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6.5 Grendel vs. 7.62x39 #14040385 08/10/19
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Joe Offline OP
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I know this is like a member of AA going to a bar asking for advice on party drinks. ;)but I need guidance on whether to purchase a CZ-527 6.5 Grendel. Intended use would be shooting at the range and W/T deer at ranges less than 100 yards but (and here comes the muddying of the water) I already have the Carbine in 7.62x39 which has proven to be a 1 MOA shooter. Plus it is very handy for carrying through dense underbrush where I hunt and I have a vast supply of components for the 7.62 shortski.
Has anyone ever seen or used both cartridges on deer and could you see one being superior over the other?

300 BP

Re: 6.5 Grendel vs. 7.62x39 [Re: Joe] #14041674 08/11/19
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Inside 100 yards, just about anything goes when it comes to whitetail deer. It just comes down to whether or not you want another pony in the stable.

In my pantheon of deer chamberings, there seems to be this muddy middle ground that starts just below 30-30 WIN. Folks will say: "It's in the same class with 30-30." They say that about 7.62X39, they say it about 357 Mag. A lot of times it gets misconstrued to the point where folks think they're all equivocal cartridges, and they're not. Personally, I'm kind of hesitant to venture too far into that murk. By hunting with the 7.62 shortski (I like that, btw) you're already shown you're more comfortable with the idea.

My sponsor in Rifles Anonymous would usually take me through the following exercise:

Ode to a 30-30 PT 1

Bob and I used to spend hours on the line with each other talking the other down from purchasing a new firearm. I have to say that Bob was more successful dissuading me over the years than I was with him. Bob recently died, so I'm completely off the rails. You have my sympathy.


Genesis 9:2-4 Ministries Lighthearted Confessions of a Cervid Serial Killer
Re: 6.5 Grendel vs. 7.62x39 [Re: Joe] #14041680 08/11/19
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Pappy348 Offline
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Had one of the CZ Grendels, and it was a bit disappointing accuracy-wise, both with the Hornady SST factory ammo and some handloads with LRABs. Not awful, just not what I'd expect from a CZ. When my Fieldcraft landed, it was lighter and shot better right off, so I bailed on the CZ. Some bedding might have turned it around, but I also got fed up with the inconvenience of the CRF/DM combination. Even bought a Bob's Sled SS adapter for range use; a big help BTW.

FWIW, I bought a Howa Mini 7.62x39 for my grandson to use for a few years, and he nailed a spike at 100 or so with steel-cased Hornady 123gr SSTs. Pass-through, short dash, drop.

If I ever Grendel again, it will be a Mini, with DIP bottom metal, and maybe a Brownell's stock, but that Fieldcraft is still here, and a new Alpine, so there's definitely no hole to fill.

Last edited by Pappy348; 08/11/19.

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Re: 6.5 Grendel vs. 7.62x39 [Re: Joe] #14041693 08/11/19
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Pappy348 Offline
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John Haviland tested a CZ like mine during the time I had it, and his didn't seem to do much better, plus velocities were considerably lower than published. Lovely little rifles, but I'm over 'em.


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Re: 6.5 Grendel vs. 7.62x39 [Re: Joe] #14041861 08/11/19
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Joe Offline OP
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Thanks fellows. I can feel my enthusiasm waning even barely tripping the meter.:-)

Alpha

Re: 6.5 Grendel vs. 7.62x39 [Re: Joe] #14042117 08/11/19
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You'll run the risk of being branded an old fuddy duddy, if ya don't jump on the Creedmore bandwagon? wink

Buddy of mine bought a new M7 SS/synthetic in 260, some years ago. It was the greatest thing at the time. Last year he got a 6.5 Creedmore and now that is the greatest thing. Any time I ask him WTH the difference is, he tends to get testy and points out that I don't shoot any cartridge that hasn't been around since before 1968,

Had a Ruger Mini 30 for years and would've liked to have given it a whirl for deer, but they're still not legal for deer here..My hunch, would've made a dandy brush carbine.


If three or more people think you're a dimwit, chances are at least one of them is right.
Re: 6.5 Grendel vs. 7.62x39 [Re: Joe] #14042479 08/11/19
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Ask any Vietnam vet that was in the middle of the real chit about the x39,then get some soft-points and go hunting...

Re: 6.5 Grendel vs. 7.62x39 [Re: Joe] #14043916 08/11/19
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I recently killed a hog (about 80 lbs.) at over 300 yards with a borrowed Grendel and 129 Nosler AB. This rifle with trajectory pretty similar to .308W probaly is a better hunting caliber than 7.62X39 Russian but if you are sure to be 100 yards or less most anything reasonable will work.


"You win no crown of laurel for outrunning a jackass" - Martialis
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Re: 6.5 Grendel vs. 7.62x39 [Re: Joe] #14045162 08/12/19
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Given that the Commie round has been killing humans around the globe over the past six-plus decades and at ranges well past 100 yards, one might think it is pretty damn capable? Hundreds of thousands of dead people can't be wrong.


If three or more people think you're a dimwit, chances are at least one of them is right.
Re: 6.5 Grendel vs. 7.62x39 [Re: Joe] #14045179 08/12/19
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I prefer the 6.5, but if I had an accurate 39, and shots under 100 yds, no benefit.

Good hunting.

Bravo

Re: 6.5 Grendel vs. 7.62x39 [Re: Joe] #14048490 08/13/19
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Pappy348 Offline
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Originally Posted by Joe
Thanks fellows. I can feel my enthusiasm waning even barely tripping the meter.:-)


Make no mistake, I'm a big fan of the Grendel and think it's an incredibly useful round; just a bit disappointed in my particular example. You appear to be well-equipped for the purposes you descibed already. Longer ranges would let the 6.5 shine.

FWIW, CZ states their 7.62s are designed to shine with milsurp-type ammo. When I bought the Mini, I ordered 100 rounds of the Hornady, sighted it in, and turned it over to my son for his boy to use. When I get it back, I'll get the stuff I need for cranking out my own. At the rate the boy's growing, shouldn't be long.


What fresh Hell is this?

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Re: 6.5 Grendel vs. 7.62x39 [Re: Joe] #14049044 08/13/19
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Originally Posted by Joe
I know this is like a member of AA going to a bar asking for advice on party drinks. ;)but I need guidance on whether to purchase a CZ-527 6.5 Grendel. Intended use would be shooting at the range and W/T deer at ranges less than 100 yards but (and here comes the muddying of the water) I already have the Carbine in 7.62x39 which has proven to be a 1 MOA shooter. Plus it is very handy for carrying through dense underbrush where I hunt and I have a vast supply of components for the 7.62 shortski.
Has anyone ever seen or used both cartridges on deer and could you see one being superior over the other?

Only because you already have the 7.62x39 carbine get the 6.5.


If you need Buffalo Bore you are using the wrong cartridge.
Re: 6.5 Grendel vs. 7.62x39 [Re: Joe] #14049512 08/14/19
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Tejano Offline
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I think the 527 with a few modifications is a nice package. I don't shoot any auto loaders and they feel awkward to me so an easy choice get the Grendel. Like a lot of factory rifles I wouldn't be discouraged if it didn't shoot that well right off the bat. I would be if after bedding and load work up it didn't shoot but I don't think that is the norm for a 527.

There is something to be said for going American at least in the cartridge design if not the rifle. The Grendel would be great for young or novice shooters and for under 200 yard shots.


"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
Re: 6.5 Grendel vs. 7.62x39 [Re: Tejano] #14049642 08/14/19
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Pappy348 Offline
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I could do very nicely with a Ruger American Grendel as well, but am familiar with and like the Howas. Keeping my fingers crossed for the promised blind magazine/hinged floorplate versions.

Totally unnecessary of course, because as mentioned, my 6mm Fieldcraft is lighter than any of them, and the Alpine as light. Nice as it was, my 527 wasn't really light. Have to also consider the 6.5 brass, ammo and bullets still on hand.....


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Re: 6.5 Grendel vs. 7.62x39 [Re: Joe] #14068113 08/22/19
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If you have a x39 that shoots about MOA and taking short shots you don't need a different gun. But if you need an excuse then absolutely the 6.5 Grendel is a better mouse trap. I don't know about the CZ as I've never had one, but have seen some great shooting AR's in Grendel. To be honest though, at the short ranges almost anything will work with the right ammo.


“You never need fear a man, no matter what his size. When danger threatens, call on me, and I will equalize.”
Samuel Colt.

�Common sense is genius dressed up in work clothes.� - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Re: 6.5 Grendel vs. 7.62x39 [Re: Joe] #14069132 08/22/19
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Years ago back in the 1960's, I knew a trapper who harvested his venison with a 22 MAG rifle. He told me that he made head or neck shots out to about 75 yards or so and his scoped rifle worked quite well for him. I am not advocating for the 22 MAG, just sharing that a careful shot and patient hunter can do quite well with a less than ideal deer rifle.

The Russian 7.62 X 39 cartridge has a lot going for it to make ethical kill shots (chest organs) to approx 125 yards or so. In my opinion, the 6.5 Grendel fills a niche for the AR platform but not for a bolt action carbine. If it were me, I would be happy with the 7.62 little Russian cartridge.

Sherwood


FIRE UP THE GRILL - is NOT catch and release!
Re: 6.5 Grendel vs. 7.62x39 [Re: Joe] #14069300 08/22/19
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I have killed deer, antelope and domestic sheep with the 6.8SPC and the 7.62X39, and I have killed deer and antelope with the 6.5 Grendel.

Bullets that I have used are as follows:
6.8SPC.
100 grain Remingtons. -- 27 kills. (Excellent results, super fast drops and all exited but one. Remington screwed us and no longer sells them however. Accuracy is about 1.2 MOA, which is niot as good as some others, but just fine for shots out to about 450 yards which is getting out there for a 6.8. None of these cartridges are what I would use past 400 yards on game no matter how accurate they were)
110 Grain Barnes --1 kill. Neck shot at a deer. Perfect hit and instant kill, but not a real test of the bullet because a 22 would have dropped it as fast with an identical hit.
110 grain Sierra. --2 kills. Both hits to the chest, one hit a shoulder bone. Both bullet were on the ribs or skin on the off sides, but came apart and left only empty jackets, but both deer, one mid size buck and one large doe dropped instantly.
115 grain Remington FMJs -- 2 kills. Sheep. Both chest shot. Both moved about 4 seconds after the shots and fell. Both had exits from obvious tumbling. Exits were elliptical and about the size of an egg.
130 grain Winchester Power Points 3 kills. All 3 were deer, 1 white tail buck, one whitetail doe and on mule deer buck. 2 fell at the shots and one ran about 15 feet after the hit and dropped in some brush. All left good exits including the mule deer buck which was hit through one shoulder bone.

6.5 Grendel
125 grain Nosler Partitions -- 2 kills. One was a bang-flop and the other put the antelope down in about 2 seconds. Both exited. Excellent results.
129 grain Hornady inner-lock--- 3 kills. All antelope does. Hits were obvious and they ran about 25-40 yards and fell. 2 exits and one good mushroom inside the ribs.
129 grain Hornady SSTs --- 3 kills. 1 antelope buck and 2 antelope does. All went about 30 -40 yards after the hits. 2 exits, one on the buck and one doe. One doe hit from the front, but I was not able to recover the bullet.

7.62X39 123 grain Russian SP --- 5 kills antelope and white tails. All were excellent with all dropping within about 2-3 seconds, and all exits
122 grain Russian hollow points 2 kills Both white tail does. Total fragmentation of both bullets and no exits. deer ran about 30 yards after being hit. One stopped and stood for about 10 seconds after the short run and then fell.
154 grain Russian Soft Points 2 kills. Small amount of expansion with exits the size of nickels. Both white tail does. Deer stayed up for about 10 seconds after the hits.
All the kills listed for this cartridge were made with Russian factory ammo but one. That kill was made with a 123 grain Speer bullet, hand-loaded (military bullet pulled and replaced with this bullet) on a large bodied mule deer. The deer fell in about 4 seconds leaving the bullet on the ribs on the off side expanded well, but the core was loose in the jacket when I removed it. That deer hung at 171 pounds.
123 grain FMJ. 5 sheep. All did exactly what I expected. 4 Dropped the sheep in 3-6 seconds and one fell instantly. All exited. Exit wounds often veer off course in the bodies.

Bullets matter more then cartridge cases, but so far what I have seen is the speed that the 7.62X39 dropped game and the speed of the 6.5 Grendel are about the same.

The 6.8 puts them down faster, but is not as flat shooting as the 6.5 G. or not as cheep to shoot as the 7.62X39.

All work very well if you give them bullet that work well.

Re: 6.5 Grendel vs. 7.62x39 [Re: Joe] #14070564 08/23/19
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Joe Offline OP
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Thank you for all the useful information. I doubt a Grendel will be living here.

Re: 6.5 Grendel vs. 7.62x39 [Re: Joe] #14070995 08/23/19
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257Bob Offline
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I have owned two 7.62x39 chambered rifles, a custom built mini-mauser and a ruger bolt action. I sold the mini but still have the Ruger m77 with Zytel stock, Timney trigger and Leupold 6x36 scope. I have lots of fancy rifles and bought this as a beater to ride on my ATW when doing farm chores. This little rifle has become a favorite, very accurate, durable and a deer killer out to 100 yards. My sons used it many times while they were young successfully with one shot kills on deer. I think it's best suited in the Eastern woods, would not be my choice for wide open spaces. Of all the rifles I've bought and sold, this is one I would not part with.


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Re: 6.5 Grendel vs. 7.62x39 [Re: Joe] #14081191 08/27/19
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I have both but like the Grendel better. I bought a couple of bolt guns in the Grendel but the round is designed for the AR to get the most out of it. Bolt guns have no real overall length issues so you are better off buying a lightweight 7-08 or if you are into the modern gay scene the Creedmire.

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