Its for certain, certain geniuses cant distinguish the difference between truth and proof of fact.
Rimfire, i farted this AM. That is the truth, but yet a fact i cant prove.
People fart. Everybody farts. People make claims that may or may not be true.
Your claim that you farted is a very ordinary claim. As a result, the standards of evidence for such a claim are low.
In contrast, a universe making super natural being is a extraordinary claims, and this claim requires extraordinary evidence, yet you cannot offer anything that even qualifies as good evidence, let alone extraordinary.
Again science demands it on the basis of the need for an uncaused first cause, the anthropic principles of life, and the biological irreducible complexity of life. To reject God as the Intelligent designer is unscientific and based purely on prejudice.
The problem with atheism and skepticism is that the mind becomes enslaved by the will and emotion of the heart and cannot honestly examine the evidence. The skeptic and atheist refuse to believe that which their passions wish to reject and their cover is that they need more evidence. Yet they cannot produce any credible proof that God does not exist.
Intelligent design and irreducible complexity had their day in court and were thoroughly trashed by a Christian professional witness and a Republican appointed Judge:
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
If the complexity of Biology seems unlikely to have evolved, how much more complex is the existence of a Creator? If one requires a Creator, so does the other, ad infinitum.
How is the existence of a creator more complex? We recognize design as evidence of designers in our daily lives without puzzling over the novelty of that concept.
A creator must be able to think and act. These are not simple things. To create a universe is not a simple thing to do. To propose a Creator is not a solution to complexity, it just moves the goal post.
That just simply explains why the Creator must be all wise, all powerful, and all knowing like the Bible says. You can't escape the logic that a Creator is required and must be greater than Creation, and as such, doesn't need your permission or belief to exist.
And you can't escape the "Argument from ignorance" and "Argument from incredulity" fallacies.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Its for certain, certain geniuses cant distinguish the difference between truth and proof of fact.
Rimfire, i farted this AM. That is the truth, but yet a fact i cant prove.
People fart. Everybody farts. People make claims that may or may not be true.
Your claim that you farted is a very ordinary claim. As a result, the standards of evidence for such a claim are low.
In contrast, a universe making super natural being is a extraordinary claims, and this claim requires extraordinary evidence, yet you cannot offer anything that even qualifies as good evidence, let alone extraordinary.
Again science demands it on the basis of the need for an uncaused first cause, the anthropic principles of life, and the biological irreducible complexity of life. To reject God as the Intelligent designer is unscientific and based purely on prejudice.
The problem with atheism and skepticism is that the mind becomes enslaved by the will and emotion of the heart and cannot honestly examine the evidence. The skeptic and atheist refuse to believe that which their passions wish to reject and their cover is that they need more evidence. Yet they cannot produce any credible proof that God does not exist.
Irreducible complexity was put on trial. Both sides gave their evidence and arguments. The case irreducible complexity and intelligent design failed.
.... We as Christians want to tell others about the good news...
...If you knew that your child was heading for danger would you not warn him because of your love and foreknowledge?
Any reasonable parent [with all their transgressor faults] would not just warn their child, but would step-in and pull a child back or rescue them from imminent danger and even do the same for a strangers child....now human parents are not always right there on spot to prevent a child from all threats and imminent danger, ..but Christians say GOD is....yet how many kids get killed running onto the road and other fatal incidences and mishaps when that 'all loving' God is watching.?
Why does that God not step in when even good human parents with their fallibilities inevitably fall short?
God doesn't interfere cause he is testing the free will of those naive little kids?...or maybe he is punishing the transgressor parents by allowing the tragic but totally preventable death of their child?
Of course christians will 'send prayers' when they hear of such events, ..but why would anyone need to send prayers when it was Gods will that such children should lose their life.?...what are those prayers supposed to do that God hasn't already pre-determined and taken care of?
folks pray that the tsunami don't wash their house and family and only milking cow and plough bullock away, but when it does they pray for what they lost, then they start praying for God to make life better..?...yet 'evidently' He thought the survivors life is just how it is supposed to be [without all those things.]
Originally Posted by Jahrs
David had a very strong assurance of the presence God.
Well it seems if you love God you can (among other transgressions) conduct premeditated murder just to steal anothers wife, and still be considered a man after Gods own heart.
Yes you can be forgiven but there is a high cost to pay for it. David’s plan to cover up what he did failed and God exposed his sin through the prophet Nathan. He paid a huge price for the adultery and murder that he committed. He lost the kingdom and his family as well, the nation of Israel suffered too.
“No one in hell can ever say I went to Christ and He rejected me.
However most of the others you did not respond, but you claim to have proven they do not exist. You have not done that.
You have yet to even respond to my first example about the contradictions between God in the Old and God in the New Testament.
Below quoted from evidence demands a reason by Josh McDowell
Isn’t the Old Testament God a God of Hate and the New Testament God a God of Love?
Another of the frequent accusations against the Bible is that it contains two different conceptions of God.
The Old Testament allegedly presents only a God of wrath, while the New Testament allegedly depicts only a God of love.
The Old Testament contains stories of God’s commanding the destruction ofSodom, the annihilation of the Canaanites, and many other stories of God’s judgment and wrath. The accusers claim this demonstrates a primitive, warlike deity in contradistinction to the advanced teachings of Jesus to love one another and to turn the other cheek, as contained in the Sermon on the Mount.
These ideas about God seem to be in direct conflict, but a moment’s reflection will show otherwise.
Jesus Himself declared that the Old Testament may be summed up by the commandments to love God and love your neighbor (Matthew 22:37). He also observed that God in the Old Testament had continually desired love and mercy rather than sacrifice (Matthew 9:13; 12:7).
This attitude can be seen with statements such as, “Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked… and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?” (Ezekiel 18:23, RSV).
God would not have destroyed certain nations except that He is a God of justice and their evil could not go unchecked and condoned.
He did intend and desire to punish them as a part of His plan, in consistency with His holy nature and jealousy for His wayfaring people. What He desires in consistency with His pure character, He does in justice, in their case, providing they have not repented and come into harmony with His nature (Jeremiah 18).
In the case of the Amorites, God gave them hundreds of years to repent, yet they did not (Genesis 15:16). Noah preached 120 years to his generation before the great flood (Genesis 6:3). The proper Old Testament picture is one of a very patient God who gives these people untold opportunities to repent and come into harmony with Him, and only when they continually refuse does He judge and punish them for their evil deeds. Contrary to some popular belief, the strongest statements of judgment and wrath in the Bible were made by the Lord Jesus Himself.
In Matthew 23, for example, He lashed out at the religious leaders of His day, calling them hypocrites and false leaders, and informing them that their destiny was eternal banishment from God’s presence.
In Matthew 10:34 (KJV), Jesus says that the purpose of His mission is not to unite but to divide. “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.” He goes on to say that His word will cause a father to be against his son, a mother against her daughter, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law (Matthew 10:35).
We find judgment as well as love scattered very pervasively throughout the New Testament, and love and mercy as well as judgment throughout the Old Testament.
God is consistent and unchanging, but different situations call for different emphases. Therefore, when the two testaments are read the way they were intended, they reveal the same holy God who is rich in mercy, but who will not let sin go unpunished.
Thank you for responding and bringing your thoughts to the conversation. I still can not agree. A God of justice would not have killed innocent people including kids. Jesus never condoned anything that evil.
Moses: DEUTERONOMY 2:34 At that time we took all his towns and completely destroyed them – men, women and children. We left no survivors. DEUTERONOMY 3:6 We completely destroyed them, as we had done with Sihon king of Heshbon, destroying every city – men, women and children.
There sits the heart of the matter. Like a festering boil.
This is the most difficult question in the Bible to answer. I’m not going to pretend to have an answer for it because I don’t know. I struggle with it as well.
“No one in hell can ever say I went to Christ and He rejected me.
What does your faith in God allow for the souls of our beloved dogs? Do the dogs have an afterlife? If so, is it with the afterlife of their humans?
Nobody knows anything about an afterlife. But rereading "Rainbow Bridge" can help ease the lost of a beloved pet.
So if nobody knows anything about an afterlife--this would also include you--meaning that you cannot disprove it either. Furthermore you would not be convinced even if someone rose from the dead and testified of the truth of an afterlife would you? The resurrection of Jesus Christ is the indisputable proof that life does not pass on into an after of nothingness. No one here on this thread has been able to advance one good argument to dispute the facts of history that Jesus lived and was crucified. I presented 4 Roman witnesses -- 3 historians and 1 emperor -- none which were favorable to Christianity. They testify of His life and death. No one has from ancient history or modern times have been able to provide evidence that the body didn't rise. That was the only thing the ancient world needed to do to disprove the Christian claim. The resurrection of Christ will stand as a testimony for all times that when a man dies he does not pass into nothingness but will be called back to life to stand in judgment for his deeds and belief.
Men with far greater legal credentials than all the skeptics on this thread combined, have thoroughly researched the evidence and have concluded that the evidence supporting the resurrection of Christ is unassailable when honestly employing recognized and standard laws of evidence.
Some of these great men were instrumental in the founding and early development of our nation. The ones who have since been tearing our nation down are those men who are skeptical of the moral foundation on which it has stood.
I have never tried to prove or disprove anything. What you call proof; most call faith. The best minds in the world have come down on both sides. Some believe and some do not. And many that do believe call God different names that may not be in your Bible. There are many “bibles.”
“What I'm saying is, if God wanted to send us a message, and ancient writings were the only way he could think of doing it, he could have done a better job”. Carl Sagan's Contact
Leo of the Land of Dyr
NRA FOR LIFE
I MISS SARAH
“In Trump We Trust.” Right????
SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."
.... We as Christians want to tell others about the good news...
...If you knew that your child was heading for danger would you not warn him because of your love and foreknowledge?
Just like the poofters that insist that everyone support their rainbow flag.
Guess what sport...people don't want your ideals, nor their's pushed in their face.
How about you keep your proselytising to yourself and worship quietly
Muslims, peta, anti firearms nuts, socialists, greenies, vegans, christians...the list of arseholes determined to "convince" you is endless.
Talk about pot calling the kettle black.
I don’t insist on or shove anything down anyone’s face but at the same time I won’t fly quietly under the radar either. Your intolerance of Christians is a serious problem in this country.
“No one in hell can ever say I went to Christ and He rejected me.
TF49 Thanks for proving my point. I'm sure you don't even realize it.
To me, the strongest argument for the existence of God is the extremely improbability that functional proteins were produced by random, material processes. One thing is for sure: religious believers can be very annoying. Humble and sincere ones who live their beliefs and are not ostentatious about it are admirable, but most (like jaguarTx---yes, I said it) are complete hypocrites and give Christianity a bad name.
Odd thought here.... I’m starting to like the “discussion” that we see here on these threads. Sure there is sharp disagreement but those that would consider themselves skeptics do indeed show up and participate. On some level and for some reason, they are here.
At a minimum, they are stirred up in their soul .........for some reason.
Seems ok to me.....
I’m a little late in replying but wanted to say that I agree totally with your statement. It is good to discuss these issues in agreement or not.
“No one in hell can ever say I went to Christ and He rejected me.
You’re right..........but you don’t get to Valhalla by living a meek life and dying of old age.
�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
TF, they are purely pushing Satans agenda as his minions. They dont listen.
There was nothing and then there was an explosion and a while later, poof, here we are, just a more advanced amoeba. That makes sense to them.
All the emperical evidence means nothing to them, no matter how astronomical the odds all the filled prophecies occuring, they bet their souls on the chance they have grasped the correct grain of sand on Myrle Beach. Its because He has, as He said, blinded them. You can explain God and you can explain the Bible for you and Him, but not for them. There is no discussion. Their minds are closed.
Do yourself good, and proclaim Gods grace and wonders and miracles to His wonders, and as He said, even the rocks.
Well, I guess, matter of fact, thats what youre doing.
My Mom and Dad live on in my mind, because they are alive. Does your dogs sire live in its mind?
Last edited by jaguartx; 07/07/19.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
For those not on the short list to get into heaven, take heart that God is still with you in hell.
Psa 139: KJV - 7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? 8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
This is another good example of the skeptics lack of Scriptural understanding: The word hell is used to mean grave or place of punishment. David is saying if he dies or takes his life and should he go to the grave or the abode of the wicked he will not escape the judgment of God. In the final judgment death and hell will give up their dead to stand before the Great White throne judgment to be tried for their deeds on earth. Rev.20:13
You say one is interimly punished [whilst waiting in the grave] before the white throne final judgment?- then following the white throne one is cast into the lake of fire as punishment?
Why would God prematurely punish a person before his or her case was tried ?
are not Both the saved and unsaved who have died , all in their graves “sleeping” until the resurrection day?
and regarding the lake of Fire punishment,... thats not an eternal torture form of punishment, cause to be tortured and tormented for ever would mean one would have to be immortal...and scripture is clear that one shall suffer the 2nd Death...which to me means total annihilation. " And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." (Revelation 20:14) "I turned you to ashes ...you shall.be no more for ever" ( Ezekiel 28) “The soul who sins shall die” (Ezekiel 18:20). “Rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell” (Matthew 10:28).
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
Its for certain, certain geniuses cant distinguish the difference between truth and proof of fact.
Rimfire, i farted this AM. That is the truth, but yet a fact i cant prove.
People fart. Everybody farts. People make claims that may or may not be true.
Your claim that you farted is a very ordinary claim. As a result, the standards of evidence for such a claim are low.
In contrast, a universe making super natural being is a extraordinary claims, and this claim requires extraordinary evidence, yet you cannot offer anything that even qualifies as good evidence, let alone extraordinary.
Again science demands it on the basis of the need for an uncaused first cause, the anthropic principles of life, and the biological irreducible complexity of life. To reject God as the Intelligent designer is unscientific and based purely on prejudice.
The problem with atheism and skepticism is that the mind becomes enslaved by the will and emotion of the heart and cannot honestly examine the evidence. The skeptic and atheist refuse to believe that which their passions wish to reject and their cover is that they need more evidence. Yet they cannot produce any credible proof that God does not exist.
Intelligent design and irreducible complexity had their day in court and were thoroughly trashed by a Christian professional witness and a Republican appointed Judge:
Outlawing Creation science was not based on science but rather upon previous liberal interpretations of the constitution. The Declaration of Independence says our rights come from our Creator who made all men equal. When Creation science is outlawed we are attacking both science and the foundation of equal rights. Our Founders were creationists.
Ancient writings are the witnesses because this is when the books were written. No one has problems with all the other ancient documents of the world such as Homer's Iliad and Odyssey. Yet there are far less manuscript evidence for those documents than the Bible. It's a matter of having faith that is based on fact or evidence or on your own opinions and preferences. We have already covered that all religions cannot be equally credible because they disagree and I or you could simply make up our own. These leaves us with which one. There is only one book that began with the inception of alphabetic writing and has been in continuous usage ever since. There is only one that has a such a large volume of fulfilled prophecies.
God has present testimony to His truth today each timeives are changed from selfishness to selflessness by Jesus Christ.
It is simple good folks. Like Saul, you need to see the Light. I could post an image, but the non believers would find fault with that also.
The gospels have several contradictory accounts of Saul's conversion experience....which was probably an epileptic seizure.
The contradictions are only apparent to those who seek to deny and judge Him and not to those who believe. Your testimony reveals He has not revealed Himself to you.
I had the sweetest little female GSP who loved ALMOST all. I kept an eye on those she didnt.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
