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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 18,994
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2008
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“In science it often happens that scientists say, "You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken," and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion.” Carl Sagan
Leo of the Land of Dyr
NRA FOR LIFE
I MISS SARAH
“In Trump We Trust.” Right????
SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 32,206 Likes: 5
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 32,206 Likes: 5 |
How can you sufficiently explain science to folks who's minds are trapped in the paradigm of backward ancient myths and superstitions?
iTs no coincidence that folks with such subjective fabled religious beliefs often compound them with modern day conspiracy beliefs.
They fear science aims to undermine Bible and thus likely the work of the devil...computer barcodes and Mother energy drink = tools of the devil.
if only they could round up the people responsible and burn at the stake , hang them or drown them like witches in Salem.
of course where desperate prayers aren't working to save their bacon..they don't mind using the evil sciences of modern medicine drugs, cartridge propellants and polymer guns.
Does anyone really know of one Christian that prefers to start praying before the idea of reaching for his gun? Now I'm really worried about me....
The only true cost of having a dog is its death.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,724 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,724 Likes: 2 |
Science deals with research and testing, not divine revelation.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,097
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,097 |
DBT,,, If we you look at past ancient civilizations, divine revelation often came through the influence of hallucinogens. ultimately it comes back to brain chemistry science trial and error drug experimentation. ...
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554 |
How can you sufficiently explain science to folks who's minds are trapped in the paradigm of backward ancient myths and superstitions?
iTs no coincidence that folks with such subjective fabled religious beliefs often compound them with modern day conspiracy beliefs.
They fear science aims to undermine Bible and thus likely the work of the devil...computer barcodes and Mother energy drink = tools of the devil. And then there is Georges Lemaitre, mathematician, astronomer, physicist. Also a Catholic priest, Jesuit trained no less. He was the first to identify that the recession of nearby galaxies can be explained by a theory of an expanding universe, which was observationally confirmed soon afterwards by Edwin Hubble. So when you run the clock backwards to a sinularity, 13.7 or 11.7 billion years ago, you're dealing with Lemaitre's equations. And no, he wasn't burned at the stake, or even subjected to house arrest.
The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh
Which explains a lot.
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 18,994
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 18,994 |
And then there is Georges Lemaitre, mathematician who lived in the 20th century; not the 13tn century. Lucky for him.
Leo of the Land of Dyr
NRA FOR LIFE
I MISS SARAH
“In Trump We Trust.” Right????
SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,343 Likes: 34
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,343 Likes: 34 |
Creationists are out by about 14 billion years. They always miss that point I say this one only goes 12 pages. Depends of your settings.
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time. --Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice. --ironbender
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25,143 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25,143 Likes: 2 |
Stupid scientists!
Next thing you know they’ll try to convince us the internet is real! Hahahah!!!!
Wait....what?
“Life is life and fun is fun, but it's all so quiet when the goldfish die.”
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Joined: May 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554 |
Well, there's The Vatican Observatory founded in 1891 (at Castle Gandolfo for LoTR fans) And astronomy goes back further, Gregorian calendar 1582. And way back to the dark ages. Who do you think preserved scientific literary works in that time period? Monks going mad copying books all day, every day. And that was only what I've picked up in passing.
BTW what really pissed the pope off wasn't what Galileo wrote but he published before the pope was ready to grant his approval. Something not done in those days.
The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh
Which explains a lot.
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554 |
Stupid scientists!
Next thing you know they’ll try to convince us the internet is real! Hahahah!!!!
Wait....what? Hell, they can't even decide if Pluto is a planet - depends on which one you ask. Almost as bad as the Campfire.
The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh
Which explains a lot.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 19,279 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 19,279 Likes: 6 |
Doesn't matter. It existed when I got here, and I expect it to be doing fine when I exit. This^^^^ kwg
For liberals and anarchists, power and control is opium, selling envy is the fastest and easiest way to get it. TRR. American conservative. Never trust a white liberal. Malcom X Current NRA member.
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,789 Likes: 2 |
The generally accepted age of the universe is 13.7 billion years, based on a Hubble Constant of 70.
Jee’s team came up with a Hubble Constant of 82.4, which would put the age of the universe at around 11.4 billion years.
Really? You lot are in a pissing match about two billion years, or not as the case may very well be. There is only one certainty in this whole pointless subject...whatever that ring twit comes up with is wrong.
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Joined: Mar 2007
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2007
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Hell, they can't even decide if Pluto is a planet - depends on which one you ask...
I didnt think it was considered anything less than a dwarf planet. now lets talk about the 1960s Vatican reforms that demoted saints by taking their A-list class halos away. folks spent centuries puffing up such legends to have them suddenly ... now if they had just applied stringent protocols before ordaining them as saints it all could have been avoided; a waiting period, background checks, trial-grade evidence of extraordinary virtue or martyrdom, a minimum of two miracles, and finally wait for the Holy Spirit to enlighten someone at the Vatican to the fact that something did not or didn't met the criteria of a saint. Stupid scientists!
Next thing you know they’ll try to convince us the internet is real! Hahahah!!!!
I was told yrs ago that the hard-drive space on a computer does not actually comprise of real space as we know it. well its there otherwise you could not fill it up with ones data, but the space the data takes up was never actually there. otherwise known as I.T. metaphysics.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554 |
Of course hard drive space is real. Each data bit occupies physical space consisting of magnetic domains. For more data either you need greater physical size or use fewer domains per bit. Of course space meaning an area within a field.
The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh
Which explains a lot.
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Posts: 11,527 Likes: 6
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 11,527 Likes: 6 |
I haven't read all the posts on this thread, just enough to convince me (again) that there are some really dumb people here.
Look, the way science works is that it observes the evidence, makes a conclusion, and does some observations to test that conslucion. If new evidence shows up, the conclusion can be modified. That has happened MANY TIMES in all branches of science.
Regarding the age of the universe, it was estimated based on calculating the Hubble Constant. (If you don't know what that means, go back to high school.) New observations may change the best estimate of the Hubble constant.
But some things are so certain they will not be overturned based on any evidence. The earth is not 7,000 years old, snakes don't talk, Noah's phony flood never happened, and you can't make striped baby goats by forcing goats to look at striped sticks while they are copulating.
If you want to talk about disagreement, what about the 33,000 different Protestant demoninations, all with a different view of what the Bible actually says.
Last edited by IndyCA35; 09/13/19.
Don't blame me. I voted for Trump.
Democrats would burn this country to the ground, if they could rule over the ashes.
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,554 |
...and you can't make striped baby goats by forcing goats to look at striped sticks while they are copulating. Really? Rasis an interesting question: How did you come to know that?
The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh
Which explains a lot.
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 31,298 Likes: 11
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 31,298 Likes: 11 |
Interesting. You challenge science because they made a revision to an estimate. And you base your ridicule on a bible that has been mistranslated and revised how many times?
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884 |
Look, the way science works is that it observes the evidence, makes a conclusion, and does some observations to test that conclusion. If new evidence shows up, the conclusion can be modified....But some things are so certain they will not be overturned based on any evidence. Oh, back to religion again, then? What you are noting is that all worldviews, at base level, must contain some presupposed certainties upon which to build the rest of their coherent view of how things are explained. Whether one calls this "preunderstandings" or "religion" or "foundational assumptions" or "ontological realities" or "fill-in-the-blank," everybody has them. That, of course, is why scientific constants are not constant. And why Thomas Kuhn wrote his now (in)famous book.
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Posts: 10,424 Likes: 7
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,424 Likes: 7 |
Science has been stuck for 100 years. The only things we can measure for certain are; 1) General Relativity , 2) Quantum Mechanics All that stuff about the age of the universe is based on Doppler shift in light. A photon's frequency is proportional to its energy. If the object is going away fast, there is a red shift. If the object is coming fast, there is blue shift. If there is such a thing as "tired light", then all their calculations about the universe don't work. It all depends on that one unverifyable thing.... that a photon does not get tired in 14 billion years of travel. The math of what we cannot know
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. -Ernest Hemingway The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything.-- Edward John Phelps
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,418 |
Yes, Quantum physics is the deal breaker. I pick creation in however way God imagined it to be. Quantum science takes time and space our of the equation and just confuses mainstream science about the origin of things.
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