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Joined: Jun 2004
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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After a few firings with full power loads do the bolts on any of your rifles need a bit more pressure to close?
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Joined: Dec 2007
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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No they don't seem to I just did 40 rounds of 270 Win last night that are on their 8th loading all they have been sized is with a collet die no problem chambering them in several 270s that i have. These were Rws Factory loads and it seems to be very hard brass but do the same thing with Win. or Federal brass with no problems.
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Campfire Tracker
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Depends on how hot the load is, case design and brass hardness. A case with a lot of taper like the 220 Swift may need it every time especially if it is in a maximum sized chamber. A cartridge like the 280 AI could get close to ten rounds before needing it.
I do it every 4th loading for consistency and before it needs it. This is also when I anneal so it gives the cases a new lease on life.
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
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Joined: Aug 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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How often are you guys setting the shoulder back? I've been using that die combo for my 7mag, 6.5CM, and 7-08 and set back shoulders only when round becomes "tight" when chambering, every 3-5 loadings for my rifles. I neck size only as long as I can.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: Jul 2013
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Think I have to agree with bsa...I’m over thinking it. I’ll just FL size next time and then go back to the collet.
Craig This is what I do. Anneal before FL size, for more consistent results. But I don't have to set shoulders back very often. After about 10-12 firings. The only time I seem to use the FL sizer anymore is on once-fired stuff I acquire. I anneal every 3-4 loadings, keep pressure below 65K PSI, and will only do a full-length size on a batch if several require noticeable force to close the bolt. I have run some cases through over 25 loadings, and have only lost a couple using this method. The annealing seems to be the key. Gotta quit buying that crappy Winchester brass.
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
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Joined: Jan 2019
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Think I have to agree with bsa...I’m over thinking it. I’ll just FL size next time and then go back to the collet.
Craig Yup, do that and leave the expander ball in the FL sizer. Just try not to bump the shoulder back more than necessary. 1/8 turn of the die is the difference between not enough and too much, so some of us prefer to measure shoulder bump to get it right. I don’t have the tools to measure, so I just mark up the shoulder with a dry erase marker, and then adjust the die so that it just kisses the shoulder and removes some of the marker. On my RCBS dies, that’s just a slight 1/16 more turn. Sound about right?
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Campfire Tracker
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Think I have to agree with bsa...I’m over thinking it. I’ll just FL size next time and then go back to the collet.
Craig Yup, do that and leave the expander ball in the FL sizer. Just try not to bump the shoulder back more than necessary. 1/8 turn of the die is the difference between not enough and too much, so some of us prefer to measure shoulder bump to get it right. I don’t have the tools to measure, so I just mark up the shoulder with a dry erase marker, and then adjust the die so that it just kisses the shoulder and removes some of the marker. On my RCBS dies, that’s just a slight 1/16 more turn. Sound about right? A true 1/16 turn is about right, equivalent to .004" more shoulder bump, although it can be pretty hard to really judge 1/16 turn accurately. If you have a digital or dial caliper and a piece of fired 40 S&W or 10mm brass though, you have the tools to measure shoulder bump. Really any piece of round tubing that fits approximately in the middle of the case shoulder works for measuring shoulder bump. Zero the caliper on fired brass from your chamber, and compare the same reading on your sized brass. This pic is with a piece of .357 Mag brass, same idea. This piece of 6.5 Creedmoor brass has the shoulder bumped back .003".
Last edited by Yondering; 09/16/19.
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Joined: Aug 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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This pic is with a piece of .357 Mag brass, same idea. This piece of 6.5 Creedmoor brass has the shoulder bumped back .003". Good stuff Yondering. Thanks for the pic and great idea.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,820
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
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It works. I've been doing it and recommending it with a 40 S&W case for a long time now.
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Joined: Jan 2019
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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This pic is with a piece of .357 Mag brass, same idea. This piece of 6.5 Creedmoor brass has the shoulder bumped back .003". Good stuff Yondering. Thanks for the pic and great idea. Great idea! I love redneck engineering!
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I use a 9mm case for most of my rifle reloading.
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Joined: Oct 2014
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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It works. I've been doing it and recommending it with a 40 S&W case for a long time now. Yup. Just as a note of explanation - the 357 case was used in that example because the round had a bullet loaded, so a .40 or 10mm case is too short. An even longer case would be needed for a longer bullet though; 35 Rem, 35 Whelen, etc would work, or maybe 41 Mag. (A bud was trying to determine headspace of loaded ammo to his rifle.) I normally use a piece I machined that attaches to the caliper jaw, a lot like the Hornady tools; that's more convenient but a round piece of fired brass works too.
Last edited by Yondering; 09/17/19.
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Campfire Tracker
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.32 ACP case works pretty well for .223.
I have a .25 saved back my future .204.
'Four legs good, two legs baaaad." ---------------------------------------------- "Jimmy, some of it's magic, Some of it's tragic, But I had a good life all the way." (Jimmy Buffett)
SotG
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Campfire Member
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Rather than fiddling around adjusting dies for shoulder bumping/partial resizing or buying expensive specialty dies, just get a set of Skip’s spacers. Set up your sizing die for FL sizing then experiment with the spacers underneath the die’s lock ring. Start with a spacer thickness that won’t allow your bolt to close then gradually go down to a thickness that allows the bolt to close with a barely noticeable resistance. You can use the spacers singularity or in combination to achieve the desired thickness. This way, your never have to re-adjust your die for FL sizing when necessary and you’ve probably saved yourself a bundle of dough. Works for me.😊
What man, on his death bed, ever lamented, "God, I wish I had spent more time at the office."
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Joined: Oct 2014
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Rather than fiddling around adjusting dies for shoulder bumping/partial resizing or buying expensive specialty dies, just get a set of Skip’s spacers. Set up your sizing die for FL sizing then experiment with the spacers underneath the die’s lock ring. Start with a spacer thickness that won’t allow your bolt to close then gradually go down to a thickness that allows the bolt to close with a barely noticeable resistance. You can use the spacers singularity or in combination to achieve the desired thickness. This way, your never have to re-adjust your die for FL sizing when necessary and you’ve probably saved yourself a bundle of dough. Works for me.😊 Sounds like a whole lot of fiddling around to avoid 5 minutes of setting up the die correctly to start with. I don't know why some guys have trouble with this concept: correct shoulder bump of a few thousandths IS full length sizing.
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Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 232
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 232 |
Rather than fiddling around adjusting dies for shoulder bumping/partial resizing or buying expensive specialty dies, just get a set of Skip’s spacers. Set up your sizing die for FL sizing then experiment with the spacers underneath the die’s lock ring. Start with a spacer thickness that won’t allow your bolt to close then gradually go down to a thickness that allows the bolt to close with a barely noticeable resistance. You can use the spacers singularity or in combination to achieve the desired thickness. This way, your never have to re-adjust your die for FL sizing when necessary and you’ve probably saved yourself a bundle of dough. Works for me.😊 Sounds like a whole lot of fiddling around to avoid 5 minutes of setting up the die correctly to start with. I don't know why some guys have trouble with this concept: correct shoulder bump of a few thousandths IS full length sizing.
What man, on his death bed, ever lamented, "God, I wish I had spent more time at the office."
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Joined: Mar 2017
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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Actually the “fiddling around” is only when the proper shim is initially determined. After that there’s no more “fiddling” to be done. Just grab the pre-selected shim, drop it on the die and get to work.
What man, on his death bed, ever lamented, "God, I wish I had spent more time at the office."
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Campfire Tracker
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Why bother to use a shim at all? Just set the die up right the first time.
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Joined: Mar 2017
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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For partial sizing the die IS set up right when you use the shim. For FL sizing it IS set up right when you don’t use the shim. No die adjustment necessary. Sorry if I didn’t make that clear.
What man, on his death bed, ever lamented, "God, I wish I had spent more time at the office."
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Campfire Tracker
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What's apparently not clear to you is that bumping the shoulders back a couple thousandths IS full length sizing. It is not partial sizing. If you want to use a shim for partial sizing that works, but it's a different topic and not what we're discussing here.
Correct shoulder bump is NOT partial sizing. Partial sizing is when part of the neck is left unsized, and the shoulders are not bumped back at all.
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