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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,317
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,317 |
AT the place I hunt we have natural gas. That feeds two heaters, a hot water heater and a stove. The main had issues and when they fixed it they inspected the houses in the area. On our place,since they couldn't get in, they padlocked the meter. Well, some of our guys went down and finding the padlock, cut it off. Then when they went down another time, finding the lock back on, cut it off too. The last time they went down they found the meter gone.
Here are the issues:
1) There is no way that place will pass inspection. with all that pipe running all over and it being so old I don't see that happening.
2) The hot water tank is not vented properly. It simply goes through the wall. But with the old place being so leaky it has never been
an issue, you never smell anything.
3) The main heater is a floor model that is about 4-1/2 feet long, 3 feet high and 20 inches deep. I don't know if it is tagged out
because it doesn't have a shutoff valve or because it does not have a control. It has a pilot but you move a valve to increase or
decrease the fire
Some of the fix is simple. Simply run a 3/4 inch line from the meter down the center of the house and take 1/2" taps off of it. All of those appliances are not going to over run a 3/4" pipe because they don't add up to the 365,000 BTU capacity.
The hot water heater, I'm not running a vent pipe up 4 stories outside the building. Change that to electric at a cost of $425.
But that heater: Did they tag it because of no shut off valve or no control. I can't see it needing a control since a gas fireplace doesn't. It's a heater not a furnace.
Thoughts? You can't smell carbon monoxide. You just die peacefully.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,941
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,941 |
Has insulation been added and the house weatherized in other ways over the years? Not many old buildings built back then did.
Heating with passive (no blowers) electric baseboard heat isn't real efficient but can do the job and best used to heat decently insulated/weatherized smaller houses with smaller rooms.
A plus of baseboard heat is each unit has a thermostat allowing control of temp for just that unit.
Depending on local utility cost though they can get expensive.
Also, unless it's already been done, you may be looking at upgrading wiring and circuit loads by switching to electric baseboard heat, too.
As always, YMMV.
Edit:The first house we bought was built in the mid-70s, had a 'passive' electric baseboard heater in each bedroom room, kitchen and living room (located on an outside wall beneath windows).
It was less than half the sq ft of the one you're dealing with now but adequately insulated and had double thermal pane windows. The kitchen and living room units were both 220v each, the bedroom units were 110 each. The water heater and cook stove were both electric, too, so our circuit panel had to be 200 amp minimum.
Last edited by joken2; 09/16/19.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,146
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,146 |
Codes vary from state to state but here locally heating with the old style free-standing type gas 'floor' heaters (as what sounds like you described) are highly discouraged at best (if allowed at all) nowadays, plus, any still heating with them are subject to possible significant homeowner's insurance premium increases or even cancellations.
Also, manufacturers of gas water heaters have had to make a bunch of federally mandated safety design changes, as well.
You may want to consider looking into doing some things different.
I'm trying to figure out why they tagged that heater out. It does not have a shut off valve on the line, I get that, but there is more. The heater has a pilot but that pilot is not controlled by a valve nor does it have a thermocouple. Codes do vary some, even from town to town if I'm not mistaken, but even Wyoming follows NFPA 58 (Outside the structure) and NFPA 54 (Inside the structure) If they at least follow those minimum codes then the heater has to have a in line shut off valve within 6 feet of the appliance, and I am sure that not having a gas control valve would be a issue. Just a fyi, as a former propane tech, Even being probably considered the red headed step child of the utilities, If they would have cut off a lockout on my or your equipment, we would have been hard pressed to do business with you again. I am of course leaving out some of the process, but I think you get my drift. All about liability.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,317
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,317 |
Has insulation been added and the house weatherized in other ways over the years? Not many old buildings built back then did.
Heating with passive (no blowers) electric baseboard heat isn't real efficient but can do the job and best used to heat decently insulated/weatherized smaller houses with smaller rooms.
A plus of baseboard heat is each unit has a thermostat allowing control of temp for just that unit.
Depending on local utility cost though they can get expensive.
Also, unless it's already been done, you may be looking at upgrading wiring and circuit loads by switching to electric baseboard heat, too.
As always, YMMV.
For slightly more money, you can get Cadet wall heaters with fans. They take up a lot less wall space but do require cutting a hole in the drywall.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,941
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,941 |
Has insulation been added and the house weatherized in other ways over the years? Not many old buildings built back then did.
Heating with passive (no blowers) electric baseboard heat isn't real efficient but can do the job and best used to heat decently insulated/weatherized smaller houses with smaller rooms.
A plus of baseboard heat is each unit has a thermostat allowing control of temp for just that unit.
Depending on local utility cost though they can get expensive.
Also, unless it's already been done, you may be looking at upgrading wiring and circuit loads by switching to electric baseboard heat, too.
As always, YMMV.
For slightly more money, you can get Cadet wall heaters with fans. They take up a lot less wall space but do require cutting a hole in the drywall. Yes, but again a lot depends on if current wiring and circuit panel would meet the demand and is up to code and how many units (since even those are essentially still localized area/room heaters) they would need to sufficiently heat the most commonly stayed in rooms.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 10,278
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 10,278 |
I put in a 250 amp panel several years ago. I think I have 6 to 7-110 15 amp circuits and one 30 amp 220 for a dryer. That is on new wire from the pole.
But it doesn't get super cold deer season usually. I'm thinking three of those oil filled heaters which are 5100 BTU's each. Two in the main room and one in the front room. I'm taking an electric blanket so I'm not worried about sleeping. I told them that, and suggested that, and one of them thinks it's funny.
I could chop out all the unnecessary runs, plug and seal them. That's easy as it can be. Then run a static pressure test. Of the many gas lines I've put in houses I've only had two fail, but barely failed. Then we could use two 30000 btu ventless heaters. not great but warm enough I'd say.
But I don't know what happens if I run a new line in either black iron or CSST. Even passing the static test would the gas company ask it it was installed by a licensed contractor? I don't know what they do there, but it is the same company here.
The older I become the more I am convinced that the voice of honor in a man's heart is the voice of GOD.
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Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 184
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 184 |
Well if you decide to heat with electric, while you're getting the inside wire up to proper standards, don't forget to call the local electric company and make sure you have the correct size transformer and service wire to your place. There's nothing like finding out the transformer and service can't supply enough to keep you warm in the middle of the first night that's cold.
When you can get the last word with an echo, you may have the last word with your wife. - Chief Joseph, Nez Perce
If goose was the only meat, there would be a lot more vegetarians. - Lloyd Adams, waterfowl hunter
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,304
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,304 |
Base board heaters are lame and take up lots of room.
King Pic A Watt wall heaters are really great.
The bigger ones need 10 gauge wire though.
I am MAGA.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,941
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,941 |
I put in a 250 amp panel several years ago. I think I have 6 to 7-110 15 amp circuits and one 30 amp 220 for a dryer. That is on new wire from the pole.
But it doesn't get super cold deer season usually. I'm thinking three of those oil filled heaters which are 5100 BTU's each. Two in the main room and one in the front room. I'm taking an electric blanket so I'm not worried about sleeping. I told them that, and suggested that, and one of them thinks it's funny.
I could chop out all the unnecessary runs, plug and seal them. That's easy as it can be. Then run a static pressure test. Of the many gas lines I've put in houses I've only had two fail, but barely failed. Then we could use two 30000 btu ventless heaters. not great but warm enough I'd say.
But I don't know what happens if I run a new line in either black iron or CSST. Even passing the static test would the gas company ask it it was installed by a licensed contractor? I don't know what they do there, but it is the same company here. I've connected gas appliances to existing gas lines many times but the last and only time I ran a new gas line myself was in the early '70s. At that time the only thing required here was it had to be all black pipe and fittings, buried a certain depth, and had to leave the entire pipe run uncovered until visually inspected and approved. No idea what's required here now. I do know our last two new gas water heaters installed by commercial seller/plumber had to be inspected and approved by a state plumbing inspector right after installation (each at a added inspection fee) but that may be different where you are. Good luck...
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