Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire You call this science? 2 billion year error?

That's my opinion, and I give my rationale, but you don't want to discuss, just troll. One way you do that is change the subject to something tangential and of little consequence to the issue under discussion,

And if you knew anything about cannon law you'd know it's incredibly arcane. What Catholics need to know is in the catechism, complete with biblical citations which justify the teaching.


Yeah, no ad hominem attacks from you guys.

you have already decided others are in error, the only thing you want to discuss is conversion to your opinion
supported with convoluted explanations...an ages old catholic spin tactic.

When you first claimed ad hominem attacks there was zero basis for such, so yes you merit being called a clown.

You want convoluted explanations try Plato, a good Catholic.

Sorry you can't follow the argument when you make complex statements

So that's your example of an intellectual comment?

Folks who falsely claim ad hominem attacks are not being honest or intellectual,

act like a sad face clown , get treated like one, its that simple.

Or maybe that was your example of an intellectual argument. Worthy of G. K. Chesterton himself.

There is no evidence for a God - whatever such a thing is supposed to be - inside the Universe or out. It's nothing more than conjecture.

Here's a list of evidence I lifted from the contents of a reference Here. You may (undoubtedly will) find the evidence unconvincing but denying its existence is absurd.

THE SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE OF AN INTELLIGENT CREATOR
The Big Bang
The Borde-Vilenkin-Guth Proof
Evidence From Entropy
Something, Nothing, and Creation
Fine-Tuning

PHILOSOPHICAL EVIDENCE OF GOD
A Contemporary Thomistic Metaphysical Proof of God
A Lonerganian Proof of God

An ontological proof of a creator would eliminate the concept of free will but you don't seem to believe in that anyway. We are all driven by our environment, just like plants. And how satisfying is that.

Hilarious. The big bang, entropy, etc, says absolutely nothing about the existence of a creator, yet alone being evidence for one. The universe may be cyclic, part of a multiverse, etc, etc.

Ontology proves nothing. You can formulate an ontological argument for how many Angels can dance on a pin head for all its worth.

You're right, it's not evidence if you can invent an alternate explanation. Your honor, I move to exclude all evidence against my client as speculative and irrelevant because a space alien may have killed the victim by materializing the knife in his back from a space ship. And the entire field of Philosophy (including Logic) is of no value. All smoke and mirrors don't ya know.

Why would ontological proofn of a creator eliminate the concept of free will? I think a creator is at least a possibility, and a very interesting one at that, but don't see how that would eliminate free will.

Short answer, from the philosophy of Ethics: A person will choose what he perceives will result in a preponderance of satisfying consequences. If you had absolute knowledge of God, no doubts whatsoever, would you ever choose to do something to piss Him off with the certainty of an eternity in hell? That could not possibly lead to a preponderance of satisfying consequences and would be irrational. You would never choose to take a bite of the apple. Or not to. There would be no decision to be made.

On the other hand without perfect knowledge there's a decision to be made. Do I do something which is fun but may offend God if He exists. Or do I forego pleasure in hopes of being rewarded in heaven. Where do the preponderance of satisfying consequences lie? Could choose either way.

In a nutshell. Ethics was a 3 credit college course with prerequisites.

Nobody is claiming that there is a multiverse or that the universe is cyclic, these are put toward as possibilities, not facts. It was your claim that there is evidence for the existence of a God, citing the big bang, entropy and ontological argument as evidence....which it is not.

'Free will' first needs to be defined. The ability to make decisions is not free will. Decisions are made according to a set of criteria in relation to options that are available, a cost to benefit ratio.

The problem with that argument is that it presupposes that if there is a God, he must be the God of the Christian Bible. I'd say that even if we could prove with 100% certainty that there is a creator, we're still no closer to figuring out who or what that God might be. The possibilities are almost endless. It could be a highly advanced alien civilization that engineered this whole thing. Maybe there is one creator god but nothing like the Christian god at all.

Point being, alot of people say they don't believe God because the version of God that they are familiar with doesn't sound believable to them. I'll admit when I think of God I default to the standard western Christian God in my mind, but really there is no reason to assume that's more likely to be correct than any other, far as I can see.

don't look a day over 1 billion

xxx,

No, only requires a god of some sort. If you know this god, all powerful creator, with certainty are you going to intentionally piss him off knowing you're going to land in an eternity of unpleasantness? .That would be crazy. Since one of two paths is irrational there becomes only one path. And that is not a choice. You must obey god.

Could be Vishnu, you don't want to be eternally recycled and you would abandon materiality without having a choice.

How do you know what he does or doesn't want though, or what sort of reward/punishment system he might have? The Vikings thought the Gods wanted them to do battle for their amusement, and would be rewarded for dying in combat. For all we know, even if there is a God, that God might not really care what we do at all, might just have set the ball rolling and is sitting back to see how it plays out.

Well, one could sit down to read the book of John. Might take 4-5 sit downs. Each time, before reading, ask God to show you something.

Don’t worry about anything except the prayer, then invest some thought in what you read.