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In early Christianity, folks were forced to convert or die. Kind of sounds sort of familiar.
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Yeah that's the one. I'd be interested in the opinions of anyone who listens to it and knows more about the subject than I do. I find the guys way of talking kinda hard to listen to, at least in the beginning, but I got used to it and the material was interesting enough to continue with.
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The other founding "liberal" Benjamin Franklin:
"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters. I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? Benjamin Franklin: Signer of the Constitution and Declaration of IndependenceWe have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings, that “except the Lord build the House, they labor in vain that build it.” I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without His concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better, than the Builders of Babel: We shall be divided by our partial local interests; our projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a reproach and bye word down to future ages. And what is worse, mankind may hereafter from this unfortunate instance, despair of establishing governments by human wisdom and leave it to chance, war and conquest.
I therefore beg leave to move that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the clergy of this city be requested to officiate in that service." By John Fea This article originally appeared in Pennsylvania Heritage Magazine Volume XXXVII, Number 4 - Fall 2011 Ezra Stiles (1727–1795), the Calvinist president of Yale College, was curious about Benjamin Franklin (1706–1790) and his faith. In 1790, he asked the nation's senior statesman if he would commit his religious beliefs to paper. Franklin agreed. He was nearing the end of his life - he died six weeks later - and possibly believed this was as good a time as any to summarize the religious creed by which he lived. "Here is my Creed," Franklin wrote to Stiles. "I believe in one God, Creator of the Universe. That He governs it by His Providence. That he ought to be worshipped. That the most acceptable Service we render to him, is doing Good to his other Children. That the Soul of Man is immortal, and will be treated with Justice in another Life respecting its Conduct in this ... As for Jesus of Nazareth ... I think the system of Morals and Religion as he left them to us, the best the World ever saw ... but I have ... some Doubts to his Divinity; though' it is a Question I do not dogmatism upon, having never studied it, and think it is needless to busy myself with it now, where I expect soon an Opportunity of knowing the Truth with less Trouble." The narrative was classic Franklin, witty and to the point. Religion was worthless unless it promoted virtuous behavior. Jesus was the greatest moral teacher who ever lived, but he was not God.
Leo of the Land of Dyr
NRA FOR LIFE
I MISS SARAH
“In Trump We Trust.” Right????
SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."
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He formed his own Toronto-based ministry, Ravi Zacharias International Ministries, in 1984 and is the host of radio shows called “Let My People Think” and “Just Thinking,” all of which has helped him pocket a net worth of $7.5 million.Sep 14, 2016
Hooch.net › richest-religious-leaders
Gilded Gods: How The Richest Religious Leaders Live - Hooch.net
Any preacher with a net worth of 7.5 million dollars has completely missed the point of Jesus teachings. Anyone that promotes said Charlatans has also completely missed the point.
Wow I had not read anything of this until today; very sad to hear. Flirting with the LDS, Roman Catholic Universalist mystics, women with whom he isn’t married, and finally misrepresentation of his creds. All damnable. The message in the OP, however, was correct in spite of the eventual fall of the messenger.
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The other founding "liberal" Benjamin Franklin:
"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters. I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? Benjamin Franklin: Signer of the Constitution and Declaration of IndependenceWe have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings, that “except the Lord build the House, they labor in vain that build it.” I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without His concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better, than the Builders of Babel: We shall be divided by our partial local interests; our projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a reproach and bye word down to future ages. And what is worse, mankind may hereafter from this unfortunate instance, despair of establishing governments by human wisdom and leave it to chance, war and conquest.
I therefore beg leave to move that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the clergy of this city be requested to officiate in that service." By John Fea This article originally appeared in Pennsylvania Heritage Magazine Volume XXXVII, Number 4 - Fall 2011 Ezra Stiles (1727–1795), the Calvinist president of Yale College, was curious about Benjamin Franklin (1706–1790) and his faith. In 1790, he asked the nation's senior statesman if he would commit his religious beliefs to paper. Franklin agreed. He was nearing the end of his life - he died six weeks later - and possibly believed this was as good a time as any to summarize the religious creed by which he lived. "Here is my Creed," Franklin wrote to Stiles. "I believe in one God, Creator of the Universe. That He governs it by His Providence. That he ought to be worshipped. That the most acceptable Service we render to him, is doing Good to his other Children. That the Soul of Man is immortal, and will be treated with Justice in another Life respecting its Conduct in this ... As for Jesus of Nazareth ... I think the system of Morals and Religion as he left them to us, the best the World ever saw ... but I have ... some Doubts to his Divinity; though' it is a Question I do not dogmatism upon, having never studied it, and think it is needless to busy myself with it now, where I expect soon an Opportunity of knowing the Truth with less Trouble." The narrative was classic Franklin, witty and to the point. Religion was worthless unless it promoted virtuous behavior. Jesus was the greatest moral teacher who ever lived, but he was not God. I would have assessed him the same from what I know of his writings. My concern is not that all people are "christian" (that is a voluntary faith choice) but rather that we believe in God and a moral law that goes above the power of government. We need to hold government accountable for good moral (not religious) behavior. They need to understand that our equal rights are given us by our Creator who created all men equally and that good government will seek to support that and not look at themselves as the owner and issuer of rights.
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It appears to me that the agenda is "Let's scrap everything we know from historical accounts and dig in the dirt and rewrite history based on what we deduce from archaeology."
Should we do this with American History also? You are wrong as to what the agenda is. The agenda is to have multiple, independent lines of evidence to establish what is the most probable.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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"Here is my Creed," Franklin wrote to Stiles. "I believe in one God, Creator of the Universe. That He governs it by His Providence. That he ought to be worshipped. That the most acceptable Service we render to him, is doing Good to his other Children. That the Soul of Man is immortal, and will be treated with Justice in another Life respecting its Conduct in this ... As for Jesus of Nazareth ... I think the system of Morals and Religion as he left them to us, the best the World ever saw ... but I have ... some Doubts to his Divinity; though' it is a Question I do not dogmatism upon, having never studied it, and think it is needless to busy myself with it now, where I expect soon an Opportunity of knowing the Truth with less Trouble."
The narrative was classic Franklin, witty and to the point. Religion was worthless unless it promoted virtuous behavior. Jesus was the greatest moral teacher who ever lived, but he was not God. Franklin didn't say Jesus was not God. He said he didn't know if He was and had doubts, but chose not to pursue them at that stage in his life. Pity. He was so close to achieving his salvation. Perhaps he did, though, in a moment of revelation and understanding. Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?
Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
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In early Christianity, folks were forced to convert or die. Kind of sounds sort of familiar. Until Constantine they were largely persecuted and believed in persecuting no one. Making Rome officially Christian eventually led Christians to an about face to persecute others. However the whole church did not go along with this state religion movement and in turn they also were persecuted--but they were the ones which were most accurately modeling Christ. It was the same all down through the Middle ages--state established Christianity persecuting and suppressing dissent --- which included free church Christians--i.e. the followers of Jesus' teachings and life.
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Campfire Oracle
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The other founding "liberal" Benjamin Franklin:
"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters. I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? Benjamin Franklin: Signer of the Constitution and Declaration of IndependenceWe have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings, that “except the Lord build the House, they labor in vain that build it.” I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without His concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better, than the Builders of Babel: We shall be divided by our partial local interests; our projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a reproach and bye word down to future ages. And what is worse, mankind may hereafter from this unfortunate instance, despair of establishing governments by human wisdom and leave it to chance, war and conquest.
I therefore beg leave to move that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the clergy of this city be requested to officiate in that service." By John Fea This article originally appeared in Pennsylvania Heritage Magazine Volume XXXVII, Number 4 - Fall 2011 Ezra Stiles (1727–1795), the Calvinist president of Yale College, was curious about Benjamin Franklin (1706–1790) and his faith. In 1790, he asked the nation's senior statesman if he would commit his religious beliefs to paper. Franklin agreed. He was nearing the end of his life - he died six weeks later - and possibly believed this was as good a time as any to summarize the religious creed by which he lived. "Here is my Creed," Franklin wrote to Stiles. "I believe in one God, Creator of the Universe. That He governs it by His Providence. That he ought to be worshipped. That the most acceptable Service we render to him, is doing Good to his other Children. That the Soul of Man is immortal, and will be treated with Justice in another Life respecting its Conduct in this ... As for Jesus of Nazareth ... I think the system of Morals and Religion as he left them to us, the best the World ever saw ... but I have ... some Doubts to his Divinity; though' it is a Question I do not dogmatism upon, having never studied it, and think it is needless to busy myself with it now, where I expect soon an Opportunity of knowing the Truth with less Trouble." The narrative was classic Franklin, witty and to the point. Religion was worthless unless it promoted virtuous behavior. Jesus was the greatest moral teacher who ever lived, but he was not God. I would have assessed him the same from what I know of his writings. My concern is not that all people are "christian" (that is a voluntary faith choice) but rather that we believe in God and a moral law that goes above the power of government. We need to hold government accountable for good moral (not religious) behavior. They need to understand that our equal rights are given us by our Creator who created all men equally and that good government will seek to support that and not look at themselves as the owner and issuer of rights. And there it is: Those who believe in the big bang can not logically believe in the premise this nation and its constitution are founded on.
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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"Here is my Creed," Franklin wrote to Stiles. "I believe in one God, Creator of the Universe. That He governs it by His Providence. That he ought to be worshipped. That the most acceptable Service we render to him, is doing Good to his other Children. That the Soul of Man is immortal, and will be treated with Justice in another Life respecting its Conduct in this ... As for Jesus of Nazareth ... I think the system of Morals and Religion as he left them to us, the best the World ever saw ... but I have ... some Doubts to his Divinity; though' it is a Question I do not dogmatism upon, having never studied it, and think it is needless to busy myself with it now, where I expect soon an Opportunity of knowing the Truth with less Trouble."
The narrative was classic Franklin, witty and to the point. Religion was worthless unless it promoted virtuous behavior. Jesus was the greatest moral teacher who ever lived, but he was not God. Franklin didn't say Jesus was not God. He said he didn't know if He was and had doubts, but chose not to pursue them at that stage in his life. Pity. He was so close to achieving his salvation. Perhaps he did, though, in a moment of revelation and understanding. Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Seems Ben Franklin was also a mason. Masons are required to profess a belief in an almighty God, but that god could the god of the Jews.... or god or the muslims or whatever. Franklins final words seem consistent with this. Sweet sounding words can still be lies from the pit of hell. Believer in”God” but not in Jesus the Messiah? Seems a hollow belief .....
Last edited by TF49; 07/09/19. Reason: Spel, Becker got me.
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
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Campfire Oracle
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It appears to me that the agenda is "Let's scrap everything we know from historical accounts and dig in the dirt and rewrite history based on what we deduce from archaeology."
Should we do this with American History also? You are wrong as to what the agenda is. The agenda is to have multiple, independent lines of evidence to establish what is the most probable. The agenda is to destroy the only nation dedicated to God by inculcating in peoples minds that we are nothing more than pissants and rats and there is no reason for morals and that animalistic behavior and pedophelia are A OK. IOW, the agenda is to follow the satan they deny the existence of.
Last edited by jaguartx; 07/09/19.
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Campfire 'Bwana
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In early Christianity, folks were forced to convert or die. Kind of sounds sort of familiar. In early Christianity folks were forced to hide or die for 250 years. Still, it survived and went on to become a Roman thing with Constantine, until Martin Luther arrived on the scene and freed the Bible from demagogues who chose to exploit it. While it was a Roman thing, it was also militarized to stop islam and succeeded in that one task, even though it became things it should have not have become. The Bible and Christianity had not seen the light of day for a very long time and the last several centuries it can be discussed fully and openly, though lieberal demoncraps and other vile filth worthy only of Hell would have that not be as it is.
We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?
Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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It appears to me that the agenda is "Let's scrap everything we know from historical accounts and dig in the dirt and rewrite history based on what we deduce from archaeology."
Should we do this with American History also? You are wrong as to what the agenda is. The agenda is to have multiple, independent lines of evidence to establish what is the most probable. The agenda is to destroy the only nation dedicated to God by inculcating in peoples minds that we are nothing more than pissants and rats and there is no reason for morals and that animalistic behavior and pedophelia are A OK. IOW, the agenda is to follow the satan they deny the existence of. well said!
We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?
Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
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[quote=BOWSINGER]My point remains that your Biblical “proofs” fall short for many of us.
Concur.
That's just the way it is with non-believers. Few ever change their spots. But those who do are often great leaders for the Church.
We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?
Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
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It appears to me that the agenda is "Let's scrap everything we know from historical accounts and dig in the dirt and rewrite history based on what we deduce from archaeology."
Should we do this with American History also? You are wrong as to what the agenda is. The agenda is to have multiple, independent lines of evidence to establish what is the most probable. The agenda is to destroy the only nation dedicated to God by inculcating in peoples minds that we are nothing more than pissants and rats and there is no reason for morals and that animalistic behavior and pedophelia are A OK. IOW, the agenda is to follow the satan they deny the existence of. well said! Back up a second, who'd agenda exactly are we talking about here?
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This one: Their conclusions are radical: that the Israelites are Canaanites who forged a new identity, that there was no Exodus, that King David was not much more than a bandit, that the empire of Solomon never existed, and that the God of Israel may have had a wife, Asherah. All this, the new wave say, was whitewashed by the authors of the Old Testament (Tanakh), who only put pen to paper centuries after the events they wrote about. Talk about creating myths and fairy tales ... Archaeology has progressed far enough in the last two centuries in the discoveries of steles that correlate with Bible accounts that these starting assumptions are so bizarre that only someone who really wants to create a new story for money, popularity, or a liberal agenda would consider it. These guys know that the left and media are open to any new possibilities for revisionist history. They also know that most people do not know or care enough about history to test their hypothesis. Dan Brown's Da Vinci code is a good example of someone who could sell revisionist history. Some of his conclusions are very juvenile--like the Bible was decided at Nicaea when they did not even discuss that as an item of business.
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I haven't listened to his Old Testament series yet, only most of the second. He makes no claim as to which versions correct or better than others, simply lays out what they say, where they came from, who was responsible for them etc. The first series looks interesting, looking forward to it. I'm sure there is plenty of nonsense theories and claims floating around out there, I'm really only interested in hearing what the claims are and what the evidence is to back it up. From what I've heard from this fellow so far, he really only seems interested in the history and archeology of the Bible, not really proving that one view is the correct one.
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Language translation?
Question: "Why does Acts 9:7 say that those traveling with Paul heard a voice, but Acts 22:9 says that they heard no voice?"
Answer: As Paul relates his conversion experience to an audience in Jerusalem, he says, “They that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me” (Acts 22:9, KJV).
However, Luke, in relating the same event, says, “The men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man” (Acts 9:7, KJV).
So, which is it? Paul says “they heard not the voice,” and Luke says they were “hearing a voice.”
First of all, the word for “voice” in these verses is the Greek word phone, which means “a sound, a tone, a speech, a voice, or a natural sound.” With such a wide-ranging definition, the context must determine the most accurate meaning of the word. Most commonly, phone is applied to a voice from God, a human, or an angel. However, phone can also refer to sounds in general. It is translated “sound” in John 3:8, “The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound. . . .” Paul uses the word to refer to the “sound” of a trumpet in 1 Corinthians 14:8.
The flexibility of phone is quite evident in Revelation 1:15, “His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice [phone] was like the sound [phone] of rushing waters.” Here, the identical Greek word is translated two different ways.
These examples illustrate how confusion can arise in the comparison of Acts 9 with Acts 22. Paul heard a voice as Jesus communicated directly with him. The men with Paul heard the voice speaking to Paul but, to them, it was just an unintelligible sound. Did they hear the voice? Yes, in the sense that they heard something. But, since they could not understand what the voice said, it was nothing more than a sound—in other words, they couldn’t really “hear” Jesus.
The ESV clears up the seeming contradiction nicely: “Those who were with me saw the light but did not understand the voice of the one who was speaking to me” (Acts 22:9). And, “They heard the sound but did not see anyone” (Acts 9:7). Not understanding the voice—but hearing the sound—is a good description of what happened.
Correct and we use this type of terminology all the time today. We say we heard something when we hear a noise, but when we hear a noise and cannot discern the speech we say we cannot hear the person. Again its the application of context and common sense. Sloppy reporting at best. As written, it is an undeniably contradictory account of an event that was most probably an epileptic seizure. In both instances, being open to interpretation and needing explanation, the interpretation made by those who already have a conclusion, already believe, is skewed in favour of faith rather than reason or probability. Actually it was quite a simple explanation. No seizures needed. Occams Razor. People once believed that Spirits moved the wind and there were gods residing in the mountains and forests....so what is more probable, that Saul fell and had hallucinations because be suffered from epilepsy or that he was actually in contact with God? What is the likely scenario?
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Skepticism which is based on the rejection of God, creation, and moral absolutes is a detriment to our nation and society-even though it is right that we allow that liberty of conscience.But in the end our nation will only survive if we understand what our founders understood:
“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” (John Adams, October 11, 1798.)
Skepticism is none of those things....you may be thinking of cynicism. Or perhaps some sort of political ideology.
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This was already addressed. Do you believe that the bombing of all citizens in Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and Berlin were immoral because the Axis powers refused to surrender under any terms? This was a much larger scale of indiscriminate destruction than the Canaanites who were given many opportunities and generations to reform before they were destroyed.
The NT makeover theory is logically unsustainable--the NT writers quoted the OT writers with no apologies--including the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.
A lot of things were asserted but absolutely nothing was addressed, there is no comparison to be made between a God - presuming existence - ordering the butchering of women and children and taking virgins as sex slaves and what the allies did in the war, which is something that we alone are responsible for.
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