Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Gun Show Mistake?

I need some feedback from the Campfire experts here.

We had a great gunshow in Kalispell this weekend and my Dad's checkbook caught on fire. What I didn't know was, Dad then sneaked back and bought ANOTHER toy, a Winchester M1903 in 22 auto. I've just gotten it out of the solvent tank.

At first look, it looks pretty cherry, and Dad is indulging himself in all the iron he lusted after as a kid in depression western Nebraska. That's fine by me, it's his money, and I know my cousins will give these guns a good home in Nebraska when Dad is gone.

He showed me, "Ain't it nice?" "Oh, Dad, look close at the receiver flats. It's been buffed and reblued. And look at these screws on the forend, they've been hacked." Et cetera. The deeper I got into the rifle, the madder he got. Cracked stock at the tang, safety detent was a BRAD, as in nail, et cetera.

Out of the tank, I've gotten the rust and crud scrubbed off (with brass and plastic brushes) and the only thing left is to take everything back to the house and clean the barrel for real, hopefully it won't shred cleaning patches. I can fix everything, and at this point, plan on fixing or replacing all the butchered screws because this ain't no "original collector cherry" with any "value" to lose.

And no, Dad didn't get a business card or put the seller's name in his check register. He's 86, so won't recognize the guy again, either. I'm going to ask the bank to send a copy of the check back to Dad so I can ID the seller.

So my question is, did Dad get ripped off? He paid $600 for it, I would have gone no more than 400 at first look -- and now that I'm inside, no more than 300 tops. Thanks in advance for advice and suggestions.

You said at the beginning, it's his money. What's 200-300 hundred anyway??

Hopefully you can get back nice, best you can for him.

I agree. If it makes him happy, 200-300 is a pittance.

I wouldn't even tell him that you think it's not worth what he paid.

I would, however, tell others to be wary of that vendor if you ever find out his name.

Fix it up without mentioning it and make him happy.

He bought it.
Did seller hide things?
Did your dad see em?

No way to know.

Refinish the gun is about the only thing ya can do.




Slumlord
Midsouth has your .300 savage ammo in.
Dude at desk told me outta the blue on my way out the door
Forgot to call ya.

Spaced out ....
Went and got a limbsaver pad for the 220 earlier today.

I always figured a gun show was a buyer beware situation. I'd get the rifle running for him and let him enjoy it. I hope one of my sons does the same thing for me one day because I would love to be in the same situation when I'm 86.

I'd just tell him there's one for sale on Guns International for $750 right now.

Now, the description for that one is:

"Rare Winchester Model 1903 in the rare .22 auto cartridge.
Wood is excellent and barrel is 95% blue.
Receiver has turned brown.
Bore is good.
Second year production. Manufactured in 1904. "

But it would still be true, if not detailed.

Of course you could buy that one and give it to him, Would he know?

Unless he spent the rent money, why would you wanna yell at him about it?

Life is too short.

Go on Gunbroker, find one in great shape. and buy it for him.

Then, give it to him and let him be amazed at the incredible restoration work you did.

Clean it up, Fix it up, and buy him a couple of boxes of ammo for it.

https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/prod...ter-automatic-aguila-45gr-lead-nose-ammo


Life is short and he's your dad. Wish I could do something like that for mine, but he's been gone for a long time.


Jerry

Ya' know, I have two dear friends dying of cancer under age 60 and 55. I will be 58 come December. I told my wife, p huck it, I am going to have whatever I can afford and bought this a week or so ago. Went into a dermatologist today and had seven spots zapped...

If the guy has earned an ass chewing, then by all means...

Guys know wrong from right and still continuously screw people over by being shady.

My opinion is they need to at least be shot straight.

Fix it up, be happy he got something he wanted. Leave it at that.

An 86 year old went into a gun show and got took? No way!

Clean it, give it back and dont say a word. All you can do is make him worry about getting senile. Gun shows are known for being thieves bazaars

B*I*N*G*O

You are fortunate that you have your father and fortunate that you can do that for him.

I used to show off what good deals I got at gun shows. Online the gloat response I wanted was "There are no deals like that in this state".

But by about age 65 I realized my great bizsense was just screwing over weaker individuals.


Here is a morality test:
Would you offer a widow $20 for her Colt peacemaker?

Well here it is Dad, It looks like I was wrong, it turned out to be a pretty nice gun after all..........Enjoy.



Let's go shoot it.

That's a winner. Good luck.

As usual, some good advice.

Last name Harvey, perhaps?

Hey Storm, YOU didn't sell my Dad that gun, did you?

Seriously. if 600 is too high a price based on kinky salesmanship and not the actual market honestly arrived at, I can't help him if you guys can't.

I would never gloss over anything with my old man. We have never, ever given each other even the tiniest bit of ego-massaging or shaded truth to make the other feel better. I guess you could say our relationship is pretty, um, honest. And there's hell to pay when one or the other isn't.

We've already discussed the "new acquisitions," had our post-mortem after-action analysis, one clear win, one tie, and one stone loser.

As things are, I know for a fact that most of Dad's assets are going elsewhere, to my cousins, as I'm just a "step." He actually said I'm "not family." Nonetheless, if he's going to indulge, my position is, I''d rather he do it wisely. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that the bore isn't a wreck, it's soaking in Patch-Out right now.

And by the way, indulgences can be good. Three years ago, Dad dented his Accord SUV. He then, without saying a word that he'd creased the car, zoomed off to Spokane and traded it in on an Audi A8. It just was in the garage and when I went down to get some tools, there it was.

Less than a year later, he wanted to SELL the Audi with only 5000 miles on the clock. Then he realized he'd take a 30,000 bath on a perfectly good car. THEN he bought a Mercedes 295 or something SUV. And THAT is a hot rig, too. This was a special order car, right? Waited two months to get it.

We took the Merc to Cody in October, had a fantastic high-speed road trip. Then two weeks later the Merc is gone, back to the dealer in Missoula. Still have the Audi, and last weekend Dad's top speed was 109. Mine was 98.

But, how much of a hosing did he take on the 1903?

Exactly, don't ruin your dad's experience over a couple hundred bucks.

Could have got a good 63 for 600, and be shooting 22lr.

I recently saw a 1903 in rough shape but functional go for 275 locally. I heard aguila is making another batch of ammo for the 22 auto

Just let the old man be happy, your the one that madr the BIG mistake! Too late now!

Just let the old man be happy, your the one that made the BIG mistake! Too late now!

Not to be a dick or anything.


"As things are, I know for a fact that most of Dad's assets are going elsewhere, to my cousins, as I'm just a "step." He actually said I'm "not family." Nonetheless, if he's going to indulge, my position is, I''d rather he do it wisely. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that the bore isn't a wreck, it's soaking in Patch-Out right now".

You have probably done way more for the man than the cousins ever have.
And he thinks your 2nd fiddle to them?
And he has said you ain't family.
Sounds like kinda a spiteful mindset on his part for whatever reason.
I wouldnt fret much about that rifle at all or how he spends his money on whatever.
Maybe those cousins need ta invest some sweat equity in the schitt they are gonna inherit?
Dont be surprised when all these relatives show up as fast as they can when he dies and they rat fugg the estate.
I would not physically hand over one gun to any of them myself and say " here ya go, dad wanted you to have this".

JMO .
Once again not being a dick or wiseass by saying this.

Hey, not trying to change subject but anyone making ammo for Model 16 Remington these days??

Unless the seller wrote out the amount himself or made specific promises which he knew to be untrue, your dad paid what he felt the rifle to be worth at the time. If the rifle was later found to have flaws that lowered its value one should take it as a learning experience to either look it over carefully and not allow dreams to cloud one's vision or to have an objective, knowledgeable third party to look over the item also. Otherwise, the onus is on the buyer as the seller may be dishonest or it could be he is merely ignorant of what he has.

Put the shoe on the other foot- if the rifle would have been marked $400 but was all of what your dad believed it was, would he (or you) as knowledgeable buyers insisted on paying the true value or would have paid what was marked on the tag and gloated about getting a great deal off an ignorant seller?

The only way your dad has been ripped off is if the seller misrepresented the gun somehow.

Oh, no, Horse, this one was definitely a con job. Total ripoff. I was amazed when, after I pulled the carcass out of the solvent tank and oiled it down, how the pits just cover the receiver. I suspect it was well browned when the "previous owner" bought it for 25 bucks.

And yeah, Woody, I was supposed to be the third party. Yes, this is gonna be an object lesson in caveat emptor.

There's a hellacious RING in the barrel about an inch forward of the chamber. Couldn't see that for the crud in the barrel. Sure FELT it first pass with the brush. Did lapping compound, JB paste, Kroil, BP solvent, with the patches just blackened to heckandgone. Fortunately, it didn't start by shredding patches and it's actually bright now, patches just a little gray. Crown looks all right. Maybe it will shoot after all after the 22 Auto special order shows up.

I've got to figure out a way to keep the forend from self-destructing, there's a crack on to and an INCIPIENT crack started on the other side of the pushrod hole. That, and replace the BRAD that was the "safety detent." What an effing kloodge job. And I know somebody took it apart because the stock castle nut is dingleberried. This thing is an object lesson in gun butchery and gun show sleazeola. I mean, I've brought guns back from the dead, but this one was a skin job from start to finish.

I'm definitely going to have the bank send a copy of the check. If this seller is local, he's going to hear from me. This was lipstick on a pig. Maybe the smart thing to do is get ahold of Redmans and ask if it's possible to convert to 22 LR. There's no value in this junker that can be ethically pawned off on someone else. As was noted above, 275 for a "real" 1903 that had a hard life. Well, this one had a hard life, too. Backically a Yugo with a fresh Meinecke 99 dollar paint job.

Winchester mystique my @$$.

The only con I see is your dad conning himself. He either warned it bad enough that he did not look for problems or he suspected there were problems but didn't want to deal with you as he snuck back in to the show to avoid you knowing about it. Now, after getting a better look at a firearm even you initially describe as "cherry" there is now buyer's remorse and a desire to blame someone, anyone, but the one deserving the blame.

Unless the seller gave assurances as to the condition of the rifle and did not allow a chance for inspection, the seller has no blame in this. Even then, the blame is on they buyer for agreeing to such terms. Man up and admit your dad played the fool on this. In the great scheme of things it is not serious enough to bother with. Going off in a snit and trying to blame someone else for your dad's impulsive action is rather juvenile. Hopefully, your dad will learn something from this though probably not based on other comments you've made. Maybe, this is and the other incidents related are hints that your dad may need some help managing his finances. Impulsiveness was the eye opener regarding my grandmother's advancing dementia.

OH, you still didn't answer my question regarding the deal going your way. Would you have taken as much effort to track down the seller and pay him what the gun is worth if you underpaid as you claim you will believing your father has been ripped off? And what does it matter to you as it is his money (which you say he can spend as he wishes) and not something you expect or even hope to inherit? That's what gets me, becoming upset over something you claim to have no interest in. As pointed out above, this may be a godsend pointing to a more concerning issue.

I look at guns priced higher than they should be all the time.
Hell, I'm a tightass with a few rifles, shotguns, and handguns.
There isn't anything on this continent I'm not equipped to hunt, and not
with a one gun for everything scenario.

So, I'm only buying if it's cheap.
That doesn't make me a crook.
I have told quite a few unknowing types what they
could get for their guns. Cheated no one.

And your dad wasn't cheated.
He paid the agreed on price for the agreed on gun.
I have a couple here I screwed up on.
(Never buy a gun at auction that's too cheap if you haven't looked it over)

My fault.

Ah, Woodsie, think about this. It's an 86 year old guy, has the voodoo shakes, memory is going (at least short term) et cetera. Stove up, too. Precisely the sort of mark slimy sellers like to deal with. I take it you've done some sharp moves yourself?
But there's a difference between hard bargaining and hard banging.
You read wrong. The 1903 rifle was NOT a cherry, I instantly recognized it was a lipsticked oinker. The Model SIXTY ONE was a cherry. The M70 is the same, now that the old mung came off in the tank and the barrel is cleaning up nicely. Clean I can see just how little it was used, which is kind of a shame.
I'd also say that while I don't have direct skin in this game, there is the matter of, um, principle. I'm not one of those who cackles with glee because I screwed some widow out of a Peacemaker at a yard sale.
And yes, I'm going to go after this guy if I can identify him. He played my old man for a fool I'm okay if Dad indulges himself, even paying ridiculous prices for "collector" iron. But I'm not okay if he gets help screwing himself.

I should thank everyone for the feedback, which wasn't what I expected. Lesson learned: Gun shows are really shark pools, and if you're not a shark, you're CHUM. I thank you guys for making that clear.

Friend here had sort of a similar problem but multiplied with zeros.

His dad had a air fuel biz, hauling fuel to the villages and up north to the slope etc. did quite well with it in fact.

And the guy was just a marvel, he knew where every piece of equipment or parts were stashed in their entire operation, well up into his mid to late eighties.

His son took over the biz and really grew it. It’s usually ranked the 48-50th biz in Alaska.


But dad could not give up old habits, he loved going to auctions and buying stuff, for the biz.

Rob couldn’t get him to slow down on it, even w help from other family members.


He complained of having to buy more acreage to store all his dad was buying.

Said it was nothing for dad to spend 250k before lunch.

He’s gone now, but he was one of the legends in early aviation around these parts

That’s when they made men that were men. Damn what an era


And from what I can glean from what you’ve told us, if he’s trading cars that often, getting hit for $2-300 ain’t chit to him.

I’d be making sure he isn’t giving sticker price for the autos he’s buying

let him have fun with it and if he decides to sell it take it to another show and sell it.no big deal.people put stupid prices on guns all the time and someone will most always still buy them.same as a pawnshop,gunshop or auction. it happens at every show I go to.

Dave,

Sorry your Dad paid too much. It sucks.

But you are bitter, and you really shouldn't be.

Gun shows are a shark tank.
Business, any business is.
Did your dad haggle?

The guy may have put the top price on it with intent to haggle.
He may just be that guy that sees a pre-64 M70 Super Grade in New condition
sell for $ XXXX. But all he really sees is a nice M70 sell for $XXXX.
That means the M70 his dad used on the tractor should bring $XXxx at least.


We were not there. We didn't hear the conversation.
Did the guy push the gun?
Did he make claims beyond the generic "nice"?

I know a guy...
A gun show was over, he picked up a pre-Garcia Sako in 264, a user.
Number of handling marks, no terrible abuse.
Show is closing 100 mile drive home, he's not taking the time to be objective,
price is good, seller doesn't want to take it home...

At home, he notices it's been glass bedded. Big time.
Barrel channel cut 1/4 oversize, colored bedding 1/8th thick on both sides.
Then, no front sight,
then the cartridge stamping in the wrong place,
The barrel doesn't say Sako,
It does have a horsemeat stamped on the barrel.

Heartbroken, a bit pissed.

The guy never told me it was all original,
I screwed up.

$450 for that, not a good deal.

At least not in 1992.

We've already discussed the "new acquisitions," had our post-mortem after-action analysis, one clear win, one tie, and one stone loser.

So the old man broke even on deals, if not money?

Buyer beware. Always!