Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors What the heck of I got? Weigh in..

300 Savage, 22" barrel.

Feel free to ask questions.

A Tinkerbell special?

What's the SN?

Serial number is 65 off of my lucky EG. So shipped mid-1945.

Does the buttstock SN match?
Maybe a 99T with a Pre-war R butt (3 pt checkering) that has been modified on the cheeks?

An appealing Savage 99 that I would be proud to own. GW

Buttstock cut, receiver d&t, bolt jewelled. Last 4 of serial written on end of buttstock, but in this case that means nothing probably (unless it was sent back to factory for the no-slip buttplate that's on it ).

PS: It's a perfect fit to the receiver though.

PPS: Checkering line count of buttstock, side panels and forearm are all 20 lines per inch. Buttstock checkering doesn't match the early 99R/99RS checkering exactly, the forearm checkering doesn't match the 99T checkering.

Sweet find Rory!

An RT? A custom order or a factory prototype? Looks too good!!! Like the tang safety feature!

The serial number in the 42XXXX range, I suspect.

Yes, mid-429,xxx.

RT with altered checkering was my first thought. But I'm waffling now.

Since it hasn't been mentioned I'm either imaging things or the patterns that were used are know... But, I have a Savage catalog ( reprint ) that mentions different levels of checkering. If I recall correctly, I think there were several levels available. From looking at the pictures the checkering looks pretty decent. Maybe some of the fancier checkering options included more lines per inch? In any case, it's an interesting rifle.

You're a tinkerbell at heart, even if you didn't do the deed. I like it for the most part.

The recoil pad and d&t are obviously tinkerbell.

But the rest?

That's the question. And if it's not.. what is this gun?

Also has marks on the receiver where it wore a receiver peep sight. Redfield 70 or Lyman 56/57.

Looks like factory checkering except the single line border on the side panels and the forearm pattern. Does it have anything stamped on the front of the receiver?


Lee

Was waiting for that question.

Yes.

E G

And on the rear of the T style forearm is stamped:

E G

Clears things up, eh?

Oh, and the bottom of the barrel is a killer.

Stamped with last 3 of the serial number, and also:
8

And under the 8 is:

R

Upgraded checkering is an option that crossed my mind. K style checkering maybe, adapted to fit a solid frame?

Well that clears that up It must be an EG-K-R-T-RT. Did I miss any?

Lee

Missed one.

Don't know what it is but I would be happy to own it, it looks great. Bet it has a great feel to carry Rory

Johno

A very nice, non original Savage.

LLets talk about the safety. Any chance for pictures of the internals?

One of the first 99's I had, years ago, was an R in .300, with checkered cheeks very well done. The butt stock and the forearm numbered to the gun. I knew next to nothing about Savages at the time; it most likely had been added by someone who knew what they were doing.

Could get that, as soon as I get motivated and find my stock screwdriver.

It is an interesting piece of the puzzle.

Regardless of What It Is, "It" is Nice!!

Start with the tang externals.

Here is the mystery gun tang safety, versus... a model 420 shotgun safety. The shotgun that wears the same stamp as the Spiegel EG.

Hmm. Same?

If I recall correctly the RTs have 22" barrels; I know my .303 Savage does and I have notes on one .300 22".

Looks like an RT with specially checkered wood with the add ons; worth a lettering? ... Gotta be a 99RST

How in the he!! are you going to get the buttstock off with that safety?

I would absolutely love to letter this. But.. 1945. No ledgers. All they have are serial numbers on shipping invoices. Can't even confirm model or caliber.

I lettered my lucky EG that's only 65 or so serial numbers off of this one. That's all they had.


Yeah, I was looking at it. Have to unscrew the tang safety and hope it comes out easily, and is easily reassembled.

Ha ha ha... I think I'm holding off on that for now.

Unscrew the tang safety and BONNGG, have the plastic bag ready.

Rory
we have talked about that style safety before you walked by a 99EG R&D gun with that style safety also one was made in

New York I have the paper work on that one but can't find in right now WE could have looked at lot more stuff if you had not found

Marden's

I remember that EG, we talked about it and chatted about the dual sided safety that I think Loggah has. But I didn’t snap a pic of yours, so I wasn’t sure if the tang safety matched. I know there were some aftermarket versions sold. When I saw the safety on a 420 on the way home, it sure looked identical. The aftermarket ones were usually attached to the end of the tang if I remember right.

1) Between the RS studs, the fact it wore a receiver sight at one time, and the R and 8 stamped on the barrel, I think this was a special order postwar RS with improved checkering and factory installed tang safety. The major argument against that is the 22” barrel, since R’s in 300 always had 24” barrel.

But then I’ve always believed the RTs were a transition from prewar R to postwar R.

2) Second “likely” possibility to me is a prototype or R&D gun.

3) Last is that it’s a total rat from oddball parts done aftermarket.

We’ll never know for sure, everyone can just pick the theory of their choice.

This dog’s gonna get hunted in November tho!

Time to review some tang safeties on early 99’s. This is the one that I remember seeing the most. I think this is a dual tang/lever safety.

This aftermarket set still in the box is closer, but doesn’t match mine, I don’t believe.

I owned the Nelson prototype rifle the safety is not in the same position. How does it look next to a 1920 safety? The shotgun is not a perfect match.
The rifle long beard king has is interesting as well but I have not seen the safety mounted stictly in the wood like yours.

At first blush your rifle looked like something a talented firm made like G&H and thier competition , I have also owned a rifle in the no letter range that had checkered cheeks and it to looked right to me.

Griffin & Howe wasn’t a bad idea. Just checked, not on their list.

I don’t know what it is but I’m pretty sure what it’s not. It’s not a standard catalog offering. However, I would say you have someone’s mildly customized 99.

The tang safety looks like the one in patent US2465699 by Wilfred Smith and assigned to Savage Arms - applied for Dec 1946... so the date is close. (the patent is on the patents CD from the Savage Fest). The safety is shown separate from the tang and the exposed part that catches the lever is shaped the same as yours. Looking at the patent, one screw should allow the safety button to lift up so the so the stock can be removed. You might have the prototype, it logical they would have used a safety button they already had so it might be exactly the same as the shotgun's.


Here's one by Charles Nelson for 1917, a little more complicated. (also on the CD)

The rifle came from the maine area?

Yep. Dick & Craig’s at Wildwood, of all places.

Good find, Gene! Knew of the early one, didn’t know of the 1946.

The 22" 300 Sav brl is common to the RT's of that period.

Forearm appears to be RT (not T).

Butt stock appears to be mid 30's (fluted, 3 pt) RS. Best scenario, something in stock that they used because it was there? Optional K checkering and optional recoil pad...? Down hill from there...someone swapped parts.

What does the recoil pad look like?

Rick, the buttstock checkering is slightly different than early 30’s R checkering (the line across the top behind the safety, for example). Compared it to one I have. Stock might be leftover, but I think it was finished and checkered with the gun. The buttstock also matches the ads and catalog pictures for the R/RS in 45-47, which still showed 3pt checkering. Or as you say, like K checkering. Though forearm obviously doesn’t match.

Recoil pad is a “NO - SLIP BUTT PLATE” made by “FRAY - MERSHON INC.” of L.A. Caliif. The white line spacer in it makes me think a 60’s/70’s replacement, probably same time as the d&t.

Well... ain’t this interesting. I’d have lost this bet.

The White-Line recoil pad by Fray-Mershon was available starting in late 30’s and up into the 40’s at least. Fray-Mershon was bought by Pachmeyer in 1955. Which means the white line no slip buttplate could possibly date to late 40’s. Fray-Mershon even had a trademark on White Line in 1937.


http://www.lcsmith.org/faq/recoilpad.html

Okay How about picts of the D&T? Most all of that collection went out that way. I think Kittery pedaled a bunch of it.

Thought I'd replied to this, but I don't see my reply.

Gene, I agree. The first patent application looks exactly like my safety, from the separation from the tang, to the one screw behind the safety, to the hook on the side the slides forward into the lever safety area. And I don't see any spring-loaded gotcha's in that drawing or in the patent description, so I might attempt to remove the buttstock after all. Tomorrow.

My copy of the CD with all the patents has gone AWOL, probably buried under assorted stuff on my messy desk. Time to clean the desk, I suppose... <shudder>

Fug's prototype EG with a tang safety looks extremely similar to mine. The only difference is where mine has one screw behind the tang safety and an S in front of it, his has a screw both behind and in front of the safety and no S. Same loop on the side that engages where the lever safety did as mine, as well as the same button for the safety. I'd guess his might be the initial prototype for patent 2465699, and mine a final one?


The d&t is just standard holes through the top, right through the SAVAGE MODEL 99 stamp. Had Weaver #14/#19 bases on it, so that's the ONE thing I'm fairly confident doesn't date to 1945.

Oops.. missed that a bent spring is involved in part 32 in the diagram. I would guess that it doesn't come out just by removing the screw.... but now I'm paranoid again. Hmm.

Look at it again, to me it looks like the spring is attached to the small base for the safety and the button has a cross pin under the spring to hold it on and in position, it's a small assembly that should all come out all in one piece by removing the one screw.... nothing should go flying.. but is it exactly the same as the patent drawing? that is still an unanswered question. When you start to get the screw loose, wrap a plastic bag around it if your unsure.

I would think the single screw might have been thought to not be sturdy enough, it might be the original version.

Looking at it again I would not be to surprised to find that the spring is not a separate piece but part of the base that was punched on three side with one end left attached, it's shown as the same thickness. When I worked with punch press we used tooling to make similar formed 'prongs' that would be parted on three sides and formed in a single hit of the tool set. That part could be made as a single piece with just three different tools sets, maybe just two. Savage was very experienced with stamping out small sheet metal parts, look at some of the sights.

Capturing the pieces as they fly apart on disassembly doesn't worry me too much.

It's whether it's tricky to re-assemble that worries me.

What is the serial range of Doug's rifle and your rifle? Any help as to which safety is earlier?

I think Fug told me his gun was about 500,000 - so it'd be 2 years later than mine by serial number. In real time, no idea when they finished working on mine, obviously.

Here's Fug's:

Well, paint me surprised.....

Anybody recall an extra available in the early 20’s up to early 40’s called “Damascening of bolt and finger lever”? Cost just a bit less than getting K style engraving at $10 vs $12 in 1928 thru 1931).

And that we’ve never seen a gun with finger lever damascened?

I think we have one now.

Pictures will be up sometime today. Can’t say it’s my favorite feature on the lever...

Everything on this gun might be freaking factory except the d&t. At this point, not sure I want to rule that out.

Okay, finally getting around to posting this.

So.. is this the first factory example of "Damascening of Bolt and Finger Lever" that we've seen? Yet another thing we'll never be sure of.. unless we find others like it.

From 1934 price list:

How about of the pad? Pictures please. I really like that rifle

Not a pad, since there's practically no give to it. It's labelled a No-Slip Butt Plate, and I'd call it a replacement buttplate. I did some searching, but didn't find any Fray-Merson buttplates stamped like this. Most of the stamps are vertical on the buttplates.




Here's one on a Win 52, but only a side pic.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...l-52--22-long-rifle.cfm?gun_id=100923381

Don't know if you missed it, but it's Fray-Mershon not Merson. May affect your search.

My bloody computer keeps autocorrecting it to Merson. I have had to repeat some searches. Argh.

My 1935 vintage EG has a damascened bolt. I always figured it was aftermarket. The lever is case hardened.

Yep, I’ve got a couple 1899s/99s with damascened bolts also, and I’m sure they were aftermarket. Savage WOULD do it, especially on special orders, but not normally on everyday 99s.

Since we’ve never seen a damascened lever, I’d totally forgotten they listed this option for so long. Fug said he can’t recall seeing one with the lever done either. Doesn’t mean mine is definitely factory... but never say never.

"Since we’ve never seen a damascened lever,..."

I've seen it on several special order early rifles.

Here's one...

Very cool! Does look like mine. Any idea of the date or serial number range on that one?

Going to add this in here.. a 99T in 300 Savage with 22" barrel that sold at Rock Island Auction a while back.

But the serial number is 425,527. Should fall into late 1944 or early 1945.

Obviously a 99T, with 99T checkering. This one falls 4000 serial numbers under the earliest 99RT's we've seen. My rifle falls right at the beginning of the 99RT range.

Life would be boring without mysteries.

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/68/116/savage-model-99-lever-action-rifle

Savage employs found some left over parts and put it together.

That begs the question: just how loose was Savage's inventory control? We constantly see factory rifles built with parts odds and ends from previous models. Was their production control department in the grips of a culture of "three martini lunches"?

One would have to assume that it’s a put together rifle.

Possible... maybe they had a finished and checkered 99T stock, and they sorted through receivers until they found one to fit. Otherwise they'd have had to set up for doing 99T checkering, odd if they'd done it for just a couple guns. Or not?


Last mention of the 99T on catalogs or pricelists I think was on the November, 1940 price list.

By January 1941 and the #75 catalog they only listed the 99G, 99EG, 99R/99RS.
By January 1942 and the #76 catalog they only listed the 99EG, 99R/99RS.

So leftover parts is the logical answer.

Note the info in the auction:

" The forearm is unnumbered, and the butt stock in numbered to a different gun."

Like Wyo1895 said..."parts". Might have been factory, employee or post factory.

But it still has a 22” 300 Savage barrel, only found on T’s and RT’s. So quite possibly a leftover parts gun, but probably a factory put together parts gun.

Just for info, the 1940 vintage 99H in 300 had a 22" barrel. Leftover 99T barrel?

Good catch, I always forget about that one. Possibly same barrel profile as the 99T, but since they were both catalogued I’ll bet they were making them for both models.

Always struck me as odd that they gave the 99F a 24” barrel in 300, but the 99H got a 22”.

Probably because the other 99H's had 20" barrels and were advertised as short and handy. I thought it would be cool if it had a 20" 300 barrel. I have a 300 T with a serial # that is real close to my 300 H. I'll check them after breakfast and see if they look like the same barrel. The barrel band on the H covers the barrel address but this is common with the 20" H's also.

I'll add this back in since this is a catch-all thread for RT's and very late T's and whatnot...

Fug shared this with us 5 years ago. I'd forgotten about it.

A 99RT forearm with a 1935 serial number stamped on it and the letters "EG".

So was this a leftover T forearm finished and checkered for an RT ten years later, or was there a 1935 rifle (99T?) sent back in for restocking when they were doing the RT's and they stamped it's number on the end?

I'd say this shows both are almost surely factory checkering.

So mine at serial number 429,xxx:




Upgraded EG at serial number 436,xxx.