Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Winchester Collectors What's the aversion to BACO M70 Winchesters?

That's what I'm saying my friend. The cost of the ernie's spring is around $7.00. The cost of the Timney around $120.00. There's no advantage to going with the Timney. It's actually a sideways move like I said, except you unnecessarily spent $120.00 on a purchase that was not needed... What a lot of guys get out of these threads is the MOA is garbage, but a lot of us don't go into full disclosure. That's what I'm doing right now. The MOA is a great trigger. It is smooth, the pull weight can be lightened to around 2 3/8 pounds, there is very minimal creep and overtravel. What I don't like about it is it was an unnecessary modification that Browning decided to do to change the model 70 and make it more their style of rifle. I like the simplicity and ruggedness of the oldstyle trigger myself and I know others feel the same way. But for someone to assume the MOA is a horrible trigger and just replace it with a Timney, before giving it a chance, that is a big error on their part...

Could not agree more, BSA.

I own 4 EW's 264, 270WSM, 300WM, 338WM. I own 4 Super Grades, 243, 257 Roberts, Cabela's anniversary 7-08, and a 338WM All Baco's made in Portugal. I have one New Haven Classic 5 digit that started life as a 270 Win until I rebarreled it to 240 Wby. I also own 5 Pre 64's, Pre War 22 Hornet Carbine, 257 Roberts made in 1958, 30-06 Transition and two 375 H&H's One made in 1946 and the other in 1960. I don't have a problem with any of them. I use the EW's each year for hunting and have bagged many head of game. When the cross hairs are on the game, it doesn't matter what is stamped on the barrel.

No one ever mentions these possibilities...

What if, just if, the Portuguese Craftsmen are BETTER at their job in assembling and finishing the model 70 rifles, than the US gun assembler? What if "assembled in Portugal" stamped rifles are HIGHER quality than the FN-South Carolina made rifles?

There were certainly quality issues with the last few years of New Haven model 70 rifles. It is safe to write that current Portugal assembled rifles are higher quality than at least the late stage New Haven Winchester model 70 rifles, which were made and assembled in the USA, by US union workers.

Or, what if Portugal assembled rifles weren't BETTER than, but every bit the "just" EQUAL of FN-South Carolina guns? No one discusses these possibilities.

It could very well be the case. We need to be objective, not emotional.

Looks to me like most commentors on this thread have agreed, or at least not disagreed that the Portugal rifles are as good as USA rifles (with the exception of the last few years at NH) However, some don’t like the idea of an American icon being built elsewhere, and some prefer the classic trigger.

Personal choice. No right or wrong.

And sections of Boeing planes are fabricated in India.
It's a world marketplace.

Two quick notes:

1. If the OP is looking at a 7x57 I believe it'll be manufactured/assembled in South Carolina since, from what I understand, that special run was made before assembly was moved to Portugal.

2. Regarding the Ernie spring v. Timney trigger, I replaced the MOA spring with an Ernie spring and it only changed the pull by a few ounces, meaning that I was pretty well stuck at about 3 pounds either way. Instead of spending the money for the Timney - I hate the ergonomics of the trigger shoe, by the way; it's obviously made for the X-Bolt - I just took my cutters and started trimming the Ernie spring. Problem solved: extremely crisp trigger (primary MOA marketing point) at just under two pounds. The biggest pain was getting the hot glue off the adjustment screw. BACO really must not want the trigger pull messed with in spite of making it adjustable.

As for the New Haven/South Carolina v. Portugal argument, not a big issue with me. I grew up shooting A-5 Belgian Browning shotguns, and the first gas gun I ever bought was a B-2000: "Made in Belgium, Assembled in Portugal" is stamped on the barrel. At first I felt betrayed: Brownings are supposed to be made in Belgium (ironic since JB was about as American as they come), but it dropped lots of redhead, canvasback, and bluebills to a heavy load of No 5s (way before the advent of manditory non-toxic shot) just like the Belgian A-5s did. So, from a utilitarian point of view, no big deal.

But I understand the sentiment about hating to see an American icon stamped with a foreign manufacturers stamp. (BTW, wouldn't BACO itself qualify as betrayal since it's foreign-owned as well?) In my mind it's sort of like seeing an old A-5 stamped "Made in Japan" even though the Japanese guns showed better manufacturing tolerances, fit, and finish (certainly the steel was harder): it just doesn't "feel" right, which is an emotional thing. Of course, in Winchester's case, it also showcases the struggle in American manufacturing over the past fifty or sixty years - which isn't an emotional thing - but that is a completely different set of arguments.

Just my $.02.

Pardon my ignorance as I've never owned a m70. I recently bought a stainless m70 ultimate shadow from a member here. The barrel is stamped Made in the USA BACO Inc. Morgan Utah. Is this rifle assembled in Portugal as well? And what do M70 guy's think of Jewell triggers for these rifles? Thanks

That one is made in USA, as it states. A jewell trigger is a fancy sob... Really not needed on a model 70 hunting rifle...

79s brings these points up all the time.

Yep. It just depends on what you want and like.

I need all the help I can get hence really good triggers. Wish Triggertech made one for the m70, they are the cat's ass.

I was at the range today getting ready for deer season on this rather cool and blustery fall day. My M70 is a BACO / Made in USA Super Grade Featherweight limited edition in 7x57. Beautiful rifle I might add and now wears a fixed 6X x 36 Leupold scope. Shot 160gr Speer spitzers and Hornady 139gr Interlock spitzer bullets equally accurate at 100 yds. What was nice that before I left I took two shots at 200 yards with the Hornadys......they landed 1.28" apart center to center. Not bad for a stock rifle that supposedly had a bad trigger. I'll be hunting with it in November......

I also have a 1980s M70 push feed XTR Featherweight 7x57 made in the old factory. Just as accurate.....can't tell a difference accuracy-wise between the two.

Also the FN plant in South Carolina was never intended to make hunting rifles. That plant produces tools for US Army and other branches. Ie M16, M4, M249 and the numerous variations of the M240 (probably one of the finest machine guns ever built) throw on top of that there source of stocks in the US the qc was horrendous. What folks don’t know is Portugal is home to all the stock making for FN. we are talking grade 5 wood for there shotguns come out of this facility. They can control qc in house.

All good points john. One of the reasons i like the early FN Herstal SPR and PBR rifles. Those were some damn good rifles with good barrels and old style triggers and known for their accuracy. I dont think Browning had their grubby hands involved in those rifles though.

A “Model 70” without the original trigger, and made in Portugal is not a “Winchester Model 70.”

It’s something else. That’s fine, just call it something honest.

Not sure what would be wrong calling it an “FN Model 60?”

I said it a several times maybe you should of pooled up you beer drinking money and worked at deal with FN and Olin corporation so you could manufacture the model 70. Also browning was not in favor of the assembly in Portugal. They said Americans don’t take well to something iconic like the model 70 being assembled outside the US. But FN thought otherwise reason I guess Europeans don’t have that emotional tie with a product due to everything over there being made everywhere. Also the individual who runs the Portugal plant is thought of very highly within FN and pushed for this. But people will still continue to bitch about it I guess..

While some may balk at the Win 70 being made in Portugal, those that I have used had better fit and finish than those from South Carolina. While us old dogs care, the younger crowd doesn't have that affinity established.

A lot of these comments remind me of a discussion my father and uncle had in the late 60s or very early 70s. My uncle had a pretty good collection of pre-64 M70s, and he was adamant that the post-64 rifles absolutely were not M70s. "It's not a bad rifle, but it isn't a Model 70. The should call it something else." Fifty years later, "It's not a bad rifle, but it isn't a Model 70. They should call it something else."

Evidently time truly is cyclical.

Rev: In 1962 my dad told me he would buy me my own deer rifle. He and Mom had M70s. I did some research and told him I wanted a M70 FWT in 30/06. The guy at the Gun shop convinced him that M 70 quality was going down and Remingtons brand new M 700 was far superior. So I got a 30/06 M700 with a 20” barrel that kicked like a mule. But I recall the same conversations that the “new” M70s weren’t really M70s and should be given a different name.

the more things change...