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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Oh yeah, almost forgot. ...and that he did not just "poof" exist. That assume that the creator is subject to the constraints of time. Time as we understand it is a physical fact of the universe as we see it. Since the creator created the universe and hence the idea of time he cannot be constrained by time. So always existed is rational. That is not rational. If it exists it is subject to time as he created it. He created man and women in his image. They had reproductive organs as he did. So, he was created but instead of saying we do not know a whole new line of bullshit is offered up and church attendance goes down. For good reason, of course. All of this presumes "a creator" even exists. I'm still waiting for good evidence to that effect.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I love this big bang theory. It is so easy to dispel. Just answer this. What went bang and who lit the fuse?
I'd rather die in a BAD gunfight than a GOOD nursing home.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I love this big bang theory. It is so easy to dispel. Just answer this. What went bang and who lit the fuse? You are presuming a "what" and a "who" not in evidence.
Last edited by antelope_sniper; 07/24/19.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Posts: 4,293
Campfire Tracker
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Then what IS in evidence? It had to start with something. Even the something started somewhere by someone.
A bunch of atoms and cells didn't just make up themselves. If you can't believe God started this universe then you got a rough row to hoe.
I'd rather die in a BAD gunfight than a GOOD nursing home.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,640
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Oh yeah, almost forgot. ...and that he did not just "poof" exist. That assume that the creator is subject to the constraints of time. Time as we understand it is a physical fact of the universe as we see it. Since the creator created the universe and hence the idea of time he cannot be constrained by time. So always existed is rational. That is not rational. If it exists it is subject to time as he created it. He created man and women in his image. They had reproductive organs as he did. So, he was created but instead of saying we do not know a whole new line of bullshit is offered up and church attendance goes down. For good reason, of course. All of this presumes "a creator" even exists. I'm still waiting for good evidence to that effect. It's odd how a high standard of evidence is asked for by theists, as it should, but then rejected in favour of an explanation that has no evidence - 'God did it'
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2010
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"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!"
--- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
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Joined: Nov 2014
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Marley,
Then you have problems with an infinite number of creators. When you encounter infinity you generally have a problem, in many contexts infinity is irrational. Here's a more complete explanation I lifted:
"If there were not at least one uncaused reality in “the whole of reality,” then “the whole of reality” would be constituted by only caused realities – that is, realities that require a cause to exist.
This means that the whole of reality would have to have a real cause beyond itself in order to exist (without such a cause, the whole of reality would not exist – there would be nothing in existence).
This state of affairs is intrinsically contradictory. How can there be a real cause beyond the whole of reality, if “the whole of reality” exhausts everything that is real? Obviously there can’t be such a cause.
Since “a real cause beyond the whole of reality” is intrinsically contradictory and since the whole of reality is not nothing (i.e. something does in fact exist), we must conclude that the whole of reality cannot be constituted only by caused realities (which would collectively require a cause for their existence).
Therefore, there must be at least one uncaused reality in the whole of reality. This uncaused reality must exist through itself."
And if you carry this on you find that logically there can be only one uncaused reality.
There is no infinite numbers of creators just as there is not an infinite number of humans. Uncaused reality is a result of genetics, or science project, gone wild.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Then what IS in evidence? It had to start with something. Even the something started somewhere by someone.
A bunch of atoms and cells didn't just make up themselves. If you can't believe God started this universe then you got a rough row to hoe. It started with a universe that is composed matter/energy and a world with the conditions that allows complex chemistry to emerge and evolve.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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I love this big bang theory. It is so easy to dispel. Just answer this. What went bang and who lit the fuse? If one is to believe that God just exist then one can belive the Big Bang theory that things just went bang. Or Two, or more, objects in space collieded at super high velocity and "Bang"!
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Joined: Nov 2011
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,976 |
Marley,
Then you have problems with an infinite number of creators. When you encounter infinity you generally have a problem, in many contexts infinity is irrational. Here's a more complete explanation I lifted:
"If there were not at least one uncaused reality in “the whole of reality,” then “the whole of reality” would be constituted by only caused realities – that is, realities that require a cause to exist.
This means that the whole of reality would have to have a real cause beyond itself in order to exist (without such a cause, the whole of reality would not exist – there would be nothing in existence).
This state of affairs is intrinsically contradictory. How can there be a real cause beyond the whole of reality, if “the whole of reality” exhausts everything that is real? Obviously there can’t be such a cause.
Since “a real cause beyond the whole of reality” is intrinsically contradictory and since the whole of reality is not nothing (i.e. something does in fact exist), we must conclude that the whole of reality cannot be constituted only by caused realities (which would collectively require a cause for their existence).
Therefore, there must be at least one uncaused reality in the whole of reality. This uncaused reality must exist through itself."
And if you carry this on you find that logically there can be only one uncaused reality.
There is no infinite numbers of creators just as there is not an infinite number of humans. Uncaused reality is a result of genetics, or science project, gone wild. Or perhaps "nothing" is just intrinsically unstable.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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If every living organism comes from a single cell that decided to split and become more complex over the millennia and the diversity that we all share on earth is a result of that evolution, show me the DNA that links humans to a weed, spider or any other organism...
That data is readily available.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Or perhaps "nothing" is just intrinsically unstable. If "nothing" is unstable then it can't be nothing. It must be real. Even in quantum mechanics.
The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh
Which explains a lot.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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If every living organism comes from a single cell that decided to split and become more complex over the millennia and the diversity that we all share on earth is a result of that evolution, show me the DNA that links humans to a weed, spider or any other organism...
That data is readily available. True dat. Here's some fun chit to consider. http://www.dnaftb.org/29/
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!"
--- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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[quote=RickyD][quote=DBT]Evolution is a fact. Theory relates to the means and mechanisms by which it happens. A "fact" like any other lying lieberal "fact". A fact that is a lie. It's the quality and abundance of evidence, information that anyone can examine, that makes something a fact. The problem is not that there is insufficient evidence/information to establish evolution as being a fact, there is.....but that there are folks who are unwilling to consider the evidence because they, themselves prefer magical answers, special creation through an act of magic over research and careful examination of the evidence.....in other words, a bias in favour of their preferred religion. Tell me the mechanism by which all explanations other than Darwinian Evolution are precluded by the evidence. Until you can do that, you’re JMSU. If you can’t explain the process in detail, then you can’t preclude other explanations. You can speculate as much as you like, super aliens created life, Brahman, Allah, Odin, Zeus....however none of these things actually offer an evidence based explanation or a solution. As it stands, the evidence shows that organisms can and do evolve in response to environment conditions, genetic diversity, etc, or go extinct if change is too rapid. Show me the mechanism and the means that proves that it is Darwinian Evolution as opposed to any other number of speculations.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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All of this presumes "a creator" even exists. I'm still waiting for good evidence to that effect. Will you concede that reality really does exist? Then either reality always existed or something caused it to come into existence.
The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh
Which explains a lot.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2010
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I love this big bang theory. It is so easy to dispel. Just answer this. What went bang and who lit the fuse? If one is to believe that God just exist then one can belive the Big Bang theory that things just went bang. Or Two, or more, objects in space collieded at super high velocity and "Bang"! OK fine. Who make those two or more objects? Everybody saying this started from bla bla bla slammed into each other. Again, where did the blas, blas come from?
I'd rather die in a BAD gunfight than a GOOD nursing home.
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2005
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That is not rational. If it exists it is subject to time as he created it. No no, you missed the point. What is time? It is a human construct, the way we order events in the physical world. A progression, like egg then chicken then dinner. A creator of the physical universe must exist outside the physical world (or he'd have to create himself which is nonsense). Since time exists only in the physical universe by definition a creator cannot be subject to time, time does not exist for him, he exists apart from the physical universe. So it is not irrational to say the creator always existed.
The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh
Which explains a lot.
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,976
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,976 |
I love this big bang theory. It is so easy to dispel. Just answer this. What went bang and who lit the fuse? If one is to believe that God just exist then one can belive the Big Bang theory that things just went bang. Or Two, or more, objects in space collieded at super high velocity and "Bang"! OK fine. Who make those two or more objects? Everybody saying this started from bla bla bla slammed into each other. Again, where did the blas, blas come from? Asking "who" biases the question. If you weren't so biased you would ask something like "how" or "why".
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2005
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I love this big bang theory. It is so easy to dispel. Just answer this. What went bang and who lit the fuse? It is accepted that the universe is expanding, nobody seriously disputes that. So run the movie backwards and everything contracts to a single point. Where that singularity came from is another question.
The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh
Which explains a lot.
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,293
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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OK, if i'm Asking "who" biases the question.
If you weren't so biased you would ask something like "how" or "why". put your words where you may but the question remains the same.
I'd rather die in a BAD gunfight than a GOOD nursing home.
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