scenario truly would be imaginary unless you were in The Comancheros. I've owned and shot both guns. About the same accuracy. The Schofield is a little more delicate over the long haul. You couldn't tell that by shooting it a couple of times. The SAA is slower to reload. In the end, the SAA feels better and many would make the decision based on that. Same thing if you had a Glock and an M&P at the range testing them. About the same...so why not make a decision based on feel. I disagree that you are making a decision based on feelings. "Feel" may be sort of subjective, which is what I guess you're saying when you say "feelings" but it isn't a decision based on emotions really. It's how the gun feels in your hand. I will say that I've been about ready to cry after shooting some guns, but that was due to recoil hurting my hand as opposed to...say it bringing up feelings of despair or the like. Anyway, try very hard in an objective scenario to not consider how the gun feels if you wish. You have my blessings. That wasn’t sarcasm. I legitimately don’t understand what your incoherent ramblings about how delicate a Schoffield are have to do with our conversations. And I will continue to try to objectively choose a gun based on how the gun performs rather than how it feels in my hand. I have two examples in my original post about how the feel of the gun in hand didn’t positively correlate to its performance. And both times I chose performance over feel.
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,898
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,898 |
Stuff like this is one of the big reasons I hate hearing "just see which one feels best" when selecting new guns. How it feels isn't as important as how it shoots. And the two don't always have a positive correlation.
The sucky thing is that with gun purchasing, there's not often a "try before you buy" option, unless the buyer has access to a range that will rent the exact gun they're looking to purchase, or has a friend with the gun they're looking to buy, and will let them give it a test drive. It would really suck if we couldn't test drive a new vehicle before purchase, but with guns we mostly take it for granted.
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,257
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,257 |
Stuff like this is one of the big reasons I hate hearing "just see which one feels best" when selecting new guns. How it feels isn't as important as how it shoots. And the two don't always have a positive correlation.
The sucky thing is that with gun purchasing, there's not often a "try before you buy" option, unless the buyer has access to a range that will rent the exact gun they're looking to purchase, or has a friend with the gun they're looking to buy, and will let them give it a test drive. It would really suck if we couldn't test drive a new vehicle before purchase, but with guns we mostly take it for granted. Even new vehicle test drives don't tell us much about the performace or fit of a car. We all know how this goes with holsters. We buy and try, and throw some in The Box. With cars, you're stuck with the big depreciation. With good holsters and with guns, resale isn't such a loss. If you have to buy to try, at least get the best price you can in both directions. But don't marry a gun that doesn't fit.
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 Likes: 1 |
[And both times I chose performance over feel. Performance is described as? Not being a smart ass but trying to parse out reliability and for example magazine capacity as a function of performance.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 491
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 491 |
I won't mention the make/caliber,but I picked one up in a pawn shop and was sold as soon as my hand curled around the grip.I admit to having less experience than a lot you posting here,but that weapon really spoke to me so for me "feel" was important.
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,253 Likes: 2
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,253 Likes: 2 |
'How it feels' changes for me with use, after mostly shooting 1911's for years, I started with my p226, then a gen4 m21, after awhile they both felt great, I shoot the Sig more accurately because I think it's a more accurate pistol than my Glock, just center punched the shoulders of a garden bunny the other day with a 200gr xtp at 22 yards with the sig, that's pretty good shooting for me.
Trump Won!
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,771 Likes: 20
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,771 Likes: 20 |
Initial feel in the hand isn't half as important as most people seem to think. 95% of shooting a gun well is learning the gun, not how it felt when you were in the gun store and holding it.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,771 Likes: 20
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,771 Likes: 20 |
Unless it's a Luger or a 1911, everything else feels like a club or a 2X4.. It depends on the person. Almost everybody likes the feel of a Colt SAA. Lots of people used to NOT like the feel of a 1911. I've noticed quite a few people lately claim to like one, since Glock has pretty much taken over the semi-auto handgun market for serious purposes. Personally I really like how a 1911 handles but I'm sure that's because it was one of the guns I had the most experience handling, early on in my young life. Yep, handle most popular guns long enough, and they just feel right in the hand and come to point "naturally."
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,771 Likes: 20
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,771 Likes: 20 |
Even new vehicle test drives don't tell us much about the performace or fit of a car. We all know how this goes with holsters. We buy and try, and throw some in The Box. With cars, you're stuck with the big depreciation. With good holsters and with guns, resale isn't such a loss. If you have to buy to try, at least get the best price you can in both directions. But don't marry a gun that doesn't fit.
Like.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,863 Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,863 Likes: 4 |
Unless it's a Luger or a 1911, everything else feels like a club or a 2X4.. A friend's Luger that I shot was the most natural pointing handgun I can remember ever trying. Good thing too because the sights were crap.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,771 Likes: 20
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,771 Likes: 20 |
Unless it's a Luger or a 1911, everything else feels like a club or a 2X4.. A friend's Luger that I shot was the most natural pointing handgun I can remember ever trying. Good thing too because the sights were crap. You'd probably like the Steyr M9, too. Similar grip angle to the Luger. ![[Linked Image]](https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/images/39219.jpg)
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,523
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,523 |
You'd probably like the Steyr M9, too. Similar grip angle to the Luger.
I can't believe you neglected to mention the exceptionally low bore axis. Definitely assists the actual shooting part of the equation.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,771 Likes: 20
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,771 Likes: 20 |
You'd probably like the Steyr M9, too. Similar grip angle to the Luger.
I can't believe you neglected to mention the exceptionally low bore axis. Definitely assists the actual shooting part of the equation. Yep, the M9 has a very low bore axis, permitting a super high grip.
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