|
|
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 4,859
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 4,859 |
[quote=ElkSlayer91]#1 – You “CAN NOT” convert a R22 refrigerant system to R410a refrigerant. The R22 system’s copper is not designed to operate “SAFELY” at the higher pressures of the R410a refrigerant.
#2 – $75- $80 per / hr labor rates is what it cost “over” 20 years ago to cover costs to run a “LEGITIMATE” business on the residential side in the HVAC trade, not a fly-by-night operation who haven’t the slightest clue what they are doing, including not having the first clue about the business side / finance (knowing what their O/H is and what they need to charge to make a 10% NET) and have enough to grow their business and pay respectable living wages.
Today’s “COST ALONE” for a “residential” service truck, with one tech, running down the road is around $115+ per/hr, so how can the company make money when you guys here think they need to be charging 20+ years ago rates, $75-$80?
Today’s copier repair businesses charge presently around $150 per/hr with only $300 worth of tools in their carry bag. I think an electrical / plumbing / HVAC service truck has “just a few” (heavy sarcasm) more dollars in O/H and tools.
Ford dealer charges 150 per / hr labor rates.
Mercedes dealer charges $200 per / hr labor rates.
The copier guy and the dealers get to bill out 2,000 billable hours per year.
The HVAC residential side (SEASONAL BUSINESS) only gets to bill out 1,000-1,200 billable hours a year. THAT MEANS THEY HAVE TO CHARGE TWICE the rate, because they don’t have the number of billable hours to bring it down to dealership / copier rates.
$275,000 gross (1 service truck yearly gross) / 1,000 (billable hours) = $275 per / hr.
If they could bill out 2,000 billable hours it’d look like this below, but it is FINANCIALLY IMPOSSIBLE if you want to be a LEGITIMATE business.
$275,000 gross (1 service truck yearly gross) / 2,000 (billable hours) = $137.50 per / hr.
(CAN NOT WORK FINANCIALLY)
You see that? It’d be $137.50 per / hr, even IF they “could” get 2,000 billable hours…NOT $75-$80 that YOU BRAIN TRUSTS think they should be charging.
Reality is, trades never get the full 2,000 billable hours. You’re doing good if you get 1,700 billable hours in electrical, plumbing, HVAC commercial, other contracting disciplines.
But hey, keep telling everyone they need to keep “searching” for that “CHEAP GUY”,…….so you can have the job REPAIRED correctly down the road, when you have to have it done again, because it was not done right the first time, since you “brain trusts” advise people to hire a guy who works CHEAP for “beer money”.
After all………it won’t cost you “brain trusts” a dime out of your pocket down the road when it got hacked in and broke again…….will it?
And which one of you “brain trusts” thinks a guy who doesn’t have the first clue about running the financial side of his business right and billing what a LEGITIMATE business needs to grow and stay in business, which one of you thinks that cheap azz contractor, billing at beer money wages, knows the technical side good enough to do the job correctly?
Here’s the laughable part…none of you have visibly seen the job. None of you are contractors. None of you know the “SCOPE” of the job…but you “know” what needs to be charged, and not one of you would cut your pay voluntarily, yet you sit here on a public forum spouting your UNEDUCATED tripe to cut another man’s pay trying to make a living and run a LEGITIMATE business, so he can pay his men a good wage…so they can buy their sons / daughters guns and fishing rods / reels to take their sons / daughters fishing and hunting.
$1,760 is cheap to R-R a warranty residential compressor. Average is 2,200-2,500.
It’s an “all day” 8+ hour job when you add running to the supply house to get parts. It is 6-7 hours ON THE JOB “if…done…correctly”.
I get 2 1/2 ton, Trane or Lennox 14 seer heatpumps put in 3 Br 2 bath 1300' +/- homes for $5,500.00 from one of four different local contractors. On crawl space with inside unit hung from joists, flex duct off main trunk.
You can’t be serious, are you? You’re going to sit here and quote “New Construction” pricing on a “retail job”. Please tell me you’re joking, when new construction pricing is “special quoted” to the contractors for “only” new construction to get the business for market share, and the “very fine” margins it brings. Replacing a compressor is not new construction. Retail and new construction are two separate markets, with completely different cost structures and margins. You can not use the same numbers for both or you’ll go broke, but then a lot of constructors prove that every year, because they don’t have a clue about business finance, and have not a clue what a spreadsheet is to understand, or see, how much they are losing. General Contractors take full advantage of it, because there is a line a mile long of uneducated contractors, with zero knowledge in business finance, who are begging to get their foot in the door of the golden pipe dream of new construction, in all the trades. They start a business thinking they will become rich like their previous boss, and wind up going out of business, because they don’t get the truckload pricing their previous boss got for equipment that “can only” make the numbers work on the high volume business plan their previous boss is operating on. They close the door of their business, and walk away wondering how come that hundred home "teaser" the builder gave them, did not provide them the golden egg, after they undercut the present contractor by $50 a ton to get the business. Same song in electrical and plumbing. Only the multi-million operations getting supplies by the 18-wheeler trailer load make money. The smaller builders chew up and spit these new comers out every year. Next victim. Guess your area is a lot different.
$90/hr tops for a good diesel mechanic. Plumbers $75/hr for a plumber AND a helper. Electricians $45/hr tops carpenters $30-$35/hr tops. Those numbers you posted are for paying a sub-contractor by the hour. They could in no way support a legitimate company needing to bill out at retail rates. Rural areas are a little lower, being insurance rates are lower, as well as a few other O/H costs.
Last edited by ElkSlayer91; 09/16/19.
"He is far from Stupid"
”person, who happens to have an above-average level of intelligence”
– DocRocket (In reference to ElkSlayer91)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,224
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,224 |
I’m a mechanical contractor. I started my business back in 2000. My first question is, what is wrong with the compressor exactly? Locked rotor, shorted to ground, short between the windings? It makes a difference because of how the new compressor needs to be installed. You can reply on here or If you’d rather, you can pm me.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,871
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,871 |
I paid about a grand to have my evaporator coil changed under warranty last year. I thought it was a little high but I wasn't one of the 2 techs working in my attic in the middle of the TX summer
Last edited by TxHunter80; 09/16/19.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6
New Member
|
|
New Member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6 |
I'm an HVAC contractor, semi-retired. My first A/C repair was in 1977, so I have some experience. A compressor replacement, done properly, by an experienced tech, normally is a 3 1/2 to 4 hour job. Get another estimate, or two.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 799
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 799 |
This is why I do not like "parts only" warranties. When you need a repair you are trapped and can't really bid it out as a competitive situation.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,537
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,537 |
I disagree about the 70-80 bucks labor rate 20 years ago. Our largest local company, very reputable, does way more commerical and industrial, but their 85 dollar rate may just be for residential. Anyway, as of 2019 its 85 bucks an hour. Talked to another local guy just last week who owns a reputable business concerning warranty repair, and his rate was 75.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,553
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,553 |
#1 – You “CAN NOT” convert a R22 refrigerant system to R410a refrigerant. The R22 system’s copper is not designed to operate “SAFELY” at the higher pressures of the R410a refrigerant.
#2 – $75- $80 per / hr labor rates is what it cost “over” 20 years ago to cover costs to run a “LEGITIMATE” business on the residential side in the HVAC trade, not a fly-by-night operation who haven’t the slightest clue what they are doing, including not having the first clue about the business side / finance (knowing what their O/H is and what they need to charge to make a 10% NET) and have enough to grow their business and pay respectable living wages.
Today’s “COST ALONE” for a “residential” service truck, with one tech, running down the road is around $115+ per/hr, so how can the company make money when you guys here think they need to be charging 20+ years ago rates, $75-$80?
Today’s copier repair businesses charge presently around $150 per/hr with only $300 worth of tools in their carry bag. I think an electrical / plumbing / HVAC service truck has “just a few” (heavy sarcasm) more dollars in O/H and tools.
Ford dealer charges 150 per / hr labor rates.
Mercedes dealer charges $200 per / hr labor rates.
The copier guy and the dealers get to bill out 2,000 billable hours per year.
The HVAC residential side (SEASONAL BUSINESS) only gets to bill out 1,000-1,200 billable hours a year. THAT MEANS THEY HAVE TO CHARGE TWICE the rate, because they don’t have the number of billable hours to bring it down to dealership / copier rates.
$275,000 gross (1 service truck yearly gross) / 1,000 (billable hours) = $275 per / hr.
If they could bill out 2,000 billable hours it’d look like this below, but it is FINANCIALLY IMPOSSIBLE if you want to be a LEGITIMATE business.
$275,000 gross (1 service truck yearly gross) / 2,000 (billable hours) = $137.50 per / hr.
(CAN NOT WORK FINANCIALLY)
You see that? It’d be $137.50 per / hr, even IF they “could” get 2,000 billable hours…NOT $75-$80 that YOU BRAIN TRUSTS think they should be charging.
Reality is, trades never get the full 2,000 billable hours. You’re doing good if you get 1,700 billable hours in electrical, plumbing, HVAC commercial, other contracting disciplines.
But hey, keep telling everyone they need to keep “searching” for that “CHEAP GUY”,…….so you can have the job REPAIRED correctly down the road, when you have to have it done again, because it was not done right the first time, since you “brain trusts” advise people to hire a guy who works CHEAP for “beer money”.
After all………it won’t cost you “brain trusts” a dime out of your pocket down the road when it got hacked in and broke again…….will it?
And which one of you “brain trusts” thinks a guy who doesn’t have the first clue about running the financial side of his business right and billing what a LEGITIMATE business needs to grow and stay in business, which one of you thinks that cheap azz contractor, billing at beer money wages, knows the technical side good enough to do the job correctly?
Here’s the laughable part…none of you have visibly seen the job. None of you are contractors. None of you know the “SCOPE” of the job…but you “know” what needs to be charged, and not one of you would cut your pay voluntarily, yet you sit here on a public forum spouting your UNEDUCATED tripe to cut another man’s pay trying to make a living and run a LEGITIMATE business, so he can pay his men a good wage…so they can buy their sons / daughters guns and fishing rods / reels to take their sons / daughters fishing and hunting.
$1,760 is cheap to R-R a warranty residential compressor. Average is 2,200-2,500.
It’s an “all day” 8+ hour job when you add running to the supply house to get parts. It is 6-7 hours ON THE JOB “if…done…correctly”.
You seem angry. But in fairness I need to correct myself. We convert our R22 to 407C and NOT 404a or 410a. The pressures are pretty close and therefore, a cleaning of the system to get all of the 22 oil out and a new dryer are all that's necessary. (i have done this to 6 commercial Trane units, and was informed by my HVAC contractor that it can be done to residential units provided the proper steps are taken above. Any one comes to me wanting to charge me $400 dollars an hour to change out a warranty compressor will get run off. That is a 4 hour job at most. Our much larger commercial units take less than 8 hours. The rest of your "brain trust" rant is just that, a rant. None of it pertains to the op's situation at hand. He asked for an opinion and he got them. Most here don't agree with the bill. Obviously your mileage varies. Clyde
The liberal mind is an endless black hole of stupidity.
|
|
|
|
|
613 members (10gaugemag, 12344mag, 160user, 10ring1, 01Foreman400, 007FJ, 59 invisible),
2,370
guests, and
1,265
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,192,265
Posts18,486,536
Members73,967
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
