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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,259 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,259 Likes: 6 |
Oil and gas is subsidized....just like every thing else.
How so? Texas doesn't give oil and gas any tax exemptions? The US Military has not spent any money on oil and gas? You made the assertion, so let's see some examples. Tax incentives aren't subsidies BTW.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884 |
In the biggest picture, one may choose to see military involvement in the Middle East and some elsewhere as a "subsidy" for oil production. I do not think that is entirely a fair charge though, as most likely the world's greatest super power would be involved militarily around the world even if we did not want any oil from there.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,858 Likes: 5
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,858 Likes: 5 |
You made the assertion, so let's see some examples. Tax incentives aren't subsidies BTW.
Ok, I’ll play. Federal tax exemptions And let’s say we pay for only ONE carrier group extra in the world to ensure steady flow of oil. That, alone, works out to a $20/barrel subsidy on every barrel of oil imported. What a steal!
Sic Semper Tyrannis
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,202
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,202 |
The numbers and stated “facts” in that article are laughable.
Gas generation costs $0.02 per kWh
Solar costs $0.08.
It’s actually closer to the other way around.
You have to have fossil fuel plants to back up solar. No you don’t. I just got a quote for a solar array for the farm, including battery backup. Payback period is less than five years.
And so on, and so on........... There's a huge difference in powering a "farm" and powering the public in general. Batteries can't supply power for extended periods without recharging. A few days without enough sun and you'd be in the dark. You are correct that in a few days without sun, you'd be in the dark, but there are ways around that. Have the electric company hook up a meter that shows what you put into the grid and gives you credit for it. Then on occasions that you use more power than you produce, the electric company uses those credits to pay your bill. Got a friend that has that set-up. Gets a $6/mth electric bill, for the special meter, and 1 or 2 times a year, in the winter, he gets a $30 electric bill. And, he has done away with the battery backup...... they are a pain in the wazoo My friend hasn't 'cut the cord' competely, but it's about as close as you can get and still have power all the time. $150 a year more than pays for his electricity. The claim was there was no need for back up, but your solution is to rely on the grid, which proves what I said.
One shot, one kill........ It saves a lot of ammo!
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,527 Likes: 21
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,527 Likes: 21 |
How are tax breaks not a subsidy?
What was this Direct cash subsidy that wind was getting?
Any installation up here was a tax credit...not a direct cash payment.
I am MAGA.
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,259 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,259 Likes: 6 |
What specific tax breaks do oil companies get?
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,527 Likes: 21
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,527 Likes: 21 |
You mean like paying no tax for the first year after completion?
I am MAGA.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 22,736
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 22,736 |
Ask Germany how that wind and solar are working out for them. Can you say - lookout for that coal truck! The dumb bastards let "climate change" putrify their brains!
Last edited by bigwhoop; 08/26/19.
My home is the "sanctuary residence" for my firearms.
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,160 Likes: 14
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,160 Likes: 14 |
Maybe we should tap into septic tanks for methane. Liberal population centers would be a gold mine.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,527 Likes: 21
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,527 Likes: 21 |
Methane digesters.....very smelly.
I am MAGA.
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,259 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,259 Likes: 6 |
You mean like paying no tax for the first year after completion? Not a subsidy. a tax incentive for sure which I have zero problems with for obvious reasons. Try doing without those Texas "subsidized" oil wells and see how that works out. FYI, around here they pay school and property taxes on them from day uno.
Last edited by JGRaider; 08/26/19.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,527 Likes: 21
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,527 Likes: 21 |
How is that not a subsidy?
I am MAGA.
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,259 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,259 Likes: 6 |
How is that not a subsidy? A tax deferral isn't a subsidy either.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 79,321 Likes: 2
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 79,321 Likes: 2 |
Off the grid is a non-starter. What powers the grid is another tale entirely. I will wait patiently for them to sort out the fusion option. Works for the sun, we might oughta figure out how to do it here.
Simple Dan It's coming. https://techcrunch.com/2019/06/27/a...tor-just-got-a-roughly-50-million-boost/
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,950
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,950 |
I worked 40 years with a natural gas company as an engineer. Gas is taxed at the wellhead when sold to a transmission company. It is taxed again when it is sold to individual local companies, towns, and cities. Then it is taxed again before it is sold to you. Between federal, state, and local taxes, you might be paying double what it cost coming out of the ground. Now I didn't see anywhere along the line where it was subsidized ever. Solar and wind are subsidized to get people to use it. Not working out to well. Wind can match natural gas costs for production of electricity, but only if the wind blows. Solar can't really and is only really effective in the Southwest.
As someone said. If you want no CO2 emissions, nuclear is the only option. Not even hydro power can match nuclear. Most cost effective dams have already been built. The Mississippi/Ohio/Missouri river system can't be dammed up because of river transportation and it would create HUGE lakes and cover too much farmland.
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,160 Likes: 14
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,160 Likes: 14 |
Interesting developments. HE3 would make it more tractable. We need to send miners to the moon.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 16,394 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 16,394 Likes: 1 |
I've maintained for years - that high-intensity incineration of our garbage could generate electricity. (Although requiring sophisticated "scrubbers")
Thus helping solve 2 problems at once.
Would it work - or not? And why?
I've always been a curmudgeon - now I'm an old curmudgeon.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 5,670 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 5,670 Likes: 1 |
I've maintained for years - that high-intensity incineration of our garbage could generate electricity. (Although requiring sophisticated "scrubbers")
Thus helping solve 2 problems at once.
Would it work - or not? And why? Depending on the DEQ standards on the scrubbers! Those trying are fighting tight restrictions! Mix in biomass and you have cheap power. The national forests are full of biomass! Again standards need met, this time EPA and law suits from the greenies! Can it be done yes! It's being done, but not effectively!
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,403 Likes: 5
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,403 Likes: 5 |
This happened a few years ago along the Columbia River in OR and WA. They had a very high water spring and the hydro power plants were running full time. The grid was overloaded and they had to cut back on the power. There are 1000's of windmills scattered along the gorge and they shut them all down.
In normal industry, if you over produce, you shut down production, lay people off, and tough it out until your inventory drops to meet demand. Not with the windmills. The Bonneville Power Admin, the federal agency that oversees power production in the PNW, shut down the windmills but PAID THEM FOR THE POWER THEY DIDN'T PRODUCE. Your tax money at work, paying to not produce.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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