Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Deer Hunting Youth rifles

Went by sporting goods store today looking at youth rifles for my 8 yr old son. His older brother 10 year old shoots a Ruger American Compact in 7 mm-08 with reduced loads. It shoots good only complaint is 18” barrel where other youth models have 20” barrel. We looked at following models.

Ruger American Compact
Remington 700 youth
Savage Axis youth
Howa youth. It was muddy girl pink but surely you can get other colors.
Weatherby vanguard youth
Browning

I liked the Howa but didn’t like that safety had to be off to bolt for child.
Liked Ruger slightly more than Remington except shorter barrel and both more than savage.
Weatherby was nice but didn’t play with as much.
Browning is really nice but more than I would like to spend on first deer rifle.


Will probably get another 7 mm-08 but not for sure.

Any thoughts. I wound also consider Mossberg but they didn’t have one. I know it comes with spacer.

I had a REm. 700 youth in a .243 . It chot like crap and rusted very easily.

The Remington 700 Youth is a great platform. They are accurate and usable, and you can always upgrade/build on it later.

I’m sure there are other good options, but the Wby Youth model (in our case, .243) has been very accurate and effective for years.





Sighting in at 100 yds:

Are you sure about the Howa safety?

I've had a couple of them, still have one, and all have had 3-pos. safeties. Even the Timney replacement on an earlier one was 3-position.

The Howa would be a strong contender if I were choosing.

Looks like MarineHawk's crew is rolling them up! Congrats.

A few days back, Brownells had lightweight Howa 6.5 You-Know-What barreled actions for about $350. They also have their own wood stocks for about $215. Just a notion.

Another Howa option for youngsters (and maybe Gramps) is the Mini 6.5 Grendel Youth if you can find one. Should be on a par with reduced 7-08 loads. Requires a bit of tape to secure the crappy magazine in the field.

All the children I’ve taught have much preferred shooting 223’s to anything bigger, with the 6.5 Grendel being #2. They also have all preferred the Tikka compact to anything else. Being able to easily load the magazine themselves and the easy bolt lift and travel are the primary reasons.

I’d be solidly in Tikka T3x Compact 223 with 1/8” twist shooting good bullets.




Barring that, have you looked at the Howa Mini action in 6.5 Grendel? The whole thing is sized smaller, and children can work it much easier on their own. The factory stock can be reshaped by a guy on here to be very slim.

I would agree on the Tikka and Howa, based on price.
The Remington, Savage, Mossberg, Ruger are all viable options.

A PLUS is the option of purchasing an aftermarket, full size stock, when they are grown.

Whole heartedly endorse the .223, with 62-64 gr PSP or HP bullets. I have started 7 kids out with Rem 700 in .223.
All at 8 years old. All have taken deer and hogs, out to 250 yards, all with one shot.

Shot placement is critical. The low recoil greatly aids the shot placement.


Reloading larger cartridges down is a viable option, also.

My grandson moved up to a .30-06, this year. I have been loading light .25-06 equivalents for him. ( 115 hr bullets @ 2400 fps ). Very mild and accurate

My son started with a Ruger American in 243. "Full size", for the longer barrel, and I got a youth stock for it. The [bleep] magazines drove me nuts until I got one that worked 100%. He's never needed a second shot anyway, but there's always that chance. He loves the thing and won't give it up, and it now wears the longer stock. It's not what I'd do now. Form's advice is good particularly for a smaller kid; 8 is small.

Thanks for the suggestions.

I would definitely like to consider the Tikka compact. Pay a little more for a better rifle. The store I went to didn't have any. I had 3 kids with me and was trying to gun shop/kill time before a birthday party. My four year old was distracting while checking out each model. I would have like to handled the weatherby more.
As for the Ruger American, my 10 year old has that, and it shoots good with reduced recoil loads. Bolt and magazine are ok but not great. I like it's bolt and magazine better than the Savage. Remington was ok. I doubt it will shoot any better than Ruger. The main drawback to Ruger vs others is 18" barrel and wondering if 20" would be much less muzzle blast or if you could tell difference. I really liked the Howa. It's stock seemed nicer than others. This particular model was muddy girl and would have to order another color. Not sure if all safeties on Howa are like this, but this one wouldn't let you operate bolt until safety was pushed forward. It was not 3 position but some models may be. It was just push forward/back like Remington but locked bolt. Other than that I really liked it best. I will go looking elsewhere and look again. His birthday is in September and plan on the getting him the rifle for it.

As for calibers, I was mainly looking at .243 and 7mm-08. Possibly 6.5 creedmoor. Does anybody know how 6.5 creedmoor recoil is compare to .243 full power and 7mm-08 reduced recoil loads. I was thinking it would be slightly more than .243 and haven't seen any factory reduced recoil loads for it. I don't reload so I don't want to consider 6.5 grendal or .300 blackout since ammo for either is scarce. I will consider .223. I just don't see him getting over 2 seasons before he moves up. If I can tame a .243 or 7mm-08 down enough, he will get many seasons with a true deer rifle. My 10 year old has killed 8 deer in two seasons with his Ruger American 7mm-08. I would still like recoil to be less, b.ut he has been successful. I put limbsaver on, and he manages it ok with reduced loads. A slightly heavier rifle would help soak up recoil considering the american compact is only 6 lb. I may try adding 1-2 lb (temporarily) in buttstock to see how much affect it has.

If it was this one it has the 3 position safety. https://www.legacysports.com/howa-youth-rifles-now-come-with-moon-shine-camo/


My Howa 6.5 Grendel has the 3 position safety. The middle position is easy to push through. It’s not as pronounced as say a Ruger Hawkeye safety.

If you don't handload, the 7mm-08 does offer more options in reduced-recoil factory ammo. If adding some weight, I'd put in the forearm way before I'd put it in the buttstock. People sometimes act like half a pound on a rifle is a deal breaker, but for me, lack of balance is a deal breaker. A few ounces of handgun bullets bedded in the forend of a tupperware stock might only add 3/8 of a pound to a gun, but it can make it handle a lot better and settle on target much easier. I value that over some arbitrary overall weight on a scale.

I personally like the 700 youth guns, as the spacers allow for better stock fit as a kid grows. My daughter is now 14 and uses that system on her 700, also in 7mm-08,

I might have to check out Howa again. It’s possible I made mistake on safety while trying to keep 3 kids under control.

Mine has became more positive in the middle position with use.

I have the Mossberg Bantam Youth in 243 and like it a lot. It is not a lightweight; with the stock spacer, Talleys, a Leupold VX3i 3.5-10 and a mag full of 100 grain Corelokts, it weighs exactly eight pounds. Heavier than I would prefer but still very handy and easy to carry. Trigger is fine, about like a Savage Accutrigger imo. Mine breaks crisply and I haven't touched it out of the box (I am guessing about 3-3.5 pounds from the factory).

I haven't shot it enough to get a good feel for accuracy potential, but have no complaints about the ergonomics other than I wish it was a half pound lighter. If the Patriots go on sale again this Christmas I may pick up the 308 youth model.

The Weatherby comes with a spacer that extends the length of pull as the young hunter grows. It's called the Compact. About $460.



In the pic of my 11-yr-old at the range above, he is wearing a Past shoulder pad. I actually like the Cabela’s version better, but they both work wonders at the range.

I have had about a dozen children firing normal rifles and adults firing boomers that have, for the first time in my presence, tried the shoulder pads at the range. Every single one of them was amazed, including myself, on what a difference they make in softening the recoil. Two of them cut their group sizes by more than half with a 300 WM and 7mm RM respectively.

Use it at the range, and it won’t matter when not wearing it in the field.



What I do with all of my boomers at the range: I put on a heavy bipod which both steadies the rifle and adds a bunch of weight. It makes it recoil less. If wanted, take it off while hunting.

Padded leather shoulder pad + heavy bipod = pleasant range session shooting a large volume of rounds.

Take both off in the field, and they won’t notice the recoil, and will have a lighter rifle.

Look at the Savage 11/111 Trophy Hunter XP Youth 7mm-08. Decent package setup, 3 position safety and 20 inch barrel.

We have a Ruger American. It works great for what it is. It's accurate as hell, doesn't weigh much, and fits the kids pretty well. It's too short for my 14 year old son now but he has other rifles to use.

That's what I'd recommend.

If buying a Ruger American Compact, there are green Predator stocks out there on the used market, as people are upgrading those rifles. I dropped a SS 7mm-08 Compact in such a stock and it shot well.

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/243-win-87-gr-sst-custom-lite

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/7mm-08-rem-120-gr-sst-custom-lite

The 243 version will have a good bit less recoil.

This, I consider the youth model like a learner car for a teenager, you know it will get some dings along the way. The same can be said about all of them, just more parts available for Remingtons, then Savages, then Rugers, then less options for the others. I think the Howa can be upgraded to a three position safety but I would need to verify that.

You don't have an AR? If you don't like .223 you can stick a 6.5 Grendel upper on it or just swap in a Grendel bolt and barrel. Grendel will feed from a standard pmag if you don't put too many in. Nice thing about an AR is you can treat it like a single shot and make the kid keep the bolt locked open just like we used to have to keep our single barrels broken open when I was a kid. The safety condition is easy to monitor, too.

I see no real pressing need to have a kid practice with the centerfire instead of a rimfire trainer if using an AR.

Loading down a .308-class cartridge gives you a 6.5 Grendel. Howa is the youth bolt action option. Other options have length of pull issues.

I bought my grandsons a SS 700 Rem youth with the spacer stock in 7-08. They were 8 and 10 at the time. They aren't old enough to hunt in my state yet but have shot it with reduced loads as well as my 700 Rem in 243. I just switch stocks since they are both short action.
I then put it in a McMillan Classic for my daughter and she took a 5X5 bull shooting the Vor-tx 120 Barnes and a big 4x4 muley with the 120 BT factory load at over 350 yards.. Either of these factory loads shoot into a quarter at 100 yds.

Lots of choices out here but their are so many accessories, stocks, etc for the 700 platform and so many ammo choices for the 7-08.

I got both boys Rem .243's one wanted a model seven, the other got a SPS youth. The model seven was just a bit big for the first year, but it's still usable as is years later. The SPS Youth fit great, but he outgrew it. He just bough a laminate adult stock for it and plans to put it back in use. First few animals were coyotes and jacks, then on to deer.

Mine started off shooting my Browning Abolt-2 7mm rem mag with Boss. They always wore muffs in our tower stands and the Boss although loud, made a huge difference in the kick for them. They never once complained about it, probably due to the excitement of the hunt. They now both shoot Rem 700 .308 because of the availability of ammo and the recoil.

Choosing the barreled action you like and mating it up with lighter chassis system like the MDT LSS gives you lots of options on LOP as they grow.

Both of mine use a Ruger American 243 (full size). I went this route as they both shoot LH and there are much fewer options and this one checked the most boxes for me. I'm a fan of fixed power scopes for kids and have found to really like the Weaver K6 on this rifle for their use. From 30 to 151yds they've not had any problems. The stock was a bit long for them when they started, and still is for the younger son, but using a stable two point rest really helps IMO. A ground blind and a Caldwell Fieldpod make for a very good setup for kids.
Untitled by Tyler Staggs, on [bleep]

Tikka compact is probably best bang for the buck. lots of aftermarket stuff available for it to grow with over the years. 7mm-08 in reduced load. may options, all great.
SnT

I bought my kids a ruger compact .243 and put a redfield 2x7 on it, a pretty nice little gun. Perfect size for kids in the 10-15 years old age range IMO.

Problem I had starting young kids was finding short enough LOP even on youth models. I eventually bought a 243 barrel for my encore, cut the stock short, and added slip on limbsaver. Worked great. Nice and light snd easy for young one to move around. The hanmer can be tough for young fingers so I started out pulling it back for him but I liked that control. Now boys older and bought a full size stock for it and he still loves it.

So I visited another gun store Saturday to see what youth rifles they had. They had Ruger American compact in .243 and 7mm-08, savage axis, savage 111 youth, tikka t3x compact in .243 and 7mm-08, weatherby youth 7-08 wood stock, and Remington 783. The Remington was not good They also had a Ruger American compact 6.5 creedmore with what appears to be a predator barrel as it’s longer, heavier, and threaded but stock has short lop. I’ve now got to decide if I get a cheaper beater for starter and upgrade to Tikka later or go ahead and spend money now. The 6.5 Ruger with heavier barrel intrigued me. It should recoil slightly more.243 and less 7mm-08 loads but haven’t seen any reduced recoil loads like 7-08 which might be about same or less. The longer and heavier barrel might make it about same as a lighter.243. If anyone has experience comparing the 3 let me know. I would go with Tikka now but as they grow I’ll upgrade them to a full size rifle. Thinking.243 or going with creed now.

Lugnut,

I started my son out when he was 5 years old and a regular youth stock was still too long for him. We started with a H&R .243 with a very short youth stock that I filled with lead weights (finished around 11lbs) to help with recoil. He practiced exclusively with a .22lr and only shot the .243 when he was shooting deer.

When he had grown a little and could fit into a regular youth stock i bought him a Remington Youth model .243. Filled the buttstock with BB's (again finished to about 10-11lbs) to help with recoil and gradually took them out until he was comfortable with no extra weight and the recoil didn't bother him, but I let him tell me when he was ready for that. Again shooting a lot .22 LR for practice. Federal Fusion 95 grains have been used exclusively in this one and it's accurate, shoots to an inch or less and he's killed deer out to 220-225 yards with it.

He will be 15 years old this year and about 3 years ago I bought a Tikka T3 Stainless Lite in .270 and put it into a Boyds Laminate stock with a length of pull in between a youth stock and a standard length of pull. This rifle finished out at 8lbs with scope and sling. He started out with Hornady's Lite loads and killed a few deer, but has been using the Hornady Whitetail 130 grain load on the last 5 or so deer.

I think the 6.5 creedmoor youth model with the longer barrel shooting Hornady 125 grain would not be to bad recoil wise. You could add a brake, or you could go they way I did and add extra weight to help with that problem. It also helps to steady the rifle.

If I was looking for a one and done deal. An adult rifle in 7mm-08, 6.5 creedmoor, .270 etc. shooting lite loads to begin with and a Boyd's at one stock with the adjustable buttstock or a chassis type stock would grow with them. And you would have the factory stock to put it back into if they wanted to do that later. The way I did it, my son now has the three rifles listed, a Ruger 10/22, a Savage HB .22, a heavy barrel 6.5 creedmoor, and two shotguns. I could have saved money by spending a little more up front, but he enjoys shooting as much as I do so we had more fun doing it the way we did.

The problem I had with my son with the short barrels was the muzzle blast (but they are handy inside a shooting house). I made him wear foam plugs and ear muffs at the range and we used electronic muffs when hunting.

Bob.

All of my girls started with a AR-15 in .223 loaded with Barnes bullets. They also trained with the S&W AR 22 lr. The AR’s are just too easy for length of pull adjustments and the recoil is virtually non existent. After they became proficient I switched them to a 6.8 spc II upper. The 6.8 is a hammer and worked well as the girls stature was still small. I’m a traditional type of guy at heart and once the girls grew, they moved to full size bolt action rifles chambered in short action calibers such as .300 Savage, 7.62x39, and 6.5 Creedmoor.

I remember that specific gun and pics of you daughter with that rifle. I actually spoke to you via PM about it 3-4 years ago. My oldest will be 6 soon and I have a 700 youth stock ready to go. I can drop a few different barreled actions in it, but I might even get a receiver as I saw them listed for $299 recently (gotta find it on FB again.

Any updated pics?

My daughter started when a chipmunk was too long.
Putting my AR away one day I looked at it with the stock collapsed,
And a light came on. Bought a can of 4759, and she was shooting
a straight pull bolt action 22 mag.
Pain in the butt loading those, and had to run the gun, but she got to go
shoot a box now and then.

Last year I scarfed up a black Tikka stock here.
Shortened it, used a thin piece of aluminum as a back,
bonded a flip-flop pad to that. For $80 she uses my Sweede.
And since I like a short stock on my deer rifles, it's ok for me.
When the kids are done, I think a 1" pad will make it perfect.

I bought a Remington 700 Youth model in 243 about 7-8 years ago. I have been surprised at how accurate that little rifle is. One of my granddaughters has killed several deer with it, and I've shot it enough to know that I wouldn't be afraid to use it either.

I use the Remington model 7 for my kids. Have a youth 243 which is what I would recommend. Buy the standard adult version in stainless, and the wood youth stock from numrich for like 80-90$. Then they are set for a number of years. 243 is very low recoil, cheap to shoot, and I have killed a lot of game with it over the years without issue

I also have the AAC micro 7 in 300 blk. Put it in a youth stock and screw a omega or sandman on. They practice with subs which have little recoil and noise, then shoot supersonic loads for hunting. My 8 year old is about standard size for that age, but a little wimpy. He shoots it with ease and killed 2 deer last fall with it. The 125 NBT at modest speeds kills deer with ease and has very little recoil. If you reload the 125 NBT 2nds are pretty dang cheap.

Model 7 is light weight, short, maneuverable, and all 3 of mine have been good shooters.

great pictures of youths ! i prefer these youth pictures much more always over adult pictures of adult trophies,you can`t beat the smiles of a youth in a picture and the size of the animal does not matter with those trophy youth Smiles!

This was us last year with that rifle, using one stock spacer from the kit that Remington includes. I think the LOP is now a touch under 13". I'm about 5'9" and she's only an inch or so shorter than me at age 14, so that LOP works nicely on a hunting rifle that fits us both. She's shooting the 120TTSX (7mm-08) at a bit over 2,800fps with H4895. I also put a bit of lead in the forend of that stock to improve forward balance. Even with the lead, it goes 7.7lbs scoped, but "hangs" on target better off-hand or from a rest. If I had to, I could likely put some 3,000fps loads in that gun and hunt it myself, never lacking for anything.....





If Remington will ever do an SPS SS or ADL SS in 6.5CM, that'd be a great one to cut back to 20-21" for a youth gun. I prefer stainless, as who knows how well a kid will clean a gun when they grow up and take it with them.

I set my daughters up with Savage Model 10 "Youth" in 243. Now they each also have a 7-08 in the same models. They think they are great guns and they have each shot several deer.

Nice! She’s grown a lot too!...must have been 5-7 years ago that we talked about that gun.

She's hoping to outgrow me, but I think it's going to be more of a tie.....

My kids love the AR suppressed. They choose the stock length, low recoil and quieter than regular. win-win-win.

My son is not old enough to start hunting or shooting, but when he is old enough I have a brand new Remington 700 22-250 we will start him out on. Big enough to kill deer at 100 yards all day, and not enough kick to mess with him too much.

Bought 12yr old granddaughter a Howa 308 youth model in 308 and two 14yr old grandsons Winchester mod 70 featherweight compact 308's. The Winchesters are beautiful rifles and very accurate, the Howa has been a good rifle also but I'm a Winchester feller. The Howa is heavier which cuts down recoil for the granddaughter.

I ended up getting him a Remington 700 youth in .243. I put a Leupold vx freedom 3x9!on it. It was tax free weekend and scope marked down. Now to the important part “bullets”. Core lock was on clearance for $13 so I bought a box but am wondering what’s best for performance on deer at 20-150 yards. I hear people praising Barnes, Nosler Partition, sst, ballistic tips, fusion, and plain old soft points (corelock, interlock, power point). It has to be factory. Obviously I will pick something that groups decent. I just wanted to know whether to stay cup and core, sst/ballistic tip for maximum destruction/dry, or something like a Barnes or partition to ensure pass through. I’m not worried about ruining a small amount of meat just want a dead deer that’s easy to find. I haven’t used a .243 since I was a kid and used corelock back then but am open to better options and want the most forgiving ammo with kids. All suggestions are appreciated.

I shoot only reloads, but if I was going to buy factory ammo for deer hunting I’d go with Hornady SSTs or Federal blue box. Both of those are top quality and inexpensive.

Just about any 100 grain factory load will do what you ask.

I would recommend some of the Hornady lite loads with the 87 grain bullet for your son though. Shoot behind the shoulder and they will kill deer just fine

Here is what I got for my kids.
Tikka 223 and put a youth stock on it.
Cz 527 in 762x39
And I just got a tikka 6.5 CM supper lite for when he gets older

I bought a box of those too. I figured I would let my son practice with them. Might use them hunting but doubt he would notice difference if slipped full power in while shooting at deer. I would of coarse rezero the scope

was in same scenario and bought my (2) sons,age now 15 and 8, a tikka t3 compact in 7mm-08 and also bought a fullsize stock for it on ebay for when they get bigger or i might inherit it as i shot my best 100 yds 3 shot group outta it ever. so, i gots confidence in the thang. by the way the 15 yr old is getting his own tikka t3x superlite in 308 win in a few days if buds will get on board. the 8 yr old will be behind the trigger 1st of november for hopefully his first deer.
good luck,
Big Ed

I have six kids that are all spaced two years apart so I figured youth rifles were a good investment. Three of them will be hunting big game this year.

I started my kids out on deer with a couple of .243s. One is a Rem 700 SPS youth and the other is a Ruger Stainless/Laminate compact. Both have performed well and have taken there share of deer, antelope and coyotes the past few years.






To keep recoil down and velocity up in their hunting loads I went with an 85 TSX load that both rifles shot adequately (sub MOA in the remington and 1-1.5 MOA in the Ruger). Either is perfectly adequate for the ranges I limit the kids to with those rifles.

When introducing my younger kids I load up 58 and 60 grain varmint bullets over TrailBoss at around 2200-2300 FPS. Insignificant recoil, good accuracy, and dead on at 100 without adjusting from their hunting loads which I have dialed into 2" high at 100. My kids are pretty shrimpy and even my eight year old can handle this combo.




By the time they are old enough to hunt elk my kids have been able to handle a 7mm-08 alright. When elk are on the menu I switch them over to a Ruger Frontier or youth/ladies Savage Axis in 7mm-08 shooting a 140 accubond.

Great choice on the gun! The 100 grain CoreLokt will work just fine for your ranges.

If you want to try another cheap but great load, use the Federal Fusion 95 grain. It will be accurate and hold together even though it opens up easily.

Thanks for all the replies.

Another approach I have taken is to get something like a Rem. Mod. 7 that they can use the rest of their life. Then get an inexpensive stock from Stockies and cut it down.

More money up front but less down the road when you have to buy a new full sized rifle. Once they out grow the stock it could be sold or saved for future young shooters. Kids grow so fast it won't be long before you are buying a new rifle. I think I had to add spacers every year for about five years with one of my boys who is 6'4" now.

I picked up a beat up old Win M70 Ranger youth in 223Rem. The stock is all scratched and has been shortened at least another inch over standard "youth" length stocks. The bore is pretty pitted, however it still shoots ~1.5" groups @ 100yds w/55gn softs or 50gn V-max. It's got an OLD 3.5-10x40 Leupold pre-click adjust, pre-Multi-coat IV. But, it works. I can let almost any kid shoot it. The 22" bbl coupled w/only bing 223Rem to begin with doesn't bother ears or shoulders. Typically w/kids I just set up a 10" gong @ 100yds and let them bang away to their heart's content. Getting to be a fair number of friends kid's who've taken deer with that old beater.

In fact, Daughter 1 (she's 10 and smallish) is going to be shooting it @ steel this afternoon.

That Remington ammo will kill deer just fine. Most guys on here have used it over the years at some point and killed plenty of game. I know I did and so did my father. I wouldn’t worry too much about that. Worry more about practicing

I lucked up and found a model 7 youth in 708 a few years back. It will stomp a kid with normal loads, I load reduced loads for my son. I don't know how easy it is to find reduced loads for a 708. May not go the 708 route unless you load your own. 308 reduced loads should be easier to find.

Another good one to look for is a Ruger Hawkeye compact. I little price but something that will last a life time for sure. I scored an old M77 compact in 260 last year. It's a sweet heart and what I'm moving my youngest son, 8, to this year. He shoots it fine with normal loads.

Lugnut,

I'm a big fan of premium bullets in smaller cartridges in order to ensure exit holes. I am hand loading the 80 gr TTSX (3180 fps) for my daughter and have been very pleased so far. We have killed 12 or 13 deer between us with her gun. I believe you can get the same bullet in Barnes Vortex factory ammo. Or Hornady GMX is basically the same thing. The lighter bullets also have slightly less recoil than a traditional 100 gr bullet.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bhxxvbiko1hpa0g/20171109_165330.jpg?dl=0

Yep. Howa mini Grendel with a mdt lss chassis is the ticket for growing kids.

My experience was finding a short enough stock had been a bit challenging. Your 243 will do great. In our case we came up with A H&R 300 BLK with a youth stock that is the lightest option we tried. For reasons of fit and weight @ 9 years and the H&R 300 BLK Seems to be my sons favorite option. We have a CZ 527 300 BLK also in a Boyds At One adjustable stock that he likes also with these reduced loads. He has not hunted deer yet and we have only began to shoot reduced 123 grain SP loads for target practice only. The reduced loads we have worked up still bark a bit without a moderator. Yet the recoil with these reduced loads is comparable to a 22 hornet.

Suppose with ear muffs the report of even the reduced load is manageable. Yet I find it regrettable that as a parent I have to go through the paperwork and pay an additional 200 dollars on the already heavy taxed suppressor to purchase the moderator to protect my 9 year old sons hearing as well as mine. In terms of our right to bear arms our country has been second too none. In terms of our right to protect our hearing we lag a lot behind other countries based on my observation.

Back to the deer hunting rifle I expect we will graduate to a full load behind a Barns Tac-TX or a moderate load behind a Nosler 125 grain ballistic tip for a hunting load.

I used an Encore frame that I use for a SML platform and bought a .260 Rem barrel and scope on, added a very efficient brake and reload light. Very accurate, ability to grow due to the collapsible stock and I like it too.

My son started out with 7mm-08 in Ruger American. It worked well for him.

I bought a Howa Mini Action in 6.5 Grendel for my 10 year old daughter to use. She is very petit so also bought the shortest Boyd's stock to put on it. Still a bit long for her, but she carries it like a champ and shoots it well. Very accurate, light kicking gun. It also has a 3 position safety.

My son got his first deer Friday with his youth 700 .243 using factory Remington 100 gr core-lock. It was his first time to shoot at a deer.

Some years ago I bought a Model 700 Youth 243 for the grandkids to use. They've killed a few deer with it, but the thing that amazes me is how accurate this rifle is. With my favorite load of 45.0 W760 and an 85 grain Sierra HPBT, it is an absolute tack driver. I would not feel the least bit handicapped using it myself, and I'm picky about my choice in deer rifles.